Looks like we finally broke Bumrah :(

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, lemsip said:

India won at the Gabba without Bumrah and can do so here as well. In fact, defending the total on a very helpful surface makes every seamer much more dangerous than they normally are. This is what happened with Reddy getting alarming lift off a length. If the bowlers can keep diiscipline and control, this is the kind of pitch that you can bowl magic wicket taking deliveries without relying on high level skill like Bumrah has. Just need a leader who can keep the sometimes inconsistent bowling attack disciplined if they lose control and it will be fine. Of course if Bumrah can bowl then great but the team should think positively on how to get the batsmen out not about Bumrah. Of course if he is available then nothing like it.

 

They have to give everything. Soomeone has to pull off Shamar Joseph spell. My only worry is they have some fluke batsmen who can get away. But as long as they give 100% i am okay with any result. Scotty B completely turned the game in Australia's favor. We need to collectively do that to turn in our favor.

[Vijy]

2 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

They have to give everything. Soomeone has to pull off Shamar Joseph spell. My only worry is they have some fluke batsmen who can get away. But as long as they give 100% i am okay with any result. Scotty B completely turned the game in Australia's favor. We need to collectively do that to turn in our favor.

joseph has attributes that our pacers do not, apart from boom

[Muloghonto]

Just now, Arvind32 said:

Have you checked Prasidh speed yesterday? Most of the time he was around 140 and some of his deliveries were touching 142 . Mostly Prasidh is around 145 type of bowler . There were more like around India with smooth action. Unfortunately we do not need those type of bowlers . We need bowlers who have unique edge like Bumrah or Nasser Shah kind of. 
 

Yes  agree with it . With smooth action it may be easier on body . But  smoiotg action hardly had any edge over sophisticated. actions . We need good output rather than smooth actions . 

Yes, we need good output and with Bumrah we dont have good output, we have God tier output.

But these sophisticated actions carry a cost - they cannot do a cummins or ambrose and bowl 8-10 overs on the trot, take an hour and half break and do it again and go off the field exhausted as heck on a consistent basic without getting injured.

If u have action that is not smooth, it means u have to be used in short bursts to not lead u to muscle exhaustion. else u enter territory of 'jerking muscle till exhaustion = injury hell' zone.

Its not even about complicated action per se, just about jerkyness. This is why even a smooth action like Waqar or Shoaib or Malinga - where there is no jerk in delivery action but a huge jump jerk on the knee due to round arm action ( all round arm bowlers have a big leap, plonk their right leg down and twist HARD on it to get the round arm action)- were not good as stock bowlers who can bowl 5-6 overs on the trot and come back in an hour and do it again.

Because that is too impactful on the knees and that is how you will kill ur knees - much like what happened to Jeff Thompson.

Bumrah is a ferrari. What Rohit wants is an ambassador. If you drive a ferrari like an ambasssador, that is the best way to kill ur ferarri. Doesnt mean the ferarri is at fault or the ferarri is a shittier car than Ambassador, it just means u used it wrong. Much like how we are doing with Bumrah this series.

 

[wanted_desi]

Hopefully he will return for England series. 

[The Dark Horse]

His body can take only that much 

[Frustrated]

If he was not fully fit, why did he play??  

Edited January 5 by Frustrated

[Vijy]

37 minutes ago, Frustrated said:

If he was not fully fit, why did he play??  

To show his heroism

[MechEng]

On 1/5/2025 at 2:15 AM, Muloghonto said:

Bumrah is a ferrari. What Rohit wants is an ambassador. If you drive a ferrari like an ambasssador, that is the best way to kill ur ferarri. Doesnt mean the ferarri is at fault or the ferarri is a shittier car than Ambassador, it just means u used it wrong. Much like how we are doing with Bumrah this series.

 

 

I can picture Bumrah talking like a heartbroken girlfriend to Rohit - "You always use me :("

Edited January 6 by MechEng

[express bowling]

On 1/5/2025 at 1:58 AM, Muloghonto said:

 

Prasidh hasnt even bowled a single ball that is 137 and mostly bowls 130-133 range.

 

 

 

Agree or even strongly agree with many of your points in this thread.

 

But not this one.

 

Prasidh was regularly 135 k to 142 k in the 5th test 1st innings. Entire overs were bowled at 139 k to 141 k in some cases.

 

In his debut test series in SA, he averaged 139 k+ in the 2nd test 1st innings and bowled a fastest of almost 148 kph in his first test.

 

Has bowled 140 k to 147 k spells in ODIs.

[express bowling]

In India, pacers who generate or generated easy pace via repeatable actions are ( chronologically )

 

Srinath .. 140 k+ ( retired )

Umesh .. 140 k+ or 145 k+. ( but done now )

Shami .. 140 k+

Harshit .. 140 k+

Prasidh .. 140 k+ or 137 k+

Kuldeep Sen .. 143 k+ 

Umran .. 147 k+.

Akashdeep .. 135 k+

Mayank .. 150 k+

 

( you can see these speeds 3 to 4 times an over in some spells )

 

Ishant, Siraj, Saini, and Tyagi were / are inconsistent in terms of bowling near their full pace.

 

Bumrah is very quick and could be 145 k+ in some spells till 2022 but generates pace via an explosive action. 

[StraightDrive26]

On 1/4/2025 at 2:43 PM, rkt.india said:

Bowling 20-22 overs per inning is not over-bowling. 

When you have a strike bowler like Bumrah, you use him in short bursts. 5 overs a spell max but Rohit and India kept bowling him longer because the other bowlers were incapable of taking wickets. The weather was extremely hot here in Australia and the last thing you want is bowl someone like Bumrah for 6-7 overs straight every spell. That is what is called managing work load. No one asked Rohit to play Nitish Reddy, Jadeja and Sundar to mask the failure they have been with the bat. Having Nitish meant that India did not have a 4th seamer which cost us terribly. 

 

Not all bowlers are the same and fitness has nothing to do with this. Bumarh off-course is fit. If you are not you cannot bowl so many overs in different formats like Bumrah does. The management of such bowlers with unique action which can be demanding on their body is an art in itself. I remember Sachin did that in the 90's when he over bowled Srinath in 1996/97 when he was the captain and got the later gone for a while with shoulder injury. He missed out on that tour to WI in 97 which India 100% would have won with Srinath in the side. 

 

Rohit did similar. There are certain bowlers who are work horses, who can bowl many overs due to their repeatable actions and run up etc. Someone like Scott Boland fall in that category. Cummins also falls in that category but when you have a bowler like Bumrah, Malinga, Akthar etc, you need to deal with them differently. Bowl them in 5 over spells, given them enough breaks between spells so that their body can recuperate etc. Even when Australia had Brett Lee, they would use him in short bursts and bowlers like McGrath, Gillespie, Flemming etc will bowl the long spells. Just because you have this once in a generation bowler in the side you cannot bowl him from both ends. While watching this series sometimes I felt he was bowling from both ends thats how much I saw him bowl. In terms of overs bowled it might not have looked that way but when you looked at it Bumrah hardly had breaks between spells. The issue was that we were carrying two duds with the bat and to compensate for it we were playing couple of batters who could bowl. In 2021 India were playing Shardul Thakur and Ashwin bowled lots of overs in Adelaide and Melbourne to give breaks to the pacers but here Rohit wasn't confident enough to use his spinners. Reddy is a good 5th bowler but cannot be the 4th seamer in the XI as he lacks pace and accuracy for it. He is someone like Sourav Ganguly in the 90s for India.

 

The reason Bumrah broke down is because how badly his spells were managed through the series. It is unfortunate that India did not have Shami as if we did that could have reduced the load on Bumrah. That's what was different between this BGT and the 2020/21 series. In that series wickets were shared, even Ashwin picked up 12 wickets in 3 Tests but here it was Bumrah or bust and the captain did not know how to handle that situation and thought overbowling his premier bowler was the solution.

[MK55]

13 hours ago, express bowling said:

In India, pacers who generate or generated easy pace via repeatable actions are ( chronologically )

 

Srinath .. 140 k+ ( retired )

Umesh .. 140 k+ or 145 k+. ( but done now )

Shami .. 140 k+

Harshit .. 140 k+

Prasidh .. 140 k+ or 137 k+

Kuldeep Sen .. 143 k+ 

Umran .. 147 k+.

Akashdeep .. 135 k+

Mayank .. 150 k+

 

( you can see these speeds 3 to 4 times an over in some spells )

 

Ishant, Siraj, Saini, and Tyagi were / are inconsistent in terms of bowling near their full pace.

 

Bumrah is very quick and could be 145 k+ in some spells till 2022 but generates pace via an explosive action. 

Umran in a full ipl season (where he clocked 157) or in internationals against Sri Lanka / Bangladesh had bowled multiple balls at 150 plus in a spell.

Whereas Mayank after debuting in internationals looked to be bowling 140-150.

So those two are similar pace wise with Umran probably stronger which could help him in staying fit relatively.

[Adamant]

We don't have tall, strongly built bowlers due to genetics. If someone is tall, his body is frail and vice versa.

 

On the other hand the 4 Aussie pacers and even the pace allrounders are all physical specimen, all of them above 6'3 and built like a tank.

Actually, I went to Kotla in 2023 when we had the BGT, when Cummins came out to bat he was looking like a Giant in front of all the eleven Indian players. He is that big, TV visuals don't really tell the whole story.

Edited January 7 by Adamant

[Adamant]

Bumrah is an ATG bowler and will probably end up as a GOAT contender, he can move the ball both ways at 140 kph, now that is enough to trouble any kind of batsman on any surface, but its a rare gift, there haven't been many pacers in history who could do that. This rare ability helps him compensate for the short height, this can also be seen in other ATG bowlers who were short, Marshall and Dale Steyn had the same ability which helped them overcome their height barrier.

 

Now, its obvious that we won't get another similar ATG bowler as they are once in a generation player, so what we need are two pacers who are atleast 6'0 and have a strong build, by strong I mean their body shouldn't be frail like Prasidh or Ishant. 

 

The only candidates I can see are  - Harshit Rana, Kartik Tyagi, Mayank Yadav (a bit short but has high pace).

 

BCCI should invest all their resources on building these three if they want us to become an ATG red ball team.

[raki05]

10 minutes ago, Adamant said:

Bumrah is an ATG bowler and will probably end up as a GOAT contender, he can move the ball both ways at 140 kph, now that is enough to trouble any kind of batsman on any surface, but its a rare gift, there haven't been many pacers in history who could do that. This rare ability helps him compensate for the short height, this can also be seen in other ATG bowlers who were short, Marshall and Dale Steyn had the same ability which helped them overcome their height barrier.

 

Now, its obvious that we won't get another similar ATG bowler as they are once in a generation player, so what we need are two pacers who are atleast 6'0 and have a strong build, by strong I mean their body shouldn't be frail like Prasidh or Ishant. 

 

The only candidates I can see are  - Harshit Rana, Kartik Tyagi, Mayank Yadav (a bit short but has high pace).

 

BCCI should invest all their resources on building these three if they want us to become an ATG red ball team.

Mayank is also 6 . I completely agree, bcci should have taken these 3 bowlers in their wing and put them under high performance coaching hire best bowling coaches in the world not the famous bowlers who became coach . Also grind them more and more in domestic atleast one or two full season.

[Majestic]

In an ideal scenario, Bumrah should skip this season IPL. This year the focus should be on England test series because in last 8 tests, we have lost 6 and got away with a draw in 1 game. Champions Trophy also happens in first half only so the second half is relatively lighter.

 

Next year, the test schedule is very light so he can put his efforts and focus towards IPL. There will be only 4 tests next year(2 in SL and 2 in NZ) and he can focus on WT20 and IPL for that year.

 

But right now, he is already out of the gas and has to play a CT, IPL and a 5 match England series in England over next 7 months. He must skip IPL this year for the team’s cause.

[Nikhil_cric]

2 hours ago, Adamant said:

Bumrah is an ATG bowler and will probably end up as a GOAT contender, he can move the ball both ways at 140 kph, now that is enough to trouble any kind of batsman on any surface, but its a rare gift, there haven't been many pacers in history who could do that. This rare ability helps him compensate for the short height, this can also be seen in other ATG bowlers who were short, Marshall and Dale Steyn had the same ability which helped them overcome their height barrier.

 

Now, its obvious that we won't get another similar ATG bowler as they are once in a generation player, so what we need are two pacers who are atleast 6'0 and have a strong build, by strong I mean their body shouldn't be frail like Prasidh or Ishant. 

 

The only candidates I can see are  - Harshit Rana, Kartik Tyagi, Mayank Yadav (a bit short but has high pace).

 

BCCI should invest all their resources on building these three if they want us to become an ATG red ball team.

 

Mayank is 6'1". 

 

 

[Adamant]

1 hour ago, Nikhil_cric said:

 

Mayank is 6'1". 

 

 

He is shorter than Kl Rahul, what is Rahuls height?

[singhvivek141]

53 minutes ago, Adamant said:

He is shorter than Kl Rahul, what is Rahuls height?

Mayank is bit slouched in this frame.

Anyway, there are some pics where Mayank looks almost as tall Bumrah (if not taller). And Bumrah is atleast 6 feet.

[Lord]

7 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Mayank is bit slouched in this frame.

Anyway, there are some pics where Mayank looks almost as tall Bumrah (if not taller). And Bumrah is atleast 6 feet.

 

Bumrah is 5'10"