KL Rahul: When will the torture end???

[deathmonger]

2 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

He should have stopped playing LOIs long back. I do not think he has the ability to switch between formats. He could have been like Pujara playing in single track mode.  Had he done that he would have slightly had a better test career. May be tick over 40 average? He still had a lot of technical issues at the start of his career. Especially balls that come back into him. At one point he was getting bowled a lot of times by playing inside hte line.

Post 21 comeback has been decent in Eng and SA (37-39 average in all 3 series)

 

Has been poor at home and in Bang and again they were dustbowls. Missed a few flatties in India (Aus 4th test 23, Eng series 24)

 

A good SENA opener is worth weight in gold. Need to extract as much juice as possible in next 3-4 years. Shouldn't play T20s at all. ODIs also a maybe now that Pant is back.

[Majestic]

1 hour ago, Lord said:

 

Why is Easwaran selected if there is no faith? and why isnt there faith but faith is there in a failed MO player to open who has failed everytime in Aus? Easwaran is compact and has earned his chances by performing in FC. What more he needs to do?

 

The hundred he got in SA was in middle order so why is he opening that too in Aus where he has never worked?

 

He was moved to middle order when Jaiswal thrived and when he couldn't even perform there, was dropped v NZ. Now suddenly he is back that too opening lmao

 

Nets narrative is BS. Anything can be said based on that. Axar and Jurel didnt play v NZ despite 3-0 loss. They must have been terrible in nets no? Nets

 

Its okay to drop Sarfaraz as Jurel replaced him. KL had no place in middle order anyway.

 

No he's not in same ballpark as Pant lmao especially in Aus. He has only scored in Eng and SA. Even there he scores big once in a series then goes quiet and plays 10 games. Rinse and repeat.

 

Those guys you named havent even got a proper chance let alone overseas, Even KL was poor at the start and then improved overseas. Now I'm not saying to select these guys specifically but idea is to move on from KL, not making a place for him outta nowhere. There are other talented guys like Sai Sudarshan for instance waiting for their due chance. 

 

 

Absolutely nonsense.

 

lets look at recent record in SENA for Indian batters:-

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;home_or_away=3;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=5;orderby=runs;spanmax1=23+Nov+2024;spanmin1=01+Jan+2020;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=batting
 

KL Rahul and Pant are top 2 clearly and KL has done it facing new ball as opener. He is poor in Asia, not outside Asia. Outside Asia, he is actually one of our best batters in recent times.

[Lord]

14 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

KL is still 32. Squeeze out 3-4 good years like Rohit post 2019 (or Khawaja for that matter)

 

His failures in Aus are mostly in 2018. He also failed in SA and Eng in 18 but did well in these countries post 21.

 

An opener who can play in SENA is not so easily found.

 

 

Rohit will play for 1-2 years himself. Will Rohit bat in middle if KL is opening? I dont think thats happening anyway.

 

KL is also not that great in India. 

 

As KL failed initially in SENA , allow other youngsters that backing too.Just like we found Jaiswal, we can find other youngsters like Sai,Pradosh or anyone else if we try them atleast.

[Majestic]

@Lord, you are saying Sarfaraz is dropped only because Jurel is so good?

 

That again incorrect. Otherwise he would have played instead of DDP. Why is DDP selected ahead of Sarfaraz and Easwaran? 

[Lord]

2 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Absolutely nonsense.

 

lets look at recent record in SENA for Indian batters:-

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;home_or_away=3;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=5;orderby=runs;spanmax1=23+Nov+2024;spanmin1=01+Jan+2020;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=batting
 

KL Rahul and Pant are top 2 clearly and KL has done it facing new ball as opener. He is poor in Asia, not outside Asia. Outside Asia, he is actually one of our best batters in recent times.

He is poor in Australia. Those numbers are influenced by SA and Eng. He hasn't played in NZ AFAIK.

 

In SA he was in MO and has been  there since we found Jaiswal. Only now hes been rushed back to open since he was dropped from MO in NZ series and opened in A game despite us having regular openers there. 

 

 

 

[Majestic]

There is only one explanation in the world why a guy who just played a full series and scored a 150 in one game gets dropped despite 2 key players are injured and 3 players who were not part of that main XI gets selected ahead of him.

 

The explanation is that he just gave zero confidence performing in those conditions. 

[Lord]

3 minutes ago, Majestic said:

@Lord, you are saying Sarfaraz is dropped only because Jurel is so good?

 

That again incorrect. Otherwise he would have played instead of DDP. Why is DDP selected ahead of Sarfaraz and Easwaran? 

Jurel replaced Sarfaraz. DDP came in for Gill at 3. Thats where he batted in A game.

 

If Gill was fit. Jurel would still have played but not DDP

[Adamant]

3 minutes ago, Majestic said:

@Lord, you are saying Sarfaraz is dropped only because Jurel is so good?

 

That again incorrect. Otherwise he would have played instead of DDP. Why is DDP selected ahead of Sarfaraz and Easwaran? 

I think the coach and captain did notice shortcomings in Khan's game, everyone here had the knowledge that khan is suspect against bounce, he must have failed to impress in the practice intra squad games too.

Jurel did better than Khan vs Eng in 2024 and he should have never been dropped, his technique is tighter and those knocks in A game were the final seal.

[Lord]

Just now, Majestic said:

There is only one explanation in the world why a guy who just played a full series and scored a 150 in one game gets dropped despite 2 key players are injured and 3 players who were not part of that main XI gets selected ahead of him.

 

The explanation is that he just gave zero confidence performing in those conditions. 

 

Your whole logic is ' TM ne kiya hai toh kuch soch samajh ke hi kiya hoga' despite evidence on the contrary. Thats difficult to argue. Same TM has been carrying Kohli for 5 years and has made numerous blunders which I'm sure you must have critcised too. 

 

Its not about Sarfaraz even.Jurel replaced him adequately. Sarfaraz seems a spin/flat track basher though needs chance to prove otherwise atleast.

 

[Majestic]

1 minute ago, Lord said:

He is poor in Australia. Those numbers are influenced by SA and Eng. He hasn't played in NZ AFAIK.

 

In SA he was in MO and has been  there since we found Jaiswal. Only now hes been rushed back to open since he was dropped from MO in NZ series and opened in A game despite us having regular openers there. 

 

 

 

He was going through bad patch then. It was 2018, many years ago.

 

Is his skill set not good enough for Australia? That’s not the case, he plays pace and bounce better than spin. You can’t split Australia from England and South Africa here. SENA and Asia has to be split. Not Australia and South Africa/England.

 

He was dropped rightly from middle order vs NZ because we had better players than him for that condition and that player had a 150 in that game. But now things are different. We are in Australia and we need a player who can negate the lateral movement against new ball and plays pace and bounce well and Rahul is one of the answers. 

[deathmonger]

8 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Rohit will play for 1-2 years himself. Will Rohit bat in middle if KL is opening? I dont think thats happening anyway.

 

KL is also not that great in India. 

 

As KL failed initially in SENA , allow other youngsters that backing too.Just like we found Jaiswal, we can find other youngsters like Sai,Pradosh or anyone else if we try them atleast.

Rohit should retire by next year. His reflexes are shot.

 

KL is not great in turning tracks but India should just look to get flattish wickets at home after the NZ debacle.

 

Instead of allowing other youngsters backing to improve, why should we waste the good SENA opener we already have?

 

Allowing youngsters to improve means another tour written off.

 

If he can be that late 30s averaging opener in SENA for next 3-4 years, then why dispose of him?

[vvvslaxman]

21 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

Post 21 comeback has been decent in Eng and SA (37-39 average in all 3 series)

 

Has been poor at home and in Bang and again they were dustbowls. Missed a few flatties in India (Aus 4th test 23, Eng series 24)

 

A good SENA opener is worth weight in gold. Need to extract as much juice as possible in next 3-4 years. Shouldn't play T20s at all. ODIs also a maybe now that Pant is back.

 

Shouldn't come back into LOI set up ever again. That is the only way he can show some level of consistency. Assign an anchor role and let him play that role until he starts sucking again

[Lord]

1 minute ago, Adamant said:

I think the coach and captain did notice shortcomings in Khan's game, everyone here had the knowledge that khan is suspect against bounce, he must have failed to impress in the practice intra squad games too.

Jurel did better than Khan vs Eng in 2024 and he should have never been dropped, his technique is tighter and those knocks in A game were the final seal.

 

Yeah its not about Sarfaraz v Jurel anyway. Sarfaraz will get his chances at home I guess. 

 

As you said, Jurel should not have been dropped in first place. We lost the series due to that error. 

 

Maybe we need different sets of bats for home and away like we do for bowlers. Horses for courses

 

 

[Adamant]

I think when Rohit returns he should play at 3 instead of replacing Rahul who has been the most assured batsman in this game. I know it sound impractical as Gill is the new upcoming superstar for Indian Advertisement but hopefully Gambhir, who speaks a lot about no one being bigger than the team finally gathers enough courage to stand against the status quo. 

[Majestic]

4 minutes ago, Lord said:

Jurel replaced Sarfaraz. DDP came in for Gill at 3. Thats where he batted in A game.

 

If Gill was fit. Jurel would still have played but not DDP

That doesn’t make sense because DDP don’t belong at this level. Fact is Sarfaraz also doesn’t belong which is why they just picked the batter who suited more for that position. 

3 minutes ago, Adamant said:

I think the coach and captain did notice shortcomings in Khan's game, everyone here had the knowledge that khan is suspect against bounce, he must have failed to impress in the practice intra squad games too.

Jurel did better than Khan vs Eng in 2024 and he should have never been dropped, his technique is tighter and those knocks in A game were the final seal.

That’s right. But they dropped Sarfaraz and picked DDP, which is what I am debating. Both don’t belong yet vs quality pace attack overseas. Sarfaraz is good vs spin for sure.

[Lord]

Just now, deathmonger said:

Rohit should retire by next year. His reflexes are shot.

 

KL is not great in turning tracks but India should just look to get flattish wickets at home after the NZ debacle.

 

Instead of allowing other youngsters backing to improve, why should we waste the good SENA opener we already have?

 

Allowing youngsters to improve means another tour written off.

 

If he can be that late 30s averaging opener in SENA for next 3-4 years, then why dispose of him?

 

If KL is confirmed as opener, then he shouldn't bat in middle order again. What is this confusion. Some times middle some times opening.

 

If Rohit retires tomorrow, I dont mind KL continuing to open. But if he hypothetically fails there, he has to be dropped, not slotted back to middle order at expense of others

[deathmonger]

6 minutes ago, Lord said:

He is poor in Australia. Those numbers are influenced by SA and Eng. He hasn't played in NZ AFAIK.

 

In SA he was in MO and has been  there since we found Jaiswal. Only now hes been rushed back to open since he was dropped from MO in NZ series and opened in A game despite us having regular openers there. 

 

 

 

Again that poor record in Australia is because of the 18 tour.

 

His record in Eng and SA was also poor in 18.

 

Post 21 he has done well in the 3 series he has played in Eng and SA (opened in two).

 

Even in Australia now you can see he is doing well.

 

He has the patience and technique to do decently in SENA.

 

Not saying he will be some Gavaskar and average 50+ but with Bumrah and the pace attack if he can be a consistent 35-40 averaging batsman in SENA for the next few years and take India to 70-2 on an average, that will be very good. 2018 SENA tours India would be like 10-2 or something and then Pujara, Kohli, Rahane would have to pull Ind back. Only in MCG 18 and SCG 18 with Mayank, India had a good partnership for second wicket and those were India's most comfortable matches in that cycle.

 

Again in Lords 21, Oval 21, Centurion 22 which India won he set good foundations. Even TB 21 he played well but it rained on final day.

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, Adamant said:

I think when Rohit returns he should play at 3 instead of replacing Rahul who has been the most assured batsman in this game. I know it sound impractical as Gill is the new upcoming superstar for Indian Advertisement but hopefully Gambhir, who speaks a lot about no one being bigger than the team finally gathers enough courage to stand against the status quo. 

 

Rohit should bat at 7. That guy is good only for flat tracks. Not on difficult pitches. He gets stuck at the crease and gets beaten a couple of times. Then the afridi shot comes. He gets out. Procession starts. Horses for courses. 

[Lord]

Just now, Adamant said:

I think when Rohit returns he should play at 3 instead of replacing Rahul who has been the most assured batsman in this game. I know it sound impractical as Gill is the new upcoming superstar for Indian Advertisement but hopefully Gambhir, who speaks a lot about no one being bigger than the team finally gathers enough courage to stand against the status quo. 

Thats never happening. Gambhir cant even tell Kohli to bat down. Rohit is the captain.

[Majestic]

5 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Your whole logic is ' TM ne kiya hai toh kuch soch samajh ke hi kiya hoga' despite evidence on the contrary. Thats difficult to argue. Same TM has been carrying Kohli for 5 years and has made numerous blunders which I'm sure you must have critcised too. 

 

Its not about Sarfaraz even.Jurel replaced him adequately. Sarfaraz seems a spin/flat track basher though needs chance to prove otherwise atleast.

 

But they could have played Sarfaraz at 4 with Kohli at 3. Putting DDP in XI suggests they have no faith in Sarfaraz as well.

 

Not questioning Kohli and playing DDP above Sarfaraz are two different cases because Kohli is a senior player and Bhagwan who can’t be dropped.