We got away with our bowling .. need to have a good balance

[straighttalk]

4 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

I'll say it again that for this series we need to play 4 specialist fast bowlers + Reddy and Sundar/Jadeja. We're gonna play a Pink ball Test at Adelaide, seam friendly Brisbane/Gabba, and a green pitch at MCG. We need pacers as we don't want to let up pressure on Aussie batsmen and use Bumrah as a shock bowler and not overbowl him.

 

An additional pacer will give us much more benefit than a batsman as a combo of Reddy, Sundar/Jadeja and Harshit can give us lower order runs. My team would be:

 

Rohit (c)

Jaiswal

Rahul

Kohli

Pant (wk)

Nitish

Sundar/Jadeja

Harshit

Akash Deep/ Shami

Bumrah

Siraj

 

Sundar or Jadeja will be batting at 7, which is one spot higher for them but we can't afford to let Aussie batsmen get away. We need continued pressure from our pacers and that'll only happen if we play 4 specialist pacers so they're fresh in every spell and bowl with pace throughout. Don't want a situation where we overbowl Bumrah, or we need to rely on Sundar and Reddy coz our 3 main pacers have bowled a lot of overs. This is what happened to Aus and they had to rely on Marsh, Lyon and Labuschagne, which was like free runs for us.

 

We can't be defensive and have to go all out. The best way to do it is to keep the Aussie batsmen down by not letting them get cheap runs and have a fresh pacer at them all the time. Plus Akash is likely to excel in seam friendly conditions for the next 3 Tests.

Yes I like this team too...we don't necessarily have to play Ashwin ..four front line pacers plus two all-rounders will do well too

[deathmonger]

2 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

That's why I'm putting my faith in pacers and going with a 4th pacer in place of a batsman. The only way we win is if our pacers keep on dismissing Aus batsmen cheaply and put pressure on them. For that to happen we need our pacers relatively fresh which will require a 4th pacer. A 3 pace attack will be run into the ground, which happened to Aus trio in 2020-21 and we saw it in the first Test.

 

Even if an extra batsman gives us 30 more runs, it won't matter if our pace attack is tired and ineffective. Keeping our pace attack fresh and firing should be our top priority. Without it we don't win no matter how many batters we play.

They were playing the same 3 guys.

 

We have Bumrah, Siraj, Akash, Harshit. Shami might join at some point. Prasidh is also there.

 

So we can rotate.

[deathmonger]

2 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

That's why I'm putting my faith in pacers and going with a 4th pacer in place of a batsman. The only way we win is if our pacers keep on dismissing Aus batsmen cheaply and put pressure on them. For that to happen we need our pacers relatively fresh which will require a 4th pacer. A 3 pace attack will be run into the ground, which happened to Aus trio in 2020-21 and we saw it in the first Test.

 

Even if an extra batsman gives us 30 more runs, it won't matter if our pace attack is tired and ineffective. Keeping our pace attack fresh and firing should be our top priority. Without it we don't win no matter how many batters we play.

They were playing the same 3 guys.

 

We have Bumrah, Siraj, Akash, Harshit. Shami might join at some point. Prasidh is also there.

 

So we can rotate.

[deathmonger]

2 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

That's why I'm putting my faith in pacers and going with a 4th pacer in place of a batsman. The only way we win is if our pacers keep on dismissing Aus batsmen cheaply and put pressure on them. For that to happen we need our pacers relatively fresh which will require a 4th pacer. A 3 pace attack will be run into the ground, which happened to Aus trio in 2020-21 and we saw it in the first Test.

 

Even if an extra batsman gives us 30 more runs, it won't matter if our pace attack is tired and ineffective. Keeping our pace attack fresh and firing should be our top priority. Without it we don't win no matter how many batters we play.

They were playing the same 3 guys.

 

We have Bumrah, Siraj, Akash, Harshit. Shami might join at some point. Prasidh is also there.

 

So we can rotate.

[Ultimate_Game]

1 hour ago, deathmonger said:

They were playing the same 3 guys.

 

We have Bumrah, Siraj, Akash, Harshit. Shami might join at some point. Prasidh is also there.

 

So we can rotate.

 

Less need to rotate if you keep them fresh by sharing the workload across 4 pacers instead of 3. Their intensity levels will be high too and also provide cover in case one of them have an off day, which is possible with a mercurial Siraj and a newbie Harshit.

[Ultimate_Game]

1 hour ago, Lord said:

Nitish is not lower order in your combo. He bats at 6. Neither is he good enough to bat at 6, nor Sundar

 

Harshit looked like a rank tailender in Perth,Akash is even worse. 

 

As I said 20-21 Aus had same 3 pacers, we can choose any 3 among the options we have. Even Bumrah can be rested once we win the series. We won without him in Gabba. Even there lower order had saved us. 

 

I disagree. Based on what I saw of him, Nitish looked like a no. 6 bat. Top scored on that pitch in 1st innings and looked the part in the 2nd one as well.

[straighttalk]

6 hours ago, Adamant said:

There is absolutely no need of an extra pacer.

 

Australian pitches have been spicy lately and when you add pink ball into the mix the match is not gonna last for more than 3.5 days, maybe even less.

 

We should focus on increasing batting strength , Nitish and Sundar batting at 7 and 8 is perfect.

 

Last time we won the Gabba test because of our lower order batting only, posters who are saying that if your top 6 do not score then you shouldn’t expect 7 and 8 to do that aren’t really analysing test matches of this era.

 

Sundar and Shardul helped us win the Gabba test, and in a low scoring match I would rather have an extra batsman than an extra bowler.

 

BTW, bowlers like Nitish can actually do as well as a specialist pacers with a pink ball in hand on a spicy pitch.

 

 

My team would be

 

Jaiswal

Rahul

Rohit

Kohli

Pant

Jurel

Sundar

Nitish

Rana

Bumrah

Siraj/Akashdeep

Perth pitch was spicy .we could be doing what the aussie pacers did. They have four world class but old bowlers. What does India have. One world class bowlers. One erratic bowler.one debutant who is not world class. And two sixth bowler. As I said we got away with it but if we play this attack it will be catastrophic for us. Pink ball may be we get away with it but not the other venues

[putrevus]

They need to play one spinner, it will be ridiculous to go with 4 fast bowlers and Reddy. It weakens the batting too.

[Sandz]

You don’t need 4 fast bowlers in Adelaide or MCG these days.

[rkt.india]

On Aussie pitches, Ashwin jadeja are no different than washington as bowlers.

[Number]

46 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

On Aussie pitches, Ashwin jadeja are no different than washington as bowlers.

Specially in current bowling form Washy is better than both.

Edited November 28 by Number

[singhvivek141]

That's where we need proper pace allrounders who can keep the pressure with the bowl and also don't compromise our batting lineup.

 

Harshit is a rookie and though he has potential with bat, expecting him to deliver returns immediately may not be the right thing at this moment. Nitish is trying his best with the bowl but unless he bowls in 130-137 range, he wont be able to have much impact in Australia. 

 

So Bumrah need to do the heavy lifting till Shami comes back. Siraj can't lead this bowling attack and in absence of Bumrah, he can be a loose cannon.

[Lone Wolf]

Australia plays with a 4 man attack + Marsh.

There are reports of  Beau Webster playing in Adelaide over Marsh though who is better bowler but inferior batter 

 

No need to change combination for Adelaide I think.

 

There is a long rest in between already 

[Adamant]

11 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

I agree. Bumrah is the difference between the 2 teams and must be protected at all costs. 

 

Harshit + Akashdeep can provide about 0.7 batsman. 

 

6. Washington 

7. Nitish

8. Harshit .. can bat 

9. Akashdeep .. can bat a bit 

10. Bumrah

11. Siraj.

 

 

You can have another bowler in the team in place of a batsman but lets not be silly here, Rana + Akashdeep doesn't equate to 0.7 batsman, also there is no such thing.

Either we go with extra pacer or extra batter.

[Lord]

We are underestimating Nitish's bowling. He didnt bowl much in first innings but in 2nd dig he was getting bounce even on that patta. With pink ball he can as good as Bhuvi

[express bowling]

51 minutes ago, Adamant said:

 but lets not be silly here, Rana + Akashdeep doesn't equate to 0.7 batsman, also there is no such thing.
 

 

.

 

A typical Nr.8 batter we choose these days averages 20 to 25. Let's say a mean of 23 runs per innings. 

 

0.7 of that is 16.

 

All the Indian frontline pacers average between 4 to 12 with the bat these days. Let's say a mean of 8 runs per innings 

 

So 8 extra runs are needed to be 0.7 No.8 batter.

 

I expect Harshit ( averaging 42 as batter in FC before debut ) and Akashdeep  ( has improved FC batting significantly ) to score those 8 extra runs per innings together. 

 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 06:46 AM by express bowling

[Lone Wolf]

17 minutes ago, Lord said:

We are underestimating Nitish's bowling. He didnt bowl much in first innings but in 2nd dig he was getting bounce even on that patta. With pink ball he can as good as Bhuvi

Yeah Nitish had his work cut out in Perth not ideal conditions for him. He is not known to hit the deck hard.

 

In Adelaide and maybe on a possible greener MCG he will be handful.

He is not a finished product sure but adds that batting depth that we lack.

Edited Thursday at 06:42 AM by Lone Wolf

[express bowling]

14 minutes ago, Lord said:

We are underestimating Nitish's bowling. He didnt bowl much in first innings but in 2nd dig he was getting bounce even on that patta. With pink ball he can as good as Bhuvi

 

Captain's confidence in NKR is the main thing. Will he be given enough overs by the captain so that Bumrah and Co. are not overworked ?

 

Did not happen in Perth. 

 

Bowled a grand total of 7 overs in the first test and just 4 in the longer 2nd innings. 

[Adamant]

55 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

.

 

A typical Nr.8 batter we choose these days averages 20 to 25. Let's say a mean of 23 runs per innings. 

 

0.7 of that is 16.

 

All the Indian frontline pacers average between 4 to 12 with the bat these days. Let's say a mean of 8 runs per innings 

 

So 8 extra runs are needed to be 0.7 No.8 batter.

 

I expect Harshit ( averaging 42 as batter in FC before debut ) and Akashdeep  ( has improved FC batting significantly ) to score those 8 extra runs per innings together. 

 

 

 

First of all we are playing Nitish at 8 who is definitely not a 25 averaging batsman, secondly I don’t think it works like that.

 

Batters potential matters a lot too, Usman Khawaja who averages 45 as an opener only averages 8 runs less than Sachin, doesn’t mean he is as good as 85% of Sachin Tendulkar. 
 

We are not solving  mathematical equations here, Ashwin averages 28 with the bat, doesn’t mean that two Ashwin will outscore Sachin Tendulkar coz combined average is 56.

 

We need a talented batter there not just two half batsman combined into one.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Adamant said:

First of all we are playing Nitish at 8 who is definitely not a 25 averaging batsman,

 

Nitish has played just one test. We have played either Shardul ( averaging 20 ) or Ashwin ( averaging 25 ) at 8 for a long time. 

 

1 hour ago, Adamant said:

secondly I don’t think it works like that.

 

Batters potential matters a lot too, Usman Khawaja who averages 45 as an opener only averages 8 runs less than Sachin, doesn’t mean he is as good as 85% of Sachin Tendulkar. 

 

Stats don't mean everything in domestic cricket because the quality of the opposition is ususlly weak and not what one would face in international cricket 

 

But nothing beats relevant stats of the same era in international cricket. Tendulkar had much more class and aesthetic appeal .. but averaging 45 as an opener in this era means Khwaja is almost as effective as Tendulkar except for a shorter period.  All the rest are just emotions. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Adamant said:

 

 

We are not solving  mathematical equations here, Ashwin averages 28 with the bat, doesn’t mean that two Ashwin will outscore Sachin Tendulkar coz combined average is 56.

 

 

Ashwin averages 25. 

 

No.8s won't outscore No.4s becsuse they get less opportunities to bat and have more not outs that embellish averages. 

 

But two top 5 batters averaging 30 each would together definitely outscore Sachin averaging 53.8  if they play the same number of innings. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Adamant said:

 

We need a talented batter there not just two half batsman combined into one.

 

Talented batters are needed in the top 7 and not occupying a bowler's slot at 8 to cover for out of form top 4 batters.

Edited Thursday at 09:08 AM by express bowling