mishra Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 Which country has become a Superpower or significant power without a Industrial Revolution? Which period of India can be considered if India ever had industrial revolution? Answer to both questions is “ None” Make in India is just seed of Industrial Revolution Muloghonto 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharathh Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 2 hours ago, BlueBlood said: DeepSpeech made a splash because it directly competed against o1 reasoning model that OpenAI released just in december ya putz. Until then Qwen (Alibaba) and their VLM (video language models) were very good on par with Llama 3 which is arguably #2 after OpenAI. The idiocy of India is that the whole political leadership relies on brainwashed bots with half knowledge backing them in every which way talking about things. You keep talking about "We need to", "we should" blah blah. India is nowhere in the AI sphere even with having the LARGEST number of software engineers in the world by far. France with Mistral is miles ahead of India. Even freaking Canada with Cohere. It's abject failure of Modi and his favoritism of Adani and Ambani is the reason for this. China is already inching towards US level. India is not even in top 10 of AI research or products LOL. When will you bots understand that you have been mislead and accept your stupidity at world stage? OpenAI, Meta etc. developed on top of Google's T5 to kickstart the GenAI race. How did the US govt help with that? What in your opinion did the US govt do to grow AI? What did the French or Canadian govt do for Mistral/Cohere? All these grew primarily from private investment - without govt inteference. So according to you we need to get the govt to spend on creating AI models when we can leverage existing models for free and make them better? How - in your opinion - does this help? I am not saying R&D in AI is not important. We don't have comparable tech or research infra to compete. Better to leverage what we are good at. Not sure how self-flaggelation helps in any way. China started out using existing machinery, processes from Japan and the West to get started. Only after many decades of copycatting and stealing IP have they in a position to surge ahead. Good on them. We will catch up at some point. Lamenting about this instead of focusing on what is possible makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharathh Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 (edited) 2 hours ago, BlueBlood said: DeepSpeech made a splash because it directly competed against o1 reasoning model that OpenAI released just in december ya putz. Until then Qwen (Alibaba) and their VLM (video language models) were very good on par with Llama 3 which is arguably #2 after OpenAI. The idiocy of India is that the whole political leadership relies on brainwashed bots with half knowledge backing them in every which way talking about things. You keep talking about "We need to", "we should" blah blah. India is nowhere in the AI sphere even with having the LARGEST number of software engineers in the world by far. France with Mistral is miles ahead of India. Even freaking Canada with Cohere. It's abject failure of Modi and his favoritism of Adani and Ambani is the reason for this. China is already inching towards US level. India is not even in top 10 of AI research or products LOL. When will you bots understand that you have been mislead and accept your stupidity at world stage? Btw software engineering and AI research are poles apart. Software engineers help you build software. You need Data Scientists, Mathematicians, etc. to build AI models. Leveraging AI models to create impact is something Software engineers can do - which the Indian ecosystem has plenty of companies in. The VC market in India has a ton of companies that are building software on top of these models. That said, this is a low growth area as companies are excited to experiment with this tech - but there is little mainstream adoption at the moment due to all the issues I talked about earlier. Leveraging existing models to create software on top of these models is revenue generating. This is something all companies are doing. This hits the sweet spot in terms of our current profile of engineers. Our engineering cream is helping create AI for Google/OpenAI/Mistral etc unfortunately. Is this going to change without wholesale changes to our education system or scrapping things like the SC/ST act, caste based reservations,etc.? No. Govt funding in this will be a waste of money. Better to get the private players to invest in this. I think Mahindra, Reliance etc are putting money into this field. Hopefully, we will see results soon. Regardless, I believe your agenda is to just lament and parrot inanities - so pls go ahead. Edited January 30 by bharathh coffee_rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechEng Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 27 minutes ago, mishra said: Which country has become a Superpower or significant power without a Industrial Revolution? Which period of India can be considered if India ever had industrial revolution? Answer to both questions is “ None” Make in India is just seed of Industrial Revolution Hence India will not become a developed nation at least in our lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 @bharathhI have a different take on IT industry. It’s correct that we don’t build OS or Software like Java, oracle or SAP, android and so on. But we have a 300+ billion USD software exports and millions of jobs in IT industry leveraging those softwares. I call this model as US+1 model where we peacefully coexist with US Industries in a win win situation. We can argue on cons of not developing a deep seek or baidu or TikTok. But i see it avoids us being at odds with US. Think Nanadan Nilekani made the comment on deepseek along similar lines as I mentioned above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 2 minutes ago, MechEng said: Hence India will not become a developed nation at least in our lifetime. Unfortunately yes. Unless Make in India and atmaNirbhar Bharat becomes functional. We made car engine via Indica in this century. Kaveri engine for drones is made in this decade. Next will be engines for fighter jet and commercial planes. To me, these two are next big steps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechEng Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 (edited) Reliance and Mahindra do not innovate, I've worked in one of those companies for 4 years. We are still a risk averse society and rightfully so, what else do you expect from a society with median income of INR 1.8 lacs per annum? Edited January 30 by MechEng Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharathh Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 15 minutes ago, MechEng said: Hence India will not become a developed nation at least in our lifetime. It will not. Until we get rid of affirmative action, become a nation that takes pride in cleanliness and orderliness, address the rampant corruption in our society (not just govt), address fundamental issues like providing citizens with the basics - clean water, air etc. it doesn't matter what our GDP is—we are not going to become developed anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 (edited) 6 minutes ago, MechEng said: Reliance and Mahindra do not innovate, ive worked inone of those companies for 4 years. We are still a risk averse society and rightfully so, what else do you expect from a society with median income of INR 1.8 lacs per annum? True. Miney is key. Reason we got Indica was because a great son of India decided to make it. Tata pumped all the money drom TCS into making the car and he effectively made cash cow TCS public to balance the Indica expenses . Once again, We can only bridge this gap by convincing US that you need US+1 strategy. Do Tech transfer of high end stuff and with our manpowe, together we can increase the sale as well as adaptations of their products. Edited January 30 by mishra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharathh Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 17 minutes ago, mishra said: @bharathhI have a different take on IT industry. It’s correct that we don’t build OS or Software like Java, oracle or SAP, android and so on. But we have a 300+ billion USD software exports and millions of jobs in IT industry leveraging those softwares. I call this model as US+1 model where we peacefully coexist with US Industries in a win win situation. We can argue on cons of not developing a deep seek or baidu or TikTok. But i see it avoids us being at odds with US. Think Nanadan Nilekani made the comment on deepseek along similar lines as I mentioned above. We are entrenched in the services mindset - because it gets us money and creates employment. The govt also encourages this because of the employment opportunities created from services. R&D infrastructure and resources are not there yet. In a decade or so, once companies move out of the US and setup more R&D centers here - we will be in a better position to compete. Our fundamentals are too weak for an organic R&D culture to flourish without artificial seeding from outside. It would be great if we had a flourishing R&D culture. The sad fact is that it will not happen. Not with our current education system and tendency to shy away from risk. That said, we can leverage other people's work to create value - which is something we are good at. ravishingravi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharathh Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 4 minutes ago, mishra said: True. Miney is key. Reason we got Indica was because a great son of India decided to make it. Tata pumped all the money drom TCS into making the car and he effectively made TCS public balance the Indica bill. Once again, We can only bridge this gap by convincing US that you need US+1 strategy. Do Tech transfer of high end stuff and with our manpowe, together we can increase the sale as well as adaptations of their products. Hopefully, Trump cracking down on immigration and citizenship will force companies to shift to India when they find people don't want to come there only for 2-3 yrs without any path to citizenship there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharathh Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 11 minutes ago, MechEng said: Reliance and Mahindra do not innovate, I've worked in one of those companies for 4 years. We are still a risk averse society and rightfully so, what else do you expect from a society with median income of INR 1.8 lacs per annum? Apparently, Mahindra AI and Reliance AI are taking this seriously. Can only be hopeful. I agree that typically they are not innovators. That said, Mahindra has done extremely well with innovation in their automobiles and farming equipment section lately. Perhaps they will get more R&D oriented in Software and hardware as well. ravishingravi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 4 minutes ago, bharathh said: We are entrenched in the services mindset - because it gets us money and creates employment. The govt also encourages this because of the employment opportunities created from services. R&D infrastructure and resources are not there yet. In a decade or so, once companies move out of the US and setup more R&D centers here - we will be in a better position to compete. Our fundamentals are too weak for an organic R&D culture to flourish without artificial seeding from outside. It would be great if we had a flourishing R&D culture. The sad fact is that it will not happen. Not with our current education system and tendency to shy away from risk. That said, we can leverage other people's work to create value - which is something we are good at. To make a OS like Linux, android, microsoft or TikTok or products of companies like Oracle Amazon Meta or languages, Trust me, You just need just one batch of Comp Science graduates from any of our many reputed colleges and they will do it all in a span of 4 to 5 years. And it will be bug free as well . We are just avoiding a clash with major powers because if Russia China Japan can be brought to knees, India has no chance.so, Buy the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharathh Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 5 minutes ago, mishra said: To make a OS like Linux, android, microsoft or TikTok or products of companies like Oracle Amazon Meta or languages, Trust me, You just need just one batch of Comp Science graduates from any of our many reputed colleges and they will do it all in a span of 4 to 5 years. And it will be bug free as well . We are just avoiding a clash with major powers because if Russia China Japan can be brought to knees, India has no chance.so, Buy the time You need a mass of people to use the product as well. Koo was a decent product. We didn't have ppl using it as everyone preferred using Twitter, Threads etc. Unlike in China where their products get a captive audience to gain mass and generate revenue from our products will not. Creating an alternative to Whatsapp is possible. How many ppl will actually use it though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 (edited) 4 minutes ago, bharathh said: You need a mass of people to use the product as well. Koo was a decent product. We didn't have ppl using it as everyone preferred using Twitter, Threads etc. Unlike in China where their products get a captive audience to gain mass and generate revenue from our products will not. Creating an alternative to Whatsapp is possible. How many ppl will actually use it though? China has money heft and penetration to market its stuff. Hence I say, lets live in peace with US. Just need to convince US that we are not China. Even US knows that since Indian culture is different to China, hence Our reactions and actions will be different in a given scenario Edited January 30 by mishra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 In case people think its all doom and gloom, some positive news is that we have got know how to produce 25 kn and 60kn thrust engines which is good enough to mass produce UAV and drones or 6th generation wingman. We need to make a 100 kn engine to produce serious figter jet. How or where we get it from is trillion dollar question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharathh Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 2 hours ago, BlueBlood said: CANADIAN government gave $300 million compute grant to Cohere. France termed Mistral as national treasure and with EU put regulations on other companies to protect Mistral. If they didn't do that all of Mistral engineers would join Meta as Yann LeCunn the chief AI scientist for Meta built his team in Paris and still lives there. Where do you BJP stooges even get your information from? Why do you have to religiously defend the abject failure that is Modi. They are still fighting over 28% GST on popcorn and ghee on buns to screw the middle class and poor. There is no leadership in AI. All slogans and you fall for it with your stupidity without checking for facts. I pity people like you. Must be hard to live in denial in your delusional world daily. Where have I mentioned Modi/BJP or anything related to politics in my posts here? I think you need to get your derangement syndrome checked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharathh Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 Scary - https://www.wiz.io/blog/wiz-research-uncovers-exposed-deepseek-database-leak InfoSec another area of critical importance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 41 minutes ago, bharathh said: Where have I mentioned Modi/BJP or anything related to politics in my posts here? I think you need to get your derangement syndrome checked out. You said 'govt', he reads it as Modi/BJP/Adani/Ambani/Andh-Bhakt/HindenbergResearch. bharathh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomGuy Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 (edited) 11 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: You said 'govt', he reads it as Modi/BJP/Adani/Ambani/Andh-Bhakt/HindenbergResearch. 54 minutes ago, bharathh said: Where have I mentioned Modi/BJP or anything related to politics in my posts here? I think you need to get your derangement syndrome checked out. I am sure he believes he himself or RG/UPA-parties (and not china) developed/funded deepseek AI and will develop future AI's as well, that's why he keeps calling others idiots... Edited January 30 by randomGuy coffee_rules and bharathh 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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