Haryana & J&K Elections

[coffee_rules]

1 hour ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

https://x.com/oldschoolmonk/status/1843584840647500091

Vote bhi diya, pan seat mila nahin

[Number]

36 minutes ago, ravishingravi said:

 

Truly, single handedly turned the momentum for the party

I quite liked his demeanour. Khattar was an honest man but always gave that khadoos uncle vibe. Saini worked very hard after he became CM with smile on his face. 

[ravishingravi]

https://theprint.in/politics/after-sitting-out-ls-polls-rss-campaigning-hard-for-bjp-in-haryana-not-the-time-for-anger/2294433/

[Number]

Haryana is rapidly urbanising. With Jat politics coming to an end, may be it will become like Gujarat after Patidar politics ended, just BJP vs Cong. 

[Gollum]

Sidelining RSS before this GE was a monumental blunder by BJP. Glad to see the correction.

[ravishingravi]

 

[diga]

48 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Sidelining RSS before this GE was a monumental blunder by BJP. Glad to see the correction.

BJP/Shah overestimated the 400paar effect and thought they could do without RSS... it also galvanised muslims and forced Congress to set their house in order. Next elections will be tough one with an aged Modi & second rung leaders still finding their feet. 

[ravishingravi]

Wonder how much of this voters response is driven by buyer's remorse post lok sabha. I think there is a degree of guilt for LS results. 

[coffee_rules]

59 minutes ago, ravishingravi said:

Wonder how much of this voters response is driven by buyer's remorse post lok sabha. I think there is a degree of guilt for LS results. 

I doubt Haryanavis are that aware of having a remorse of not voting to a party.  It is good to look at your own self-interests in elections in general.

 

[coffee_rules]

7 hours ago, Number said:

I quite liked his demeanour. Khattar was an honest man but always gave that khadoos uncle vibe. Saini worked very hard after he became CM with smile on his face. 

Magsaysay award generalist.. 

 

 

[coffee_rules]

Do you agree @AuxiliA ?  He says BJP used independents to break the Congress vote banks, jatts! Have to agree with BJP strategy. Only 4 rallies by Modi. Safe because, if lost they can say anti-incumbent, if won, Modi magic is not lost

 

Elections are won on caste, candidates and sanghatan. 
 

We can never see the end of caste system with a political system like this. I am not complaining today.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2024 by coffee_rules

[ravishingravi]

In 2009, bjp had just 9% vote share and 6 seats. It's an amazing run from thereon. Modi is right. Congress is unable to win and keep their place. Over longer term the party which retains its place will get stronger. 

Edited October 9, 2024 by ravishingravi

[ravishingravi]

1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

Do you agree @AuxiliA ?  He says BJP used independents to break the Congress vote banks, jatts! Have to agree with BJP strategy. Only 4 rallies by Modi. Safe because, if lost they can say anti-incumbent, if won, Modi magic is not lost

 

Elwcriobs won on caste, candidates and sanghatan. 
 

We can never see the end of caste system with a political system like this. I am not complaining today.

 

 

 

Caste is not necessarily weakness. Caste discrimination is. Caste is our buffer against majoritarianism and islamism. Caste atleast roots the person to something. In a void, Islamism grows unabated. 

 

SG clearly is crying from within. He is from Haryana. Congi stooge didn't see this coming the day before. 

[AuxiliA]

2 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Do you agree @AuxiliA ?  He says BJP used independents to break the Congress vote banks, jatts! Have to agree with BJP strategy. Only 4 rallies by Modi. Safe because, if lost they can say anti-incumbent, if won, Modi magic is not lost

 

Elections are won on caste, candidates and sanghatan. 
 

We can never see the end of caste system with a political system like this. I am not complaining today.

 

 

 

That's obvious. All parties field dummy independent candidates to cut votes.

 

But in this case even the Hooda faction tried to sabotage the Selja faction within the Cong. Hoodas , hyped by the stupid darbari media, probably felt that a massive 60-70 seat victory was on the cards for Cong. But a strong victory would have made the Hoodas dispensable for Cong. So they tried to aim for a sober 50 seat victory by cutting their rival Selja's prospects. Ended up with a massive KLPD. 

 

[randomGuy]

1 hour ago, ravishingravi said:

 

Caste is not necessarily weakness. Caste discrimination is. Caste is our buffer against majoritarianism and islamism. Caste atleast roots the person to something. In a void, Islamism grows unabated. 

 

SG clearly is crying from within. He is from Haryana. Congi stooge didn't see this coming the day before. 

It is easy to say this when you are not dalit. 

 

Caste = Discrimination for 100's and 1000's of years for which India as a whole should feel ashamed.

 

I say this also when I see higher caste people say caste is not by birth but by what you do. Lol...caste has historical context of utter discrimination against Dalits. Why can't you discard the word itself Instead of trying to justify it somehow?

 

Also, I believe dalits today are the biggest Hindus as they remained Hindus during islamic rule, didn't convert, even after facing 100's of years of discrimination by fellow Hindus. And we justify caste even today by saying 'Caste is not necessarily weakness'.

[ravishingravi]

1 hour ago, randomGuy said:

It is easy to say this when you are not dalit. 

 

Caste = Discrimination for 100's and 1000's of years for which India as a whole should feel ashamed.

 

I say this also when I see higher caste people say caste is not by birth but by what you do. Lol...caste has historical context of utter discrimination against Dalits. Why can't you discard the word itself Instead of trying to justify it somehow?

 

Also, I believe dalits today are the biggest Hindus as they remained Hindus during islamic rule, didn't convert, even after facing 100's of years of discrimination by fellow Hindus. And we justify caste even today by saying 'Caste is not necessarily weakness'.

 

Never like to personalize discussion. But yes, I am not a dalit but that didn't offer my family any privilege to escape poverty. 

 

My interest is in what identity Indian realistically can be rooted to. I used to think it was Indian. Then I thought it could be hindu / sanatan. Now unfortunately I think its case. Probably the way you see that word and under the JNU / British version of history Caste = Discrimination. By the way, british brough the word "caste" and they defined the framework for discrimination.  There is no equivalent word for it in Sanskrit.

 

Without going into detail Varna wasn't meant to an exclusionary / fixed group that decided every facet of individual's life, not was it decided by birth. Now when and where that changed and became something else is time for another discussion.  

 

I am not entirely unhappy of what caste / varna people choose to associate themselves as long as they consider themselves under broader Hindu umbrella. Discrimination is what has to be killed. Historic injustice has to be corrected to the extent possible. But killing the identity will only lead to advent of communism, islamism and wokeism. So basically Islamism. Hinduism is a very vague identity. Its like calling yourself European. Bangladeshis Hindus are being killed. Dont think a meaningful rally 50 people can be done for them. BJP / RSS is trying to change this. But I think its impossible task. Each election is fought on caste for a reason in every state.  

 

And this is not exclusive for caste. Even in army battalions have specific identity. Regiment include people based on identity but they fight for India.

 

Basically I narrow it down to two questions. 1) Can caste survive without Hinduism identity ? 2) Can Hinduism survive without caste ?. I used to say yes to 1) before. Now more I understand India and human behavior and what is happening in Europe and UK, I am moving towards 2) 

[someone]

1 hour ago, randomGuy said:

It is easy to say this when you are not dalit. 

 

Caste = Discrimination for 100's and 1000's of years for which India as a whole should feel ashamed.

 

I say this also when I see higher caste people say caste is not by birth but by what you do. Lol...caste has historical context of utter discrimination against Dalits. Why can't you discard the word itself Instead of trying to justify it somehow?

 

Also, I believe dalits today are the biggest Hindus as they remained Hindus during islamic rule, didn't convert, even after facing 100's of years of discrimination by fellow Hindus. And we justify caste even today by saying 'Caste is not necessarily weakness'.

You need to learn the difference between discrimination and exploitation. We have hierarchy issues which is biggest challenge yet, the large politics is led of the elitist, dynast groups. That includes farmers, middle-man, officers, not just politicians.

 

And exploitation works in all levels, even among dalits within, as that is a big reason why despite 70 years of special benefits, many dalits are still of the same levels. Also, history is written by winners, so a lot of bad done is discounted, whereas a lot of positive history including dalit arts, literature is diminished. You can't assume it was the same hierarchy for 1000s of years in all groups.

[someone]

BJP just got lucky, and Congress made mistakes (hindsight). They struggle 1v1 against BJP, and rather need alliances, teamwork.

 

BJP was similar as LS, yet emerged biggest party due to vote division of parties. Nevertheless, one has to make their own luck, and credit to BJP for making sure its voters do turn-out, and sheer hard work.  It;s a major morale boost, it was a proper "localized" election without much of "Modi".

 

 

Edited October 9, 2024 by someone

[randomGuy]

1 hour ago, ravishingravi said:

 

 

Basically I narrow it down to two questions. 1) Can caste survive without Hinduism identity ? 2) Can Hinduism survive without caste ?. I used to say yes to 1) before. Now more I understand India and human behavior and what is happening in Europe and UK, I am moving towards 2) 

Hinduism can survive without caste. It will be an awesome, flawless religion without it. 

 

I am a Sindhi who doesn't know about his caste, and neither does my father know. 

 

Sindhi meaning Sindhi language, some specific Sindhi food and some Sindhi festivals like chetichand etc. I am a vegetarian, an agnostic Hindu, a delhiite, a Sindhi, an engineer who likes (or used to like) mathematics. Caste is not part of my identity. I don't get why it should be for anyone. People want something to falsely feel good about themselves which is why they associate with a caste. Other people want to group up as a caste to dominate other people. There are no good reasons to associate with caste.

 

 

[ravishingravi]

39 minutes ago, someone said:

BJP just got lucky, and Congress made mistakes (hindsight). They struggle 1v1 against BJP, and rather need alliances, teamwork.

 

BJP was similar as LS, yet emerged biggest party due to vote division of parties. AAP + Cong would have  Nevertheless, one has to make their own luck, and credit to BJP for making sure its voters do turn-out, and sheer hard work.  It;s a major morale boost, it was a proper "localized" election without much of "Modi".

 

 

 

Its a third term and highest mandate ever. First time in history of the state. There is always some luck that one needs. But they had severe headwinds here.