India 179-178

[rollingstoned]

27 minutes ago, Gollum said:

India haven't played Pak since 2007, Zim since 2005.

 

Hardly play WI these days (unlike say Eng), they will tour India for 2 tests next year, after a gap of 7 years. Anyway WI has been in decline for 2+ decades, at least few in this generation care about test cricket and work with WICB, not against, hence a few wins like in Eng, Aus, UAE (when Pak was much better) etc, something they could never do before that.

 

SL was more than decent till circa 2017 (Herath's last year IIRC), they had Sanga still playing when we beat them in 2015 (also peak Mathews and Herath), they later went on to whitewash Aussies at home, created history in RSA. Anyway we haven't played tests in Lanka since 2017, they have played 3 tests in India since 2013, one which was badly rain affected, the other smog affected.

 

We have improved our record by farming SENA countries. 

Much to our detriment it must be said, this record would look a lot different if we were playing 3-4 test series against these teams which were supposed to be very good 2 decades ago like we are being told. Padosis would not still have the h2h record to brag about.

OTOH we are playing long test series home and away against Australia and England where the chance that we will not win a game is much higher even at home.

 

 

[mani sha]

People forget India was a poor bowling team till Kapil came in . 
We became a decent test team at home since kapil came in .. 

with srinath and Zaheer we started winning a few matches abroad too but not consistently. 
 

With bumrah Shami Ishant and yadav , we finally got a pace quartet who could win us matches abroad.  Their rise coincided with jadeja ashwin rise - second and third greatest all rounders along with Dhoni and pant - great wkt keeping batsmen who helped India win several matches both home and abroad ( pant in particular ) 

 

 

key to winning is bowling and bowling all rounders coupled with aggressive opening batsmen - Sehwag , sharma , gambhir m vijay etc helped us a lot too over last 10 years 

 

Heron , it will only improve over next 20 years . Test cricket won’t die but will have mainly 3-4 nations on top and smaller nations will loose appetite for tests as t20 brings more monies 

[Ultimate_Game]

4 hours ago, mani sha said:

People forget India was a poor bowling team till Kapil came in . 
We became a decent test team at home since kapil came in .. 

with srinath and Zaheer we started winning a few matches abroad too but not consistently. 
 

With bumrah Shami Ishant and yadav , we finally got a pace quartet who could win us matches abroad.  Their rise coincided with jadeja ashwin rise - second and third greatest all rounders along with Dhoni and pant - great wkt keeping batsmen who helped India win several matches both home and abroad ( pant in particular ) 

 

 

key to winning is bowling and bowling all rounders coupled with aggressive opening batsmen - Sehwag , sharma , gambhir m vijay etc helped us a lot too over last 10 years 

 

Heron , it will only improve over next 20 years . Test cricket won’t die but will have mainly 3-4 nations on top and smaller nations will loose appetite for tests as t20 brings more monies 

 

Bowling wins you matches as they always keep you in the game. Would always take a Bumrah over say a Rohit or a Kohli. Every great team had great bowling - be it WI in 80s or Aus in 90s and early 90s. India had one of the best batting lineups in history in Sehwag, Dravid, SRT, Ganguly, VVS but we didn't win shyte away as we didn't have the bowling. It proves that a champion bowling unit will win you much more than star batsmen.

[BlueBlood]

8 hours ago, sensible-indian said:

I agree 

 

We should not celebrate any wins cos other teams got weaker.

 

Never mind the fact that we havent lost a home series in 12 years and we are gonna make WTC finals 3 times in a row...and we did it once beating an ATG Aussie attack in 2020.

 

But we should celebrate the great WI team of 80s who ruled the world when:

 

1. Sa was not allowed to play

2. India was a mid team

3. SL was a minnow

4. Aus was in transition and had a weak era (Border had to rebuild their side)

5. Eng was well...Eng

 

That time...we should not look at opponents.

 

How dare we?

 

They are legends.

 

Sooner we accept they are legends and our wins are simply due to circumstances...the better it is for all of us.

 

Totally with you.

 

The issue here is England, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa were unbeatable at home. Since T20 leagues have come, most of their focus has gone to that and other sports.

 

Even Sri Lanka gave England at home a run for their money recently until they cheated with ball change. 

 

Same with Pakistan which came pretty close to beating at home in England.

 

It's sad these days that any sort of honesty is denigrated as anti-patriotic.

 

The fact remains that other teams have regressed. During Shane Bond and Chris Cairns era, New Zealand were unbeatable at home except against ATG Australia team. Now even Afghanistan on their day can beat NZ at home.

 

Same could be said of South Africa. They have regressed badly over the past decade once Steyn, Kallis etc. Retired.

 

It's sad we have a revisionist history where old legends like Kumble who punched way above their weight are forgotten for the likes of Ashwin/Jadeja who have it way too easy with doctored home pitches and inferior oppositions playing against them.

 

The same Ashwin was trying to bowl leg spin once Kuldeep and Chahal were wrecking havoc. Kumble never had to do that. People forget history soo easily.

 

This is why BCCI can keep milking money as people have such short term memory and any criticism is hated on as anti patriotic.

[deathmonger]

8 hours ago, Gollum said:

Aus still great but marginally down from 2000s, still a beast in ICC events. 

 

Eng way better than 90s  and early 00s self, behind 2008-12 team, but good.

 

NZ golden generation, all time NZ XI will have at least 6 players from post 2010 teams

 

RSA down but not out, still scary team in their home conditions. No RSA before 1992, people should remember.

 

WI around the same level for last 20 years, but this squad has more committed players.

 

SL like in late 80s and early 90s, but better overseas because of quicks. Were in golden phase till around 2017-18 but many talented youngsters couldn't sustain.

 

Pak declined in last 5 years, but had one of their strongest ever teams from 2012 till 2017-18 when prime/peak Misbah, Younis, Azhar Ali, Sarfraz, Yasir Shah etc. were still around. 

 

India much better now, ask other fanbases. 

 

Competition has been same for last half a century at least, only that we were piss poor in 80s and 90s and hence tend to overrate those eras. People don't know how weak Aussies were in 80s, or how NZ was just one man army.....if 80s had WI, Pak, Eng this era has Ind, Aus, NZ, Eng. 

80s Eng was also poor.

 

80s WI was best, Pak 2nd, Hadlee NZ 3rd

[deathmonger]

37 minutes ago, BlueBlood said:

 

The issue here is England, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa were unbeatable at home. Since T20 leagues have come, most of their focus has gone to that and other sports.

 

Even Sri Lanka gave England at home a run for their money recently until they cheated with ball change. 

 

Same with Pakistan which came pretty close to beating at home in England.

 

It's sad these days that any sort of honesty is denigrated as anti-patriotic.

 

The fact remains that other teams have regressed. During Shane Bond and Chris Cairns era, New Zealand were unbeatable at home except against ATG Australia team. Now even Afghanistan on their day can beat NZ at home.

 

Same could be said of South Africa. They have regressed badly over the past decade once Steyn, Kallis etc. Retired.

 

It's sad we have a revisionist history where old legends like Kumble who punched way above their weight are forgotten for the likes of Ashwin/Jadeja who have it way too easy with doctored home pitches and inferior oppositions playing against them.

 

The same Ashwin was trying to bowl leg spin once Kuldeep and Chahal were wrecking havoc. Kumble never had to do that. People forget history soo easily.

 

This is why BCCI can keep milking money as people have such short term memory and any criticism is hated on as anti patriotic.

Lol.

 

Eng has lost one home series since 2014.

 

Yeah, Eng was "unbeatable" at home during the 80s,90s,00s lol.

 

Even SA lost at home to England and Aus quite often even during glory days.

 

NZ were also poor at home during 90s-00s. "Shane Bond era" lasted like 2-3 years lol.

 

They are still very strong at home, losing only to Aus in the last 10-12 years. Let Afghanistan win a test then we'll say.

 

Australia still has lost only the two India series in the past few years.

 

There is no "inferior" opposition. It is India which has become better.

 

Like I said the view is very different from the top than in the middle.

 

This is just nostalgia speaking. India had a FEW good players back in the day so their halo effect is magnified. Players like Umesh, Dhawan, Chahal who are decentish would have had the same halo effect if they played back in the day.

 

Ashwin HAD Chahal/Kuldeep to wreck havoc. Kumble never did.

 

 

[Gollum]

2 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

It's sad these days that any sort of honesty is denigrated as anti-patriotic.

Buddy, you have a point.

 

But doing disappearing act (or worse.....feeling sad/angry/frustrated) when India does well in something, making appearances to gloat when India fails at something, downplaying Indian achievers whilst overrating non-Indians. What do you call that? Honesty or patriotism? 

 

Anyway carry on, but please don't pass judgement on other posters here, most of who come here to pass time. 

Edited September 23 by Gollum

[Gollum]

Shane Bond played 18 tests in all, just a couple of tests in SC (Lanka) where he made zero impact.....sure he had an era. 

[BlueBlood]

3 hours ago, Gollum said:

Buddy, you have a point.

 

But doing disappearing act (or worse.....feeling sad/angry/frustrated) when India does well in something, making appearances to gloat when India fails at something, downplaying Indian achievers whilst overrating non-Indians. What do you call that? Honesty or patriotism? 

 

Anyway carry on, but please don't pass judgement on other posters here, most of who come here to pass time. 

Again, Ashwin who was trying to bowl legspin to "keep up" is now suddenly considered ATG above Kumble. 

 

What changed is not Ashwin getting 10x better. It's the teams have regressed with England relying on Root and Australia on Smith once Warner regressed.

 

You cannot compare to the competition Kumble faced.

 

The only real ATG in the team today is Bumrah. Had he existed during Kumble era, it would have made a huge difference. Especially as our batting was super strong.

 

But people elevate guys like Ashwin/Jadeja who went missing in entire SENA tournaments during Dhoni era. Are we to believe these guys suddenly became 10x better now in the final stages of their career compared to their prime years?

 

It's simple other teams have greatly regressed to the point where any team in the top 5 can beat England or Aus at home now if they play to their potential and handle pressure situations.

 

It was never the case pre-IPL and T20 hype. Look at WI, SA, Aus, NZ etc. Players playing all types of T20 leagues. No way they have the energy or interest to succeed in tests. 

 

This is just the case with cricket now unfortunately. Even last T20 WC we didn't even get a chance to play against WI, New Zealand, Sri Lanka just to fit in a potential semi clash against Pakistan.

 

This type of stuff is where the underlying problem is. The old legends didn't have this kind of advantage stacked in their favor. 

[deathmonger]

9 minutes ago, BlueBlood said:

Again, Ashwin who was trying to bowl legspin to "keep up" is now suddenly considered ATG above Kumble. 

 

What changed is not Ashwin getting 10x better. It's the teams have regressed with England relying on Root and Australia on Smith once Warner regressed.

 

You cannot compare to the competition Kumble faced.

 

The only real ATG in the team today is Bumrah. Had he existed during Kumble era, it would have made a huge difference. Especially as our batting was super strong.

 

But people elevate guys like Ashwin/Jadeja who went missing in entire SENA tournaments during Dhoni era. Are we to believe these guys suddenly became 10x better now in the final stages of their career compared to their prime years?

 

It's simple other teams have greatly regressed to the point where any team in the top 5 can beat England or Aus at home now if they play to their potential and handle pressure situations.

 

It was never the case pre-IPL and T20 hype. Look at WI, SA, Aus, NZ etc. Players playing all types of T20 leagues. No way they have the energy or interest to succeed in tests. 

 

This is just the case with cricket now unfortunately. Even last T20 WC we didn't even get a chance to play against WI, New Zealand, Sri Lanka just to fit in a potential semi clash against Pakistan.

 

This type of stuff is where the underlying problem is. The old legends didn't have this kind of advantage stacked in their favor. 

Last T20 WC we defeated Aus, Eng, SA in a row. NZ, WI, SL are way inferior to them lol.

 

England during Kumble's time sucked. This England is way better (if not the 09-12 team which Kumble didn't face either).

 

NZ, Bang are also way stronger than during Kumble's time.

 

Yeah, Ashwin/Jadeja didn't become better SUDDENLY, but they became better as cricketers are wont to do. Ashwin-Jadeja were 25/27 when Dhoni retired.

 

They were NOT in their PRIME during Dhoni era. Their PRIME was in the Kohli era.

 

Post that they have become better and both contributed to the two wins in Aus in 18/20.

 

Any team in the top 5 can beat England/Aus at home - Only Ind has won a series in Aus in the last 8 years and NZ in the last 10 years. There have been matches won/series drawn but that was there in Kumble's period too (Aus was way stronger but Eng dropped plenty of home series that time).

 

 

[BlueBlood]

12 hours ago, deathmonger said:

Last T20 WC we defeated Aus, Eng, SA in a row. NZ, WI, SL are way inferior to them lol.

 

England during Kumble's time sucked. This England is way better (if not the 09-12 team which Kumble didn't face either).

 

NZ, Bang are also way stronger than during Kumble's time.

 

Yeah, Ashwin/Jadeja didn't become better SUDDENLY, but they became better as cricketers are wont to do. Ashwin-Jadeja were 25/27 when Dhoni retired.

 

They were NOT in their PRIME during Dhoni era. Their PRIME was in the Kohli era.

 

Post that they have become better and both contributed to the two wins in Aus in 18/20.

 

Any team in the top 5 can beat England/Aus at home - Only Ind has won a series in Aus in the last 8 years and NZ in the last 10 years. There have been matches won/series drawn but that was there in Kumble's period too (Aus was way stronger but Eng dropped plenty of home series that time).

 

 

 

Not everything can be explained with stats. Anyone who watches cricket closely knows they are meaningless when Sri Lanka would have won in England if not for ball changes and other sheningans that greatly benefited them.

 

So your point about England being stronger is ridiculous. They were still trudging along a 40 year old Anderson and Broad who was way past his prime. Their spin is complete garbage where Lyon is miles better than anything England produced in the last 15 years.

 

And don't even get me started on complete pitch tampering favoring home side that started with Kohli and continued since. 

 

The current Australia, England, South Africa and New Zealand teams are a C grade team compared to the past. This is undeniable as they have struggled to win in India and Sri Lanka pitches that favor spin. 

 

It's absolutely silly to argue over this just to "feel good and superior". Tell me one team in the world right now who can beat India at home in spin friendly tracks? Or tell me one team in the world right now who has a batsman who can regularly churn out double or triple centuries like Lara, Warner, Heyden, Ponting, Sanga etc could in their prime.

 

It's an undeniable fact that teams have regressed. You can see the trajectory clearly post IPL and other T20 leagues. To say otherwise is absolute brainwashing of facts. 

 

South Africa hasn't produced another Klusener or Kallis. Their best batsmen are all T20 players like Markram. Their true technical talent Rilee is playing the Carribean leagues right now.

 

Denigrating the real challenges Sachin, Kumble, Ganguly etc. faced against hostile oppositions around the world is inexcusable and foolish. 

 

There is no way Rohit, Kohli, Pujara, Rahane and Rahul would have survived the onslaught of Alan Donald, Pollack, Kallis, De Villiers. Or McGrath, Brett Lee, Gillespie, Warne. Or the England side in 2004 that beat Australia after a long time. Or even the Sri Lankan side under Murali in his prime.

 

These are facts that someone who watched cricket from the late 80's like me would know.

[putrevus]

Some morons just have no clue.What great competition Kumble faced and did well which Ashwin did not do .

 

Ashwin is 100 times better bowler than Kumble ever was plus the batting puts Ashwin in a stratosphere which Kumble does not belong.

 

Kumble was a medium pacer disguised as a leg spinner who got carted around in almost every country.He was feeding on uneven wickets in home pitches.

 

Ashwin bowling leg spin is a tribute to Ashwin trying to do something to pickup wickets. Kumble bowled seam up in Bangalore test in 2007 against Pakistan.

 

 

These morons who are talking about Kumble are sounding exactly like some older idiots few years ago who were talking up the spin quartet .

 

Ashwin and Jadeja were chief Architects for India winning CT 2013.

 

What great things Kumble did in SENA again in any format.

 

Edited September 24 by putrevus

[BlueBlood]

Yeah we saw what Ashwin/Jadeja did in SENA all through Dhoni captaincy until Bumrah came along.

 

The lone win was due to Ishant Sharma in England. 

 

Stop with this nonsensical brainwashed stupidity.

 

Dhoni's singular downfall in SENA like the 0-5 dubbings were because he persisted with these two. 

 

It wasn't until Bumrah came along and prime Kohli did we start winning in SENA.

 

How funny that suddenly the Ashwin who was discarded once Kuldeep and Chabal came along and went back to domestics to bowl legspin is considered ATG above Kumble just because he has super helpful home conditions and Bumrah, Pant to back him up. 

 

How easily people forget when the same losers today were calling Jadeja malnourished and Ashwin as lethargic and not meant for modern day cricket due to his poor fielding skills. Remember the time when Ashwin had a fight with Kohli because of this due to Kohli making a fuss about setting high fielding standards?

 

The brainwashed fools is exactly what BCCI wants as you have the memory of a fish. As long as you dominate hapless minnows like Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and regressed teams who don't even take tests seriously, everything is fine LOL.

[Vilander]

Congrats everyone 

 

179-178 Win-Loss record for India in their 92-year old Test cricket journey. This is the first time they have had the number of wins exceeding the number of defeats. In their 580th Test, India became the seventh team to achieve the feat after Australia (Inaugural Test), Afghanistan (third Test), Pakistan (16th), England (23rd), West Indies (99th), and South Africa (340th). New Zealand, Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe, Bangladesh, & Ireland are yet to achieve the feat.

 

 

[StraightDrive26]

On 9/23/2024 at 6:56 AM, BlueBlood said:

Funny how the record post 2013 coincided with the downfall of teams like Pakistan, Sri Lanka, West Indies and Zimbabwe to minnow level status.

 

These teams especially at home were impossible to beat in the 80's and 90's. Now they are even losing vs. Bangladesh.

 

It's hilarious people forget this and talk all kinds of stats. 

 

It's obvious cricket is a dying sport and the last remnants of support is in India which has the best talent and money. Nothing changes this dynamic and it's really unfortunate but the truth.

Sorry Pakistan was never unbeatable at home even in the 90's. They actually lost a series to Zimbabwe at home in the 90's. They did not win any series against Australia, home or away. Don't think they won anything against SA as well. Their golden era was in their adopted home of UAE where they were unbeatable for a while due to Ajmal and Yasir Shah. Zimbabwe were a very good ODI side but were never a dominant Test cricket nation. SL in the 90's became a very good ODI side but did not win anything in Tests and were mostly associated with flat tracks at home with their batters piling on the runs. Their golden run also started after 2003 when they had Dilshan, Sanga, Mahela etc along with Murali, Mendis etc as spinners. West Indies downfall started in 1995, India were still a mediocre team post that and even lost to WI in 2 series after that. WI consistently lost to Australia and SA post that close home defeat against Australia in 1994/95. So not sure where you are getting these information from. 

[AuxiliA]

A good positive thread totally derailed by Thinblood.

[zen]

Congrats! … this is probably the first time that India has more test wins than losses in its history. 
 

Ind has been playing tests since 1931 so it took 90+ years for wins to go past losses. This might be the longest or slowest for a major test playing nation. 
 

A silver lining is that if loses go past wins, it won’t take 90+ years for wins to again go past losses. 

[BlueBlood]

12 hours ago, StraightDrive26 said:

Sorry Pakistan was never unbeatable at home even in the 90's. They actually lost a series to Zimbabwe at home in the 90's. They did not win any series against Australia, home or away. Don't think they won anything against SA as well. Their golden era was in their adopted home of UAE where they were unbeatable for a while due to Ajmal and Yasir Shah. Zimbabwe were a very good ODI side but were never a dominant Test cricket nation. SL in the 90's became a very good ODI side but did not win anything in Tests and were mostly associated with flat tracks at home with their batters piling on the runs. Their golden run also started after 2003 when they had Dilshan, Sanga, Mahela etc along with Murali, Mendis etc as spinners. West Indies downfall started in 1995, India were still a mediocre team post that and even lost to WI in 2 series after that. WI consistently lost to Australia and SA post that close home defeat against Australia in 1994/95. So not sure where you are getting these information from. 

 

LOL. Pakistan lost a series to Zimbabwe at home because Zimbabwe were a good side. Similar to present day New Zealand in the 90's. Andy Flower, Grant Flower, Heath Streak these were world class players and fielders.

 

How easily fans forget that Pakistan was a tough competition for India to beat when Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain were there. It wasn't until Sehwag dominated them that things changed.

 

The regression of Pakistan, Zimbabwe, SL, SA, NZ, WI post Lara/Ambrose/Walsh and even ENG (post Flintoff/Pietersen) is clear as day.

 

People are so dumb denigrating legends like Sachin, Sehwag, Gambhir, Kumble etc. is really sad to see. Just because T20 era has made life infinitely easier for likes of Ashwin/Jadeja in helpful home conditions doesn't mean the legends of the past who had to contend with experts at tests in hostile conditions were poorer.

 

The only good team now that can thrive in all conditions is Australia and that too because they have Smith still playing well and Head is clutch. Anyone with common sense knows this and is truly the only competition for India. In pressure situations New Zealand has made life hell for India but they too have regressed lately after most of their players are traveling all around the world playing T20 leagues. South Africa are perennial chokers and were never competition.

 

Hopefully history doesn't get rewritten where absolute duds get elevated above legends who punched above their weight with pure skill.

[Gollum]

9 hours ago, AuxiliA said:

A good positive thread totally derailed by Thinblood.

True. Sick and tired of posters who come here sporadically just to rant or spread negativity. Usually such folks would come when we lost, but now even in positive threads. Nothing substantial to add, same old ranting, whining, crying, complaining. 

[deathmonger]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

True. Sick and tired of posters who come here sporadically just to rant or spread negativity. Usually such folks would come when we lost, but now even in positive threads. Nothing substantial to add, same old ranting, whining, crying, complaining. 

Also I think it stems from a sense of loss.

 

The poor, weak India of their childhood is being erased. That period will mean nothing in the long history of India. A mere footnote as the "post-independence" years.

 

And in a way, it is a erasure of them too. That they never got to see the glory years.

 

No one talks about Korean pop culture pre late 90s. No one talks about American pop culture pre 20th century (US was independent in the late 1700s).

 

Thing is all of current Indian music, movies, sports etc will be relegated to a footnote and historical curio when the actual good times begin (2050s-2060s).

 

I'm sure people from all countries face that. Maybe Koreans who grew up in the 50s and 60s or Chinese who grew up in the 70s and 80s do too.

 

 

Edited September 25 by deathmonger