Ravindra Jadeja v MS Dhoni as test batsmen

[Majestic]

18 minutes ago, Gollum said:

That's a rhetorical question, don't deny. 

 

Great thread btw

 

And what's wrong with a question being asked? There is difference in asking a question and saying that I believe it is true. I understand you are probably triggered with my post and having hard time so just trying to find out something to attack. But let's stick to the actual discussion which is about Ashwin, no standout performance from Ashwin in SENA?

[Gollum]

2 minutes ago, Majestic said:

And what's wrong with a question being asked? There is difference in asking a question and saying that I believe it is true. I understand you are probably triggered with my post and having hard time so just trying to find out something to attack. But let's stick to the actual discussion which is about Ashwin, no standout performance from Ashwin in SENA?

Go and annoy someone else. 

[Majestic]

15 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

The recent Bangladesh test was won cos...

 

Jaddu scored 86

Pant 100

Gill 100

Bumrah picked 4 wickets in the first innings

 

Lame ass Ashwin couldn't even pick up a single wicket in the first innings.

 

Took a 5fer in second innings but Jaddu got a 3fer too. Plus Bangladesh had practically given up by that time.

 

Yes he scored 100 but Jaddu did just as well.

 

He was just one among the many performers.

 

Not a standout performance. Stupid experts gave him the MOM. It should have been shared among 4 other players.

 

If you doubt it, reach out to me and I will spoonfeed you.

 

#MajesticLogic

 

I think it's time you should be awarded the most "unsensible" Indian fan award for consistently embarassing yourself by failing to respond to a single argument being put against Ashwin.

 

You are sounding as much of a perennial loser as Ashwin sounded when he toured South Africa last time around or when he was shown doors during the England tour for his awful performance overseas. 

[sensible-indian]

57 minutes ago, Majestic said:

I think it's time you should be awarded the most "unsensible" Indian fan award for consistently embarassing yourself by failing to respond to a single argument being put against Ashwin.

 

You are sounding as much of a perennial loser as Ashwin sounded when he toured South Africa last time around or when he was shown doors during the England tour for his awful performance overseas. 

Why u no like me?

 

Why u call me a loser?

 

I literally used your OWN logic.

 

Let's go over my post again:

 

------------

 

The recent Bangladesh test was won cos...

 

Jaddu scored 86

Pant 100

Gill 100

Bumrah picked 4 wickets in the first innings

 

Lame ass Ashwin couldn't even pick up a single wicket in the first innings.

 

Took a 5fer in second innings but Jaddu got a 3fer too. Plus Bangladesh had practically given up by that time.

 

Yes he scored 100 but Jaddu did just as well.

 

He was just one among the many performers.

 

Not a standout performance. Stupid experts gave him the MOM. It should have been shared among 4 other players.

 

If you doubt it, reach out to me and I will spoonfeed you.

 

#MajesticLogic

 

 

----

 

I have literally MIRRORED your exact logic from BGT 2020.

 

Down to the very last bit. 

 

It's your words bro. Not mine.

 

If you don't like it:

 

#MajesticHatesMajestic

[sensible-indian]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

Me too old for these games

Haha I get you.

 

Sometimes, its fun. Most times, its not.

 

[Majestic]

@sensible-indian, no you didn't used the correct logic here because Jadeja was second best performer after Ashwin. Ashwin hit a very convincing 100 and a 5-fer and was undoubtedly the standout performer in that game something neither of which he has managed in SENA conditions. Neither a ton or 5-fer. That's a huge blemish for a guy who picks 5-fers and hit tons for fun in India.

 

You continuously fail to provide your explanation and just going in circles. Now, if you are still interested, anwer these questions?

 

Which one do you think was Ashwin's standout performance in that Australia's series? 

 

Edited September 26, 2024 by Majestic

[sensible-indian]

2 hours ago, Majestic said:

@sensible-indian, no you didn't used the correct logic here because Jadeja was second best performer after Ashwin. Ashwin hit a very convincing 100 and a 5-fer and was undoubtedly the standout performer in that game something neither of which he has managed in SENA conditions. Neither a ton or 5-fer. That's a huge blemish for a guy who picks 5-fers and hit tons for fun in India.

 

You continuously fail to provide your explanation and just going in circles. Now, if you are still interested, anwer these questions?

 

Which one do you think was Ashwin's standout performance in that Australia's series? How smart consistently skipping this question.

 

 

Oh yes i used the correct logic.

 

You dont tally up the runs and wickets to find the impact.

 

Even if Ashwin hadn't got a 5fer...he would have got the MOM (inspite of 2 others scoring 100)....cos such was the impact of his 100.

 

Those runs at that rate of scoring simply took the momentum away from Bangladesh.

 

That was the biggest blow which is why he got the MOM.

 

---

 

Ashwin's biggest impact in Aus was his performance in Melbourne 1st innings...that early spell that played a pivotal role in restricting Aus to a super below total...

 

And it completely set the tone for the match..

 

Yes Rahane scored a beautiful 100 and got MOM (deservedly) but Ashwin was close behind in performance.

 

Why do you think Ashwin has more Man of the series awards than man of the match awards?

 

Cos he would be among the top 2-3 performers in each test but overall in a  series, his impact would be the highest so he would get the MOS.

 

Thats what happ in Aus until Syndey test.

 

But again...people like you who can only run a statfilter won't understand.

 

So i am waiting for the next #MajesticGem 

 

Edited September 26, 2024 by sensible-indian

[Majestic]

Ashwin performed well in one session. Test matches are won by consistently performing over the test match not one session performance. Ashwin does it quite admirably in India and other lower tier nations but not even once he has done it in SENA.

 

If the match in which Ashwin made biggest impact in SENA is Melbourne 2020, then sadly this was the match where standout performers were Rahane, Bumrah and Jadeja. Siraj and Ashwin are closing at 4th and 5th spot.

 

 

Edited September 26, 2024 by Majestic

[vvvslaxman]

Just remember this without MSD there is no Jaddu lol Whole ICF were trolling them like they were a couple for a close to a decade. 

[vvvslaxman]

26 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Ashwin performed well in one session. Test matches are won by consistently performing over the test match not one session performance. Ashwin does it quite admirably in India and other lower tier nations but not even once he has done it in SENA.

 

If the match in which Ashwin made biggest impact in SENA is Melbourne 2020, then sadly this was the match where standout performers were Rahane, Bumrah and Jadeja. Siraj and Ashwin are closing at 4th and 5th spot.

 

 

 

He is a no.8 batsman. More often than not he will be in a position where he has to throw kitchen sink as he is likely to find a bunch of tailenders at the other end. Record of even established batsmen is goign to be poor if he bats at that position in SENA. He has played only 25 tests in SENA. out of the 49 innings 39 times he batted at no.8 or no.9. So his role has to be viewed with different context.  At home he gets company even when he bats at 8.  He was doing okay until he picked up a side strain after which he failed with bat everywhere for a while.

 

[sensible-indian]

2 hours ago, Majestic said:

Ashwin performed well in one session. Test matches are won by consistently performing over the test match not one session performance. Ashwin does it quite admirably in India and other lower tier nations but not even once he has done it in SENA.

 

If the match in which Ashwin made biggest impact in SENA is Melbourne 2020, then sadly this was the match where standout performers were Rahane, Bumrah and Jadeja. Siraj and Ashwin are closing at 4th and 5th spot.

 

 

 

lol

 

There you go.

 

That #MajesticGem I was looking for.

 

You don't disappoint bhai.

 

Calculating performance across number of sessions instead of IMPACT is a classic Majestic move. 

 

Take for example, the legendary 2021 Oval test where Bumrah won it bowling on a dead pitch in the 4th innings...

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/india-tour-of-england-2021-2022-1239527/england-vs-india-4th-test-1239546/full-scorecard

 

Guess how many wickets he took in the last innings?

 

Just 2.

 

First innings 2. Second innings 2.

 

Umesh Yadav took 3 wickets in each innings.

 

Rohit Sharma was the MOM.

 

Yet Bumrah was BY FAR the most talked guy after that test.

Cos it was his spell that completely broke England's back and destroyed their chase on a pitch that had gone dead.

 

I guess he was not a standout performer cos he just performed in 1-2 sessions and took a measly 4 wickets in the whole game 

 

----

 

Anyhoo...

 

I won't blame you too much.

 

I have seen a few otherwise smart posters over the years behave the same way as you.

 

Its just that you guys can't comprehend reality outside of numbers and black/white stats.

 

Data & stats are knowledge.

 

Interpretation is where the magic happens. That's where the insight & wisdom lies.

 

Good night, my friend.

 

 

.

Edited September 26, 2024 by sensible-indian

[Majestic]

4 hours ago, sensible-indian said:

 

lol

 

There you go.

 

That #MajesticGem I was looking for.

 

You don't disappoint bhai.

 

Calculating performance across number of sessions instead of IMPACT is a classic Majestic move. 

 

Take for example, the legendary 2021 Oval test where Bumrah won it bowling on a dead pitch in the 4th innings...

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/india-tour-of-england-2021-2022-1239527/england-vs-india-4th-test-1239546/full-scorecard

 

Guess how many wickets he took in the last innings?

 

Just 2.

 

First innings 2. Second innings 2.

 

Umesh Yadav took 3 wickets in each innings.

 

Rohit Sharma was the MOM.

 

Yet Bumrah was BY FAR the most talked guy after that test.

Cos it was his spell that completely broke England's back and destroyed their chase on a pitch that had gone dead.

 

I guess he was not a standout performer cos he just performed in 1-2 sessions and took a measly 4 wickets in the whole game 

 

----

 

Anyhoo...

 

I won't blame you too much.

 

I have seen a few otherwise smart posters over the years behave the same way as you.

 

Its just that you guys can't comprehend reality outside of numbers and black/white stats.

 

Data & stats are knowledge.

 

Interpretation is where the magic happens. That's where the insight & wisdom lies.

 

Good night, my friend.

 

 

.

Not really buddy. Impact is key but in a Test match, a short spell or few quick wickets does not necessarily win you a game. You don't win a test match by winning one session.

 

Australia got bowled out at 189 due to combination of all bowlers picking wickets regularly. Ashwin got Smith's wicket and it was well planned like he did in Adelaide but otherwise the performances of Bumrah and Siraj were the reasons Australia got bowled out under 200.

[Majestic]

6 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

He is a no.8 batsman. More often than not he will be in a position where he has to throw kitchen sink as he is likely to find a bunch of tailenders at the other end. Record of even established batsmen is goign to be poor if he bats at that position in SENA. He has played only 25 tests in SENA. out of the 49 innings 39 times he batted at no.8 or no.9. So his role has to be viewed with different context.  At home he gets company even when he bats at 8.  He was doing okay until he picked up a side strain after which he failed with bat everywhere for a while.

 

He is clearly way more talented than a no.8 batsman and if he would have maximised his potential, he would have been averaging 30+ with multiple 50s overseas. He got tons in West Indies back in 2016 when he was batting at #6. Saha was batting at 7 while Jadeja at 8 for a short period.

[R!TTER]

He's batted 40 tests in top 7, almost 40% of all games. It's a joke to claim he didn't get enough chances to bat at the top or because he bats at 8 he's not scored as many 

 

Batting position between 1 and 7

Ordered by default (ascending)

Career averages

	Span	Mat	Runs	HS	Bat Av	100	Wkts	BBI	Bowl Av	5	Ct	St	Ave Diff
unfiltered	2011-2024	101	3422	124	26.94	6	522	7/59	23.70	37	33	0	3.24
filtered	2015-2023	40	1100	118	26.19	2	-	-	-	-	-	-	-

Career summary

Grouping	Span	Mat	Runs	HS	Bat Av	100	Wkts	BBI	Bowl Av	5	Ct	St	Ave Diff
v Afghanistan	2018-2018	1	-	-	-	-	5	4/27	11.80	0	0	0	-
v Australia	2011-2023	22	111	39*	18.50	0	114	7/103	28.36	7	9	0	-9.86
v Bangladesh	2015-2024	7	36	34	36.00	0	29	6/88	25.27	2	1	0	10.72
v England	2012-2024	24	362	72	32.90	0	114	6/55	27.72	8	6	0	5.18
v New Zealand	2012-2021	9	103	40	20.60	0	66	7/59	15.43	6	5	0	5.16
v South Africa	2013-2023	14	95	46	11.87	0	57	7/66	22.28	5	4	0	-10.40
v Sri Lanka	2015-2022	11	159	54	19.87	0	62	6/46	21.93	3	4	0	-2.06
v West Indies	2011-2023	13	234	118	78.00	2	75	7/71	20.48	6	4	0	57.52

 

 

His issue, among say others like fitness, is that his batting went down as his bowling got better. Kinda reverse of Pathan, whether it was because he focused more on bowling or anything else is just a matter of speculation.

[vvvslaxman]

This was about SENA stats. Since we are only talking about SENA stats. In SENA he batted mostly at 8.

[vvvslaxman]

2 hours ago, Majestic said:

He is clearly way more talented than a no.8 batsman and if he would have maximised his potential, he would have been averaging 30+ with multiple 50s overseas. He got tons in West Indies back in 2016 when he was batting at #6. Saha was batting at 7 while Jadeja at 8 for a short period.

 

When he started his career nobody expected him to score centuries. He never had 3 triple hundreds in domestic. He batted down the order in domestic. His opening batting was mostly at divisional level.   But  he has this gifted timing like Laxman does. He can produce an innings that any pedigree batsman would be proud of. Even though with his bowling numbers he never had to bat well he did it anyway.  Instead of appreciating someone who goes out of his way to contributing to the team we find holes in the biggest match winner for India. He got 369 wickets in winning matches. That is the most for any Indian by some distance. 

[The Hound]

MS DHONI in Tests in England:

India 334/5 & he scored 92(81)
India 178/4 & he scored 82(152)
India 28/4 & he scored 82(140)
India 92/5 & he scored 77(96)
India 145/5 & he scored 76*(159)
India 87/5 & he scored 74*(69)
India 8/4 & he scored 71(133)
India 210/5 & he scored 50(113)… pic.twitter.com/Z0MFQsYuA3

— Johns. (@CricCrazyJohns) July 7, 2024

 

Simple answer, the most successful indian test batsman at a place where Anderson, Broad & Company use to swallow the entire top order with ease. The real man of crisis 

[vvvslaxman]

2 hours ago, The Hound said:

 

Simple answer, the most successful indian test batsman at a place where Anderson, Broad & Company use to swallow the entire top order with ease. The real man of crisis 

 

Sometime back i shared a stat on how each Indian batsmen did well against Anderson. MSD was somewhere at the top in one on one encounter.

 

MSD vs Jimmy in England

 

407 balls 242 runs 60.5 avge   

 

[Trichromatic]

2 hours ago, The Hound said:

 

Simple answer, the most successful indian test batsman at a place where Anderson, Broad & Company use to swallow the entire top order with ease. The real man of crisis 

 

Not to discredit, but England in general is a place where lower middle order can create impact once ball loses shine and swing dies.

[vvvslaxman]

You have to split Jadeja's career into two halves. He dramatically improved his stat post 2019. 

 

Till 2018

 

AWAY - 12 tests 482 runs  26.77 avge  3 fifties. 

HOME - 28 tests 922 runs 34.14 avge 1 century 6 fifties

 

After 2019 

 

AWAY  - 16 tests 730 runs 36.50 avge 1 century 5 fifties

HOME - 18 tests 988 runs 49.40 avge 2 centuries 7 fifties