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Gukesh creates history and becomes The 18th undisputed World Chess Champion

Tillu

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randomGuy Veteran

randomGuy

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Right now gukesh is the best indian player for sure.

 

18 yo youngest world champion ever....one can not emphasis his age enough, such a small age to achieve such a massive feat. Simply amazing . This also means he has many years to dominate the field.

 

Yesterday surprisingly I also teared up a little seeing it on live broadcast. It was so sudden.

 

I am betting on Arjun to surpass current classical Rating of carlsen. At that point, we can compare Arjun and gukesh but right now Gukesh is ahead @Gollum.

 

When Arjun surpasses magnus that will truly be starting of dominance of the new generation.

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rangeelaraja Grand Master

rangeelaraja

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, randomGuy said:

Right now gukesh is the best indian player for sure.

 

18 yo youngest world champion ever....one can not emphasis his age enough, such a small age to achieve such a massive feat. Simply amazing . This also means he has many years to dominate the field.

 

Yesterday surprisingly I also teared up a little seeing it on live broadcast. It was so sudden.

 

I am betting on Arjun to surpass current classical Rating of carlsen. At that point, we can compare Arjun and gukesh but right now Gukesh is ahead @Gollum.

 

When Arjun surpasses magnus that will truly be starting of dominance of the new generation.

 

 

When Vishy lost the title to Magnus in 2013, he was 44.  Magnus is just 34 right now.  Imagine how Magnus will be 10 years from now in classical chess. 

 

And mind you Vishy was well into his 40s when he kept defended his title against Topalov on his own turf. And then later against Gelfand. 

 

Just goes to show what a beast Vishy was.

 

Magnus said that there has been a strong ratings deflation ( due to help from engines ) -  with many of the 2600 players playing like 2750+ players from 10 years back.

 

So more than ratings...whats more important is how many super strong GM tournaments you win. 

 

Even qualifying for the candidates is a massive achievement. @Gollum

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randomGuy Veteran

randomGuy

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26 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said:

 

 

When Vishy lost the title to Magnus in 2013, he was 44.  Magnus is just 34 right now.  Imagine how Magnus will be 10 years from now in classical chess. 

 

And mind you Vishy was well into his 40s when he kept defended his title against Topalov on his own turf. And then later against Gelfand. 

 

Just goes to show what a beast Vishy was.

 

Magnus said that there has been a strong ratings deflation ( due to help from engines ) -  with many of the 2600 players playing like 2750+ players from 10 years back.

 

So more than ratings...whats more important is how many super strong GM tournaments you win. 

 

Even qualifying for the candidates is a massive achievement. @Gollum

Vishy is a freak of nature....no one near his age is anywhere close to this strong....

 

Rating do matter... either rating inflation or rating deflation, it applies to all currently active players. Gukesh said again magnus is the best player currently even after winning WC. It is the ratings alone which proves this. Do you think he will say this if he surpasses magnus in ratings?

 

 

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rangeelaraja Grand Master

rangeelaraja

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3 minutes ago, randomGuy said:

Vishy is a freak of nature....no one near his age is anywhere close to this strong....

 

Rating do matter... either rating inflation or rating deflation, it applies to all currently active players. Gukesh said again magnus is the best player currently even after winning WC. It is the ratings alone which proves this. Do you think he will say this if he surpasses magnus in ratings?

 

 

 

 

Ratings do matter but they are overrated.

 

Lets remember Vishy never set the ratings on fire. Let alone Kasparov and Magnus....Topaloav, Kramnik...were at par or ahead of him in ratings for a few years.

 

Topalov was a ratings monster at his peak.

 

But Vishy is a much greater player than Topalov and Kramnik.

 

Alot of people say thay Arjun too has farmed his ratings because of his ruthless domination of sub 2650 players.

 

Has he done the same against 2750+ players ? 

 

I always feel winning the classical in very strong marquee events that have 2750 players ...like Tata Steel, Norway Chess, London Chess Classic....etc etc.. show the true mettle. 

 

 

 

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randomGuy Veteran

randomGuy

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@rangeelaraja you are bringing up a different topic of peak rating. Anyways vishy peak rating 2820, topalov 2825.

 

I am talking average over a longer term. Carlsens average rating over 8-10 months is 60-70 more than gukesh. (Forget over 5 years period since gukesh upsurge is relatively recent.) vishy rating chart over the years is third best in history, behind carlsen n Kasparov...I follow these things, I know a bit.

 

On one hand you are saying 2600s have 2750 strength these days, one the other saying Arjun 'farming' rating points by beating these players? Do you know at 2800, Arjun loses rating points on drawing games as much as he gains by winning against 2650s-2700s?

 

Ratings are very important.

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rangeelaraja Grand Master

rangeelaraja

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14 minutes ago, randomGuy said:

@rangeelaraja you are bringing up a different topic of peak rating. Anyways vishy peak rating 2820, topalov 2825.

 

I am talking average over a longer term. Carlsens average rating over 8-10 months is 60-70 more than gukesh. (Forget over 5 years period since gukesh upsurge is relatively recent.) vishy rating chart over the years is third best in history, behind carlsen n Kasparov...I follow these things, I know a bit.

 

On one hand you are saying 2600s have 2750 strength these days, one the other saying Arjun 'farming' rating points by beating these players? Do you know at 2800, Arjun loses rating points on drawing games as much as he gains by winning against 2650s-2700s?

 

Ratings are very important.

 

I don't disagree with what you are saying ....

 

All I am saying is that winning the big classical tournaments is more important. 

 

1. For 10 years,  you can finish number 2 & number 3  with +2  scores in the highest rated classical tournaments and you will have maintain a high average ratings consistently.

 

2. Or you can have some bad tournaments where you lose to lower rated opponents and lose alot rating points -  and then win the highest rated classical tournaments 

 

I will take # 2 over # 1 any day.

 

Its like South Africa cricket through the 90s and early 2000s....won a very high % of games but never ( or rarely ) won when the stakes were highest.

 

 

Carlsen and Kasparov are all time greats because they did it ALL - high win % against their next 2-3 highest rated opponents and won maximum super GM tournaments.

This allowed them to maintain 2800+ ratings for 10+ years.

 

Nobody else has come close to it. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Gollum Grand Master

Gollum

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Rating is important for me but big titles mean just as much or more, don't want to see repeat of RSA in cricket. 

 

Olympiad, WCC, WC, Candidates ke alawa, target these classical supertournaments, which are getting rarer no doubt.

 

Once upon a time Linares, Wijk aan Zee, then MTel, Tal Memorial, Bilbao, Shamkir briefly. Now Sinquefield Cup is getting big, Wijk anyway is the Wimbledon of chess. Want to see our boys win these titles ahead of Carlsen, Caruana. 

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rangeelaraja Grand Master

rangeelaraja

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10 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Rating is important for me but big titles mean just as much or more, don't want to see repeat of RSA in cricket. 

 

Olympiad, WCC, WC, Candidates ke alawa, target these classical supertournaments, which are getting rarer no doubt.

 

Once upon a time Linares, Wijk aan Zee, then MTel, Tal Memorial, Bilbao, Shamkir briefly. Now Sinquefield Cup is getting big, Wijk anyway is the Wimbledon of chess. Want to see our boys win these titles ahead of Carlsen, Caruana. 

 

Bingo !! Thats exactly what I was trying to explain our friend @randomGuy.

 

Big titles define legacy  much much more than sustained high ratings ( unless it is sustained # 1 rating ) .

 

I for one would like to see Carlsen's ego ruptured. 

 

I don't buy the bull$hit about Carlsen's bluntness being a Scandinavian trait. 

 

Peter Heine Neilsen who was Vishy's trainer for the longest time until ( and then he almost selfishly switched sides in 2013 to Carlsen in the match against Vishy ),  is a very soft spoken, courteous person -- -is also Scandinavian ( Danish ?)

 

Carlsen in my opinion is a borderline narcissist with this arrogance. 

 

I would love to see one of our young guns ( be it Gukesh or Pragg or Arjun ) rupture his legacy in classical World Championship battle.

 

I think Carlsen has a fear of losing in the classical format to hungrier and younger challengers and thats why he has cleverly walked away.

 

Its better to walk away and secure your legacy as a winner than as a loser. Thats what he is trying to do.

 

As someone repeated here - Carlsen could not beat Caruana and Karjakin in the classical World championship format.

 

 

 

 

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Gollum Grand Master

Gollum

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Gukesh almost won Wijk this year, but I think he did a 3 fold repetition with Pragg by mistake, otherwise clear first. Lost the playoff to Wei Yi. 

 

Underrated happy moment this year for me was Pragg demolishing Carlsen in classical in his home tournament of Norway Chess. Anyway Armagaddon chwtiyapa  in that tournament turns me off. 

 

Wijk lineup for 2025 has some big names, watch out for that. 4-5 Indians will play. First big event of the year, mid-January. 

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Vickydev Grand Master

Vickydev

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47 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Gukesh almost won Wijk this year, but I think he did a 3 fold repetition with Pragg by mistake, otherwise clear first. Lost the playoff to Wei Yi. 

 

Underrated happy moment this year for me was Pragg demolishing Carlsen in classical in his home tournament of Norway Chess. Anyway Armagaddon chwtiyapa  in that tournament turns me off. 

 

Wijk lineup for 2025 has some big names, watch out for that. 4-5 Indians will play. First big event of the year, mid-January. 

We might see Gukesh later this month in the Rapid and Blitz World Championships(He is registered whether he will play or not is different altogether). Arjun and Pragg for sure should be there

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