Would you trade consistency with trophies for the Indian team?

[Nikhil_cric]

17 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

By your logic we should've won CT 2017. We lost there as well. As for WC 2023, we also had Bumrah and red hot Shami along with advantage of playing at home. We were hands down the best team for the conditions ;and still we lost. I would say we had no business losing CT 2017 and WC 2023. Shows you that consistency doesn't win tourneys just like SA team of 90s and 2000s didn't win anything.

 

You can slice and dice it any which way but we were better than Pak in CT 2017, we were better than NZ in Wc 2019 and we were better than Aus in WC 2023 in Indian conditions. And yet here we are - a big fat zero trophies.

Champions Trophy has a history of such unusual results. South Africa 1998, NZ 2000, West Indies 2004. It is a short tournament.  

 

The ODI World Cup is won by teams who have batting firepower, strong W/L ratios and experienced squads in that order of priority.

 

South Africa have usually lacked in one of these(relative to other sides) and that's why they don't win. 

 

 

 

[Ultimate_Game]

9 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Champions Trophy has a history of such unusual results. South Africa 1998, NZ 2000, West Indies 2004. It is a short tournament.  

 

The ODI World Cup is won by teams who have batting firepower, strong W/L ratios and experienced squads in that order of priority.

 

South Africa have usually lacked in one of these(relative to other sides) and that's why they don't win. 

 

 

 

 

Look you can make up excuses excuses for pretty much anything. I've given you examples of where we were consistent and favorites and still ended up with egg on their faces. If your response is going to be "Champions Trophy has a history of such unusual results" then your argument doesn't hold any water. At this point you may as well say "Sports has a history of unusual results and that's why we love watching sports".

 

And regarding your second point about the WC, Indian team checked all the boxes - 1. They were the dominant team from 2019-2023 and you can check out their stats and had the best W/L record, 2. They had the batting firepower - they scored nearly 400 in the SF and consistently outbatted their opponents in the WC, 3. They were unbeaten throughout the tourney and had beaten Aus in the group stages.

 

As per your argument they should've won yet they lost. Shows consistency doesn't win you titles, showing up and raising your game on the big day does which is what Travis Head did for Aus in WC and also WTC final whereas our maharathis faltered as usual. So no, the most consistent team doesn't win everytime else we wouldn't have likes of SL, Pak, WI and even NZ win tourneys over the last decade.

[Need4Speed]

want consistency in winning the finals

[Ultimate_Game]

4 minutes ago, Need4Speed said:

want consistency in winning the finals

 

Yup, that's what counts. Consistently winning bilateral series, calling yourselves "king" and "Hitman", and then disappearing in knockouts and finals is not consistency. It's choking, and we've been pretty consistent at that!

[Nikhil_cric]

2 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Look you can make up excuses excuses for pretty much anything. I've given you examples of where we were consistent and favorites and still ended up with egg on their faces. If your response is going to be "Champions Trophy has a history of such unusual results" then your argument doesn't hold any water. At this point you may as well say "Sports has a history of unusual results and that's why we love watching sports".

 

And regarding your second point about the WC, Indian team checked all the boxes - 1. They were the dominant team from 2019-2023 and you can check out their stats and had the best W/L record, 2. They had the batting firepower - they scored nearly 400 in the SF and consistently outbatted their opponents in the WC, 3. They were unbeaten throughout the tourney and had beaten Aus in the group stages.

 

As per your argument they should've won yet they lost. Shows consistency doesn't win you titles, showing up and raising your game on the big day does which is what Travis Head did for Aus in WC and also WTC final whereas our maharathis faltered as usual. So no, the most consistent team doesn't win everytime else we wouldn't have likes of SL, Pak, WI and even NZ win tourneys over the last decade.

India's W/L ratio was boosted by beating a lot of weaker sides. You have to control for quality of opposition. 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=5;opposition=6;opposition=7;orderby=win_loss_ratio;spanmax1=04+Oct+2023;spanmin1=01+Aug+2019;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team

 

This idea that India were consistently dominant in that cycle is false. At least not against the best teams.  

[Bigg Brother]

4 hours ago, deepdynamo said:

 

All semis and finals in last 11 icc trophies ( excpet 2021 T20WC). Thats 10/11 knockouts. No team could achieve that level consistency.

 

Aus didn't qualify for knockout 2022WC, 2024WC, 2014WC, 2021 WTC, 2017 CT. Thats 5/11 they didn't even qualify. But they won 4/6 when they qualifies for knockouts.

 

In Test cricket again, India have been most consistent team before this NZ debacle. Invincible at home, series win in Aus and drawn series vs Eng, SA away. Also brushed aside SL, WI, BD.

 

But I would rather than take Aus  inconsistency than our consistent streak. Just make sure to win the crunch matches.

 

Winning group matches and making it to KO in sports hardly being played by 8 good teams isn't consistency. Showing up at KO is consistency. All while, India has been consistent in shyting pants in KO nothing else. They are consistent at losing that one match, and they haven't only lost it - they lost it convincingly which shows how consistent they are. Pick out any KO matches- Wt20 2014 final, WC-15 SF, Wt20-16 Semi final, Wt20-22 SF, CT-17 Final, WC-23  final. (Even WC 19 SF loss was humiliating if Jaddu didn't come to rescue) Those weren't losses, those were humiliating losses which sometimes makes me think so do we even deserve to play those KO matches- sometimes the format allowed them to sneak into KO and sometimes individual brilliance(Rohit embarrassing minnows and his flashy brilliance once in a while) 

Edited November 7, 2024 by Bigg Brother

[Ultimate_Game]

1 hour ago, Nikhil_cric said:

India's W/L ratio was boosted by beating a lot of weaker sides. You have to control for quality of opposition. 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=5;opposition=6;opposition=7;orderby=win_loss_ratio;spanmax1=04+Oct+2023;spanmin1=01+Aug+2019;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team

 

This idea that India were consistently dominant in that cycle is false. At least not against the best teams.  

 

I can come up with the same filters for virtually any team - Eng, Aus etc. If India weren't the dominating team last cycle, who was?

 

And what about WI in 1983? Surely they were the dominating team that time. Or 1987 when WI or Eng should've been the winners or Aus in 92 instead of Pak. Similary SA was the best and most dominant team in ODIs in 90s and didn't win either 96 or 99 WC.

 

Bottom line is that consistency doesn't win you championships. Showing up on the big day and elevating your game does. If someone had put their hands up the way Gambhir did in 2007 WT20 or 2011 WC finals, we would've had a couple more trophies.

[Nikhil_cric]

6 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

I can come up with the same filters for virtually any team - Eng, Aus etc. If India weren't the dominating team last cycle, who was?

 

And what about WI in 1983? Surely they were the dominating team that time. Or 1987 when WI or Eng should've been the winners or Aus in 92 instead of Pak. Similary SA was the best and most dominant team in ODIs in 90s and didn't win either 96 or 99 WC.

 

Bottom line is that consistency doesn't win you championships. Showing up on the big day and elevating your game does. If someone had put their hands up the way Gambhir did in 2007 WT20 or 2011 WC finals, we would've had a couple more trophies.

I've already posted the stats there. You obviously can't guarantee it because you've been consistent. You still need a bit of luck etc. 

 

But India played 11 series against SENA and won 6  but lost 5 in that period, not to mention losing an ODI series to Bangladesh IIRC. 

 

That's not exactly being consistent. 

 

Australia were just as good , if not better in this cycle. 

 

England were the dominant team in the previous cycle by some distance. 

Edited November 8, 2024 by Nikhil_cric

[Throwaib_Chuckter]

So far India has been a consistent team. Will they carry that mantle forward or will we get more brain fart gems like "Its allowed after 12 years"?

 

For me, fairly consistent with trophies; despite not being completely dominant in group stages or bilaterals is ideal.

[Zero_Unit]

No one remembers consistency or gives two flying f*CK about bilateral series (maybe some do but most don't). Everyone remembers trophies. Trophies matters more. Sports is all about showing your shiny trophy case. 

 

A good example of this is when pak won CT. Prior to that, they were super inconsistent ... Hell they sucked initially in the tournament too. Couple of luck went on their side and the final we all will remember it. But not many will remember Indian's consistent run 

[Prabhdeep Singh]

With consistency you have less bad days, trophies is occasional big highs with spells of mediocrity.

 

As an Indian fan it definitely hurts losing a stand alone test series to NZ in a whitewash.

 

 

[Ultimate_Game]

3 hours ago, Prabhdeep Singh said:

With consistency you have less bad days, trophies is occasional big highs with spells of mediocrity.

 

As an Indian fan it definitely hurts losing a stand alone test series to NZ in a whitewash.

 

 

 

Hurts us, not the stars with their "kabhi toh yeh chalta hai" attitude

[Suhaan]

8 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

I've already posted the stats there. You obviously can't guarantee it because you've been consistent. You still need a bit of luck etc. 

 

But India played 11 series against SENA and won 6  but lost 5 in that period, not to mention losing an ODI series to Bangladesh IIRC. 

 

That's not exactly being consistent. 

 

Australia were just as good , if not better in this cycle. 

 

England were the dominant team in the previous cycle by some distance. 

England weren't the dominant team,they just looked strong on paper

Were on brink of elimination till they forged their way in and won the WC without actually winning it

Before that too they weren't dominating anyone or anything,that was the most farce WC I have ever seen

[Nikhil_cric]

55 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

England weren't the dominant team,they just looked strong on paper

Were on brink of elimination till they forged their way in and won the WC without actually winning it

Before that too they weren't dominating anyone or anything,that was the most farce WC I have ever seen

In that World Cup cycle they were. They lost only 3 ODI series in that cycle and that too by

close margins. 

 

 

[deepdynamo]

Absolute roller-coaster ride from GG - debacle to glory in 3 months.

 

No consistency in winning every format but winning trophies. Loving it.

[crictime]

India is not inconsistent. In T20WC, we won all matches. Same trend is observed in CT2025. We have been consistent in T20 as well as ODI and winning trophies as well. Even England  series was a dominating performance by Team India.

 

Certainly though, if we had to lose one match, then I would like us to lose one round robin match than one final.

 

SA under Hansie Cronje had best ODI win record at one point,but they used to lose the crucial knockouts. They would certainly have taken this option of trophy over consistency.

[Lord]

2 hours ago, deepdynamo said:

Absolute roller-coaster ride from GG - debacle to glory in 3 months.

 

No consistency in winning every format but winning trophies. Loving it.

 

Different formats. He seems suited to white ball

[putrevus]

Consistency is needed to bring trophies.But you need some element of luck to win tournaments.Toss is part of luck too.

 

Yes, you can be Pakistan like 2017 CT but you will disappear like they have since then.

[Chakdephatte]

On 3/10/2025 at 3:13 PM, Lord said:

 

Different formats. He seems suited to white ball

We have basically won all but one game in last three ICC tournaments. That one. The last time we actually performed poorly was 2021 WC with new players (Kishan, Pant, SKY). We were terrible even with strategies. Since then we have been excellent in LOIs. 

 

People easily ignore how luck plays a big part in winning trophies. 

[vvvslaxman]

On 11/7/2024 at 5:54 PM, Zero_Unit said:

No one remembers consistency or gives two flying f*CK about bilateral series (maybe some do but most don't). Everyone remembers trophies. Trophies matters more. Sports is all about showing your shiny trophy case. 

 

A good example of this is when pak won CT. Prior to that, they were super inconsistent ... Hell they sucked initially in the tournament too. Couple of luck went on their side and the final we all will remember it. But not many will remember Indian's consistent run 

 

But that CT2017 win has become a curse for them lol DIdn't win much any after that.

 

2 Asia cups didn't even reach final

2 World cups didn't even reach semi final

1 CT didn't even go past the first round