How did Kohli fool the whole world?

[Muloghonto]

On 1/4/2025 at 1:04 PM, Laaloo said:

Yup. As a diehard sachin fan, Sachin retiring on 99 centuries and without dragging on would have been iconic. It was sad to see his average drop from 56+ to 53+

Yes, but all that means is you just have to dig a wee bit deeper to see how Sachin is so much greater than any bat going around today :

Man had an average of 56.94 and 14692 runs in 290 innings.
just go give you an idea, our 'greatest since Bradman' overrated Aussie Smith is averaging 55+ after 205 innings, stuck at 9999 runs, while our Sachu got there in 195 innings while facing MUCH stronger bowling and being in a much weaker batting lineup for most of the time up to then ( up to 7-8K runs point of his career, Tendu was a literal one man army and only after did he get the other great bats).

 

[StraightDrive26]

I am happy that finally people have started to realise how great Sachin was. There was a time when everyone was on this bandwagon of how great Virat is and were even saying Sachin was inferior. I always knew that Virat was nowhere close to what Sachin was. The fans and his PR made sure that he was hyped to such levels in Tests while he hasn't been even a good bat in the format for 5+ years. He had the same slump as Pujara and Rahane but still continued to play. Rahane and Pujara despite them being out of form still had a great BGT in 2020/21 but Virat except for his 3 meaningless hundreds hasn't done anything. 

 

Virat should not even be mentioned in the same sentence as Sachin ever in any format except for may be in T20Is because Sachin did not play in many. Even the ODIs were different and hard to compare. The 2 new balls from either end to the ball losing its colour and difficult to see with reverse swing etc of the 90's, something Virat has not faced. Virat is a limited batter who is good for white ball cricket. He had a brilliant 5 years in Tests, I give that to him. He is a good player but again his lack of back foot play through the offside got him into trouble.

 

People who can play cuts, late cuts, back foot punch etc do another thing which Virat cannot. When you can play those shots to back of a length deliveries, the bowler has to rethink and start bowling little fuller, which helps you to negotiate good bowlers better. Virat not being able to do that and plonking his front foot all the time makes it easy for the bowlers to keep bowling that back of a length to him all the time. If the ball is not full enough to drive, he struggles and his scoring is restricted. Sachin had all the shots, so it was hard to keep him quiet. His back foot punches were a treat to watch and he could also play the cuts and late cuts. He added the ramp shot late in his career, may be around 2006/07 season. I saw him play that shot to Johnson a lot in the 2007/08 tour to Australia. He was still evolving when he was in mid 30's, Virat stopped at 30. Something changed after 2019 and it may have been his preference for personal life, that is fine as that is important but again you need to know you are not good enough and you don't have the drive anymore. Test cricket needs lots of hard work and Virat isn't willing to put that effort anymore and he hasn't tried that for 5 years now. He isn't going to be able to do that in the future as well. I just hope he comes to his senses and does not live in a delusional world. He can probably play ODIs for couple more years and probably retire as a good Indian Test batter and a great white ball batter.

[Muloghonto]

5 minutes ago, StraightDrive26 said:

I am happy that finally people have started to realise how great Sachin was. There was a time when everyone was on this bandwagon of how great Virat is and were even saying Sachin was inferior. I always knew that Virat was nowhere close to what Sachin was. The fans and his PR made sure that he was hyped to such levels in Tests while he hasn't been even a good bat in the format for 5+ years. He had the same slump as Pujara and Rahane but still continued to play. Rahane and Pujara despite them being out of form still had a great BGT in 2020/21 but Virat except for his 3 meaningless hundreds hasn't done anything. 

 

Virat should not even be mentioned in the same sentence as Sachin ever in any format except for may be in T20Is because Sachin did not play in many. Even the ODIs were different and hard to compare. The 2 new balls from either end to the ball losing its colour and difficult to see with reverse swing etc of the 90's, something Virat has not faced. Virat is a limited batter who is good for white ball cricket. He had a brilliant 5 years in Tests, I give that to him. He is a good player but again his lack of back foot play through the offside got him into trouble.

 

People who can play cuts, late cuts, back foot punch etc do another thing which Virat cannot. When you can play those shots to back of a length deliveries, the bowler has to rethink and start bowling little fuller, which helps you to negotiate good bowlers better. Virat not being able to do that and plonking his front foot all the time makes it easy for the bowlers to keep bowling that back of a length to him all the time. If the ball is not full enough to drive, he struggles and his scoring is restricted. Sachin had all the shots, so it was hard to keep him quiet. His back foot punches were a treat to watch and he could also play the cuts and late cuts. He added the ramp shot late in his career, may be around 2006/07 season. I saw him play that shot to Johnson a lot in the 2007/08 tour to Australia. He was still evolving when he was in mid 30's, Virat stopped at 30. Something changed after 2019 and it may have been his preference for personal life, that is fine as that is important but again you need to know you are not good enough and you don't have the drive anymore. Test cricket needs lots of hard work and Virat isn't willing to put that effort anymore and he hasn't tried that for 5 years now. He isn't going to be able to do that in the future as well. I just hope he comes to his senses and does not live in a delusional world. He can probably play ODIs for couple more years and probably retire as a good Indian Test batter and a great white ball batter.

 

Sachin was also a very compact batsman and didnt go fishing very wide off his off stump in test cricket, unless it was also very short and then he just clubbed it wherever he wished.

People forget that Sachin was a bona-fide great test batsman by his mid-late 20s, while Virat never was and while Sachin crossed 50 average entering his adulthood, Virat only touched 50 nearing his 30th bday and well into the peak of his career.

People also don't factor in, Sachin came into the team undercooked - he was a raw 16 year old on potential only and no 16 year old is a finished batsman, no matter how great they end up being and despite this, in the period he was 16-20, he averaged 35 odd in test cricket, in an era where there were only 2-3 batsmen going around averaging 50 in test cricket in the whole world (in late 80s-early 90s, i cant think of anyone except Border,Richards & Miandad having 50+ averages, maybe Steve Waugh already had 50+ by then but maybe not coz Tugga had a slow allrounder-ish start to his first few years of career) and another 7-8 who were averaging 40+ in test cricket ( except for Greenidge, Haynes,Richardson, Gooch, Azharuddin,Crowe,Dean Jones and maybe couple others no one else was around averaging 40+ in test cricket either)

Plus, he had a mini Kohli-esque decline by the time he was pushing 40 but was humble and smart enough to call it quits after 2 years.
If you take these two periods out of his career, he still ends up with these kind of stats :

 

From Jan 1st, 1993 till the 2011 World cup, which is a period of over 18 years, Tendulkar compiled these numbers, through all his ups and downs:

Mat: 157 Innings : 259 Not outs: 30 Runs: 13607 Average: 59.41 Centuries: 47 Fifties : 55 , % innings with 50+score: 39.38%

In these 18 years, his lowest average is in Pakistan, which is still a whopping 44.66 and respectable anywhere. he averages crazy 63+ vs australia and 64+ in ausralia, 51+ in South Africa ( though only 44 vs them, his lowest overall average against a side in this period), averages 61 vs England and 62 in England, 52 vs NZ and 55 in NZ  and 57+ vs West Indies and 47+ in west Indies.

Put this in context - for all the SENA VIRAT SENA VIRAT we go, Tendu was BAAP of Viraat in SENA for a period far longer than ENTIRE Kohli's career.

In short, Tendu is one guy massively underrated due to his overall stats, because he came in undercooked as a 16 year old and didnt produce ATG numbers till another 4-5 years later, as he grew to be an adult and might i point out, no ATG has ever dominated in batting as a 16-17 year old either to my memory. Closest i think is a 19 or 20 year old Sobers announcing his presence and going on to become one of the greatest batsmen ever - even the great Don was 20+ when he scored his first ton.

As well as he had a mini Kohli-esque decline.

Yet, if we simply take the 18 year period of Tendu's career that is 'after his early undercooked days and before his post world cup slump', he STILL ends up as the greatest batsman since the Don,having more runs, higher average, more tons and higher 50% innings rate than pretty much anyone else by a comfortable margin and would STILL be the #1 run getter in test cricket.

 

[littlemaster1982]

Kohli's game is built on no-risk approach. He had cut out all risky shots from his arsenal, that's the reason why he doesn't play on backfoot, doesn't come down to spinners or sweep them, wouldn't play shots on air. Almost 90% of his ODI 100s were peppered with singles and twos, with occasional fours. Once he is set and crossed 50-60 runs, he makes up for the strike rate and even end up with 100+SR. Check his 100 against NZ in semis and his breakout innings vs SL (Malinga game), and you could see this trajectory. This also required a batsman at the other end, who is willing to take risks and enforce the run rate.

 

He figured out a method that worked well for him, and I appreciate him for that. But for me, it made a very boring watch and I didn't have the same excitement as others. I'm actually surprised he made so many runs with his limited range of shots and the opponents took this long to figure him out.

[StraightDrive26]

7 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

 

Sachin was also a very compact batsman and didnt go fishing very wide off his off stump in test cricket, unless it was also very short and then he just clubbed it wherever he wished.

People forget that Sachin was a bona-fide great test batsman by his mid-late 20s, while Virat never was and while Sachin crossed 50 average entering his adulthood, Virat only touched 50 nearing his 30th bday and well into the peak of his career.

People also don't factor in, Sachin came into the team undercooked - he was a raw 16 year old on potential only and no 16 year old is a finished batsman, no matter how great they end up being and despite this, in the period he was 16-20, he averaged 35 odd in test cricket, in an era where there were only 2-3 batsmen going around averaging 50 in test cricket in the whole world (in late 80s-early 90s, i cant think of anyone except Border,Richards & Miandad having 50+ averages, maybe Steve Waugh already had 50+ by then but maybe not coz Tugga had a slow allrounder-ish start to his first few years of career) and another 7-8 who were averaging 40+ in test cricket ( except for Greenidge, Haynes,Richardson, Gooch, Azharuddin,Crowe,Dean Jones and maybe couple others no one else was around averaging 40+ in test cricket either)

Plus, he had a mini Kohli-esque decline by the time he was pushing 40 but was humble and smart enough to call it quits after 2 years.
If you take these two periods out of his career, he still ends up with these kind of stats :

 

From Jan 1st, 1993 till the 2011 World cup, which is a period of over 18 years, Tendulkar compiled these numbers, through all his ups and downs:

Mat: 157 Innings : 259 Not outs: 30 Runs: 13607 Average: 59.41 Centuries: 47 Fifties : 55 , % innings with 50+score: 39.38%

In these 18 years, his lowest average is in Pakistan, which is still a whopping 44.66 and respectable anywhere. he averages crazy 63+ vs australia and 64+ in ausralia, 51+ in South Africa ( though only 44 vs them, his lowest overall average against a side in this period), averages 61 vs England and 62 in England, 52 vs NZ and 55 in NZ  and 57+ vs West Indies and 47+ in west Indies.

Put this in context - for all the SENA VIRAT SENA VIRAT we go, Tendu was BAAP of Viraat in SENA for a period far longer than ENTIRE Kohli's career.

In short, Tendu is one guy massively underrated due to his overall stats, because he came in undercooked as a 16 year old and didnt produce ATG numbers till another 4-5 years later, as he grew to be an adult and might i point out, no ATG has ever dominated in batting as a 16-17 year old either to my memory. Closest i think is a 19 or 20 year old Sobers announcing his presence and going on to become one of the greatest batsmen ever - even the great Don was 20+ when he scored his first ton.

As well as he had a mini Kohli-esque decline.

Yet, if we simply take the 18 year period of Tendu's career that is 'after his early undercooked days and before his post world cup slump', he STILL ends up as the greatest batsman since the Don,having more runs, higher average, more tons and higher 50% innings rate than pretty much anyone else by a comfortable margin and would STILL be the #1 run getter in test cricket.

 

But again Sachin as a 18 year was much better than most of the batters playing in this era. Hundreds in England, Australia & SA before he turned 19 is phenomenal. Like everyone said when Sachin retired, we will never see anyone like him again but we will get many Kohli's in Tests in the future. 

[Vijy]

2 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

 

Sachin was also a very compact batsman and didnt go fishing very wide off his off stump in test cricket, unless it was also very short and then he just clubbed it wherever he wished.

People forget that Sachin was a bona-fide great test batsman by his mid-late 20s, while Virat never was and while Sachin crossed 50 average entering his adulthood, Virat only touched 50 nearing his 30th bday and well into the peak of his career.

People also don't factor in, Sachin came into the team undercooked - he was a raw 16 year old on potential only and no 16 year old is a finished batsman, no matter how great they end up being and despite this, in the period he was 16-20, he averaged 35 odd in test cricket, in an era where there were only 2-3 batsmen going around averaging 50 in test cricket in the whole world (in late 80s-early 90s, i cant think of anyone except Border,Richards & Miandad having 50+ averages, maybe Steve Waugh already had 50+ by then but maybe not coz Tugga had a slow allrounder-ish start to his first few years of career) and another 7-8 who were averaging 40+ in test cricket ( except for Greenidge, Haynes,Richardson, Gooch, Azharuddin,Crowe,Dean Jones and maybe couple others no one else was around averaging 40+ in test cricket either)

Plus, he had a mini Kohli-esque decline by the time he was pushing 40 but was humble and smart enough to call it quits after 2 years.
If you take these two periods out of his career, he still ends up with these kind of stats :

 

From Jan 1st, 1993 till the 2011 World cup, which is a period of over 18 years, Tendulkar compiled these numbers, through all his ups and downs:

Mat: 157 Innings : 259 Not outs: 30 Runs: 13607 Average: 59.41 Centuries: 47 Fifties : 55 , % innings with 50+score: 39.38%

In these 18 years, his lowest average is in Pakistan, which is still a whopping 44.66 and respectable anywhere. he averages crazy 63+ vs australia and 64+ in ausralia, 51+ in South Africa ( though only 44 vs them, his lowest overall average against a side in this period), averages 61 vs England and 62 in England, 52 vs NZ and 55 in NZ  and 57+ vs West Indies and 47+ in west Indies.

Put this in context - for all the SENA VIRAT SENA VIRAT we go, Tendu was BAAP of Viraat in SENA for a period far longer than ENTIRE Kohli's career.

In short, Tendu is one guy massively underrated due to his overall stats, because he came in undercooked as a 16 year old and didnt produce ATG numbers till another 4-5 years later, as he grew to be an adult and might i point out, no ATG has ever dominated in batting as a 16-17 year old either to my memory. Closest i think is a 19 or 20 year old Sobers announcing his presence and going on to become one of the greatest batsmen ever - even the great Don was 20+ when he scored his first ton.

As well as he had a mini Kohli-esque decline.

Yet, if we simply take the 18 year period of Tendu's career that is 'after his early undercooked days and before his post world cup slump', he STILL ends up as the greatest batsman since the Don,having more runs, higher average, more tons and higher 50% innings rate than pretty much anyone else by a comfortable margin and would STILL be the #1 run getter in test cricket.

 

I've seen players from late 1960s, and my father saw players from 1940s to 2000s (saw Bradman too, in fact). We both felt that, speaking purely in terms of complete all-round game technically, SRT was the best post-Bradman.