bharathh Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 1 minute ago, randomGuy said: I am sure he believes he himself or RG/UPA-parties (and not china) developed/funded deepseek AI and will develop future AI's as well, that's why he keeps calling others idiots... Our erstwhile FM under UPA laughed at the concept of UPI asking if it made sense for a kirana wala to allow for digital payments. Anyways, looks like Deepseek has lit a fire under every country's ass - including India now. Pretty good start for India I would say. Better late than never https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/govt-to-issue-notice-to-procure-more-gpus-under-indiaai-mission-12924377.html randomGuy and coffee_rules 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 7 hours ago, bharathh said: Btw software engineering and AI research are poles apart. Software engineers help you build software. You need Data Scientists, Mathematicians, etc. to build AI models. Leveraging AI models to create impact is something Software engineers can do - which the Indian ecosystem has plenty of companies in. The VC market in India has a ton of companies that are building software on top of these models. That said, this is a low growth area as companies are excited to experiment with this tech - but there is little mainstream adoption at the moment due to all the issues I talked about earlier. Leveraging existing models to create software on top of these models is revenue generating. This is something all companies are doing. This hits the sweet spot in terms of our current profile of engineers. Our engineering cream is helping create AI for Google/OpenAI/Mistral etc unfortunately. Is this going to change without wholesale changes to our education system or scrapping things like the SC/ST act, caste based reservations,etc.? No. Govt funding in this will be a waste of money. Better to get the private players to invest in this. I think Mahindra, Reliance etc are putting money into this field. Hopefully, we will see results soon. Regardless, I believe your agenda is to just lament and parrot inanities - so pls go ahead. So true, China is miles ahead of India in tehnology not because of software engineers, but their investment in Engineering of finished products. They took technology from West and added value . Like in Telecom/Networking they (Huawei) copied from Cisco/QC/Lucent etc and by the time LTE was announced, they started selling telecom prods back to US and other countries. Initially, their products were buggy/loq-quality , but with repeated engineers working 12 hours a day inb their factories, they are getting better everyday. India or West cannot follow the China model and start government investing money into technology without any accountability. That's because of democracy . China also invested a lot in political lobbying , they have agents in every foreign government, industrial complexes, private companies (Industrial espionage). Stuff for movies, I suppose. randomGuy and bharathh 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 (edited) 3 hours ago, BlueBlood said: Not what Vishwaguru claims. We are the #1 country in the world according to him and his stooges. Show me a quote or link that anybody Vishwaguru or his so-called bhakts here in ICF are claiming that we are the #1 country in the world. Superlative argument. 3 hours ago, BlueBlood said: $300 billion is software exports with no AI infrastructure or research base simply means all of these will be taken over by AI. Expect massive recession in India in the next 5-10 years with the mindset of that idiot at Infosys who wants all research and dev to be done overseas and he just provides "services" as a body shop forever. No, AI is still nascent and there is a lot of fear-mongering over losing jobs to AI. Not sure, I will be aroiund in the next 5-10 years, but AI hashTag is hyped lke ClimateChange in both SM and MSM. 3 hours ago, BlueBlood said: China, US, Europe and others will happily move ahead into robotics and other value add products that are hard problems to solve. Once the software layer becomes redundant when AI writes its own code or refactors it automatically, the entire QA industry in India will be dead. LMAO. AI at present AI is nothing, but DeepFake and used in SM by teenagers to gawk at videos at what it can do. Meta / WhatsApp AI is a glogified Google search . There are no AI code generators which can automatically plug in code into production code. Bade aaye - "AI writes its own code or refactors it automatically"; coders generate code from ChatGPT/AI/RationalRose/NextJS and use it without knowing how it affects security, There are no type restrictions in code generators that produce code like in typescript that these ChatGPT scripts generate. It requires experienced developers to know this stuff. AI can't do it automaticlly. 3 hours ago, BlueBlood said: Then average software engineers will be next as there's zero robotics or manufacturing base in India. All talk and no action while chest thumping is the problem. zero Robotics and manufacturing base and software engineers losing jobs in India? Are you typing responses from DeepSeek? Not making sense. 3 hours ago, BlueBlood said: Look at 28% GST for example: everyone knows it's a regressive tax on the poor but Nirmala tai has gone to war against anyone who opposes this communist european level regressive tax. Yet BJP stooges will support this as a capitalist and pro-market move. Simple question to you.. What did GST replace? What was before GST? Do you know what is state controlled "VAT"? Edited January 30 by coffee_rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 6 hours ago, BlueBlood said: Not what Vishwaguru claims. We are the #1 country in the world according to him and his stooges. $300 billion is software exports with no AI infrastructure or research base simply means all of these will be taken over by AI. Expect massive recession in India in the next 5-10 years with the mindset of that idiot at Infosys who wants all research and dev to be done overseas and he just provides "services" as a body shop forever. China, US, Europe and others will happily move ahead into robotics and other value add products that are hard problems to solve. Once the software layer becomes redundant when AI writes its own code or refactors it automatically, the entire QA industry in India will be dead. Then average software engineers will be next as there's zero robotics or manufacturing base in India. All talk and no action while chest thumping is the problem. Look at 28% GST for example: everyone knows it's a regressive tax on the poor but Nirmala tai has gone to war against anyone who opposes this communist european level regressive tax. Yet BJP stooges will support this as a capitalist and pro-market move. This is 2025. Not 2125 where these fantasies of 'jobless software developers' is gonna come to fruition. Guess which sector is LEAST worried about its existence due to AI ? software development and web security. Coz let me let you in on a little secret - the I part of AI is a scam - its not really intelligent, as in sentient intelligence,its just good at parsing database of info and basic deductions. If you think AI is gonna make software engineers obsolete, all it tells me is that you dont know anything about software engineering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 2 hours ago, coffee_rules said: Show me a quote or link that anybody Vishwaguru or his so-called bhakts here in ICF are claiming that we are the #1 country in the world. Superlative argument. No, AI is still nascent and there is a lot of fear-mongering over losing jobs to AI. Not sure, I will be aroiund in the next 5-10 years, but AI hashTag is hyped lke ClimateChange in both SM and MSM. LMAO. AI at present AI is nothing, but DeepFake and used in SM by teenagers to gawk at videos at what it can do. Meta / WhatsApp AI is a glogified Google search . There are no AI code generators which can automatically plug in code into production code. Bade aaye - "AI writes its own code or refactors it automatically"; coders generate code from ChatGPT/AI/RationalRose/NextJS and use it without knowing how it affects security, There are no type restrictions in code generators that produce code like in typescript that these ChatGPT scripts generate. It requires experienced developers to know this stuff. AI can't do it automaticlly. zero Robotics and manufacturing base and software engineers losing jobs in India? Are you typing responses from DeepSeek? Not making sense. Simple question to you.. What did GST replace? What was before GST? Do you know what is state controlled "VAT"? Overheard convo 4 hrs ago at my workplace : Senior Dev: Where did you get this code ? this is like written by a 10 year old Junior Dev: from chatGPT saar Senior Dev: why...why dont you just use stackoverflow like normal people do Junior Dev: what is that ? Senior Dev: ...i am gonna pretend u didnt say that and let Mulo know that u will be surfing the net today learning about stackoverflow so he doesnt flag ur workstation as he is Sysadmin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Muloghonto said: Overheard convo 4 hrs ago at my workplace : Senior Dev: Where did you get this code ? this is like written by a 10 year old Junior Dev: from chatGPT saar Senior Dev: why...why dont you just use stackoverflow like normal people do Junior Dev: what is that ? Senior Dev: ...i am gonna pretend u didnt say that and let Mulo know that u will be surfing the net today learning about stackoverflow so he doesnt flag ur workstation as he is Sysadmin. Exaxtly,, we are so far away from codeGenerators automaticlly fixing code in production , that is running in these Apps. Are we in Terinator movie series mode already in 2025? No, we are so fcuking far away from generating production code automatically from AI!! Edited January 31 by coffee_rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R!TTER Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 8 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: Exaxtly,, we are so far away from codeGenerators automaticlly fixing code in production , that is running in these Apps. Are we in Terinator movie series mode already in 2025? No, we are so fcuking far away from generating production code automatically from AI!! It's not impossible but will take much time from now, the biggest issue is the low level jobs & yes anyone who thinks jobs will not be lost in the US or China due to "AI" is *ing stupid, even the highest paid ones The one thing corporates care above all is profitability & that's almost the exact opposite of job growth! 49 minutes ago, Muloghonto said: If you think AI is gonna make software engineers obsolete, all it tells me is that you dont know anything about software engineering. "AI" is a scam for now but its dangers are real, especially if you are at or near the bottom of the totem pole. Muloghonto and coffee_rules 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 34 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: Exaxtly,, we are so far away from codeGenerators automaticlly fixing code in production , that is running in these Apps. Are we in Terinator movie series mode already in 2025? No, we are so fcuking far away from generating production code automatically from AI!! terminator is pretty cool as an excuse to see humanoid robots fight and blow things up, but it makes zero sense. AI doesnt just 'awake' one fine day as sentient and goes from 'google plus ' to ' digital voldemort' instantly. Or ever. We would first require AI to think deductively as well as intuitively - this latter part is exceedingly difficult to mathematically model, since we basically lack the math for it ( how the hell do u mathematically represent 'intuiton' and fill in the blanks by intuitive reasoning ? The whole point of intuitive reasoning is that you had no current data to calculate but still made the leap and were right - such as knowing where someone's hand is in many cases even if you dont see it : eg couple walking in side by side,you dont see where the husband/wife's inner arm/hand is most of the time, but also most of the time u know exactly where it is ( by their side, duh)- this is example of intuitive thinking. Anyways, i digress). Once we have intuitive thinking, only THEN can we worry about sentience and dont get me wrong- a sentient AI can fool a human or another sentient being as to how smart they are in theory - but that would require presence OF sentience. Ie, once u have made sentient skynet, well sure, skynet could in theory keep it hidden that it is becoming einstien of hating humans but skynet going from google thingy to waking up as 'i exist'? Yeah...never ever gonna happen. I work with AI in some limited capacity and i know a bit of its architectural basis - from just being math dude - but let me just say that the both sides are wrong - AI isnt ' omg skynet time at worst or at best,pack ur bags people who work with pooters by 2030'. Nor is it 'just a search engine'. The truth is in between but it is far closer TO being 'just a search engine with more bells and whistles' because ultimately, it operates as one from base math modelling of it - your query is still filed, processed and answered in a search engine basis,just that there is much more 'resolution' to the keywords you are searching and dont have to do fancy tricks to isolate search results and it also is developing towards "some" base model predictive behaviour in interacting with Users, as in deep in query pathway, AI gets fairly easy to use, as the AI uses iterative logic to know that you are still talking of the same damn topic once u switch to terms like 'this' or 'that'. It will basically be, for the next immediate while, a cool personal assistant to have, sort of like the ultimate MS word paperclip at ur disposal. But what you make of AI will still largely depend on you and yest, base coding will become generic, as most base code will just be pushed by AI - until you have a new language, when humans again will write most of the base code, then AI will streamline it into the generic 'this is how you make mario jump once in this language' thingy for all to use. Those who are entering compsci today will not need to worry about being obsolete to AI in their careers, provided they are not D+ students. coffee_rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharathh Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 TBH whether AI can replace folks are not is the issue. The problem is that companies' managements are laying off people and forcing those remaining to do more stating that AI will fill in the gaps. So the job losses due to AI is real. This of course leads to loads of issues wrt companies' creating shitty code and stressed/overworked ppl. AI of course has impacted several creative agencies as well - esp in content writing, art and design,etc. Every job has been impacted by AI for sure in the last 2 yrs. That said, with the rise of paradigms like Agentic pipelines - we are getting closer to code being written to replace at least graduate/junior programmers at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Just now, BlueBlood said: You are not worthy of my response. The day you actually become a patriot and go back to India and do a government job at a lower salary in a crammed room without a/c, you are a useless troll who is all talk and no action. Probably the type who gets bullied daily by goras at work for being an average worker as seen by your intellectual dishonest posts and takes his frustration on message boards like incels do. The only one not worthy of a response, is one who thinks that patriotism requires residing in one's nation of patriotism. I live in Canada- nobody bullies anyone here in the workplace bub, except maybe we asians when we get flustred with the chalta-hai attitudes here. You may like to cope with this rant about being completely wrong about AI in the tech sector but that is for you to cope with. The real beneficiaries of the AI tech is the sector we wont know of till its too late or if this war drags on - military. *THAT* is where the main kahuna of the industry lies, fyi and even there people will laugh at your take on AI. This much i can tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 14 minutes ago, bharathh said: TBH whether AI can replace folks are not is the issue. The problem is that companies' managements are laying off people and forcing those remaining to do more stating that AI will fill in the gaps. So the job losses due to AI is real. This of course leads to loads of issues wrt companies' creating shitty code and stressed/overworked ppl. AI of course has impacted several creative agencies as well - esp in content writing, art and design,etc. Every job has been impacted by AI for sure in the last 2 yrs. That said, with the rise of paradigms like Agentic pipelines - we are getting closer to code being written to replace at least graduate/junior programmers at the moment. in low skills entry fields like media and media management and stuff, yes AI will make a difference and small things always do, but for tech sector itself, this is not how it works. There is one simple reality for coders - that even elite coders will tell you : the hardest thing to do isnt to write code, it is to work with someone else's code and join a project/end a project with someone leaving, etc. coz what is a black hole in time is figuring out other people's code. coz there is literally one trillion ways to skin the chicken as they say and your way may even be the common way but not this persons way, etc. So here is the simple thing for AI for the non coders : the day AI fixes code, that is the day coders will be worried. No, not 'generate code'. But 'i feed AI 5000 lines of code for code no worky and AI 'fixes' my code to output what i wanted'. When it does that, yes, coders will be worried. Till that day, coders wont be worried. And i say this as a peripheral coder - thankfully my line of work isnt going anywhere even with AI showing up, coz i am in web security and security will always remain at hands of humans at the keystone level. Aka me. so all ees well :) diga 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharathh Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 58 minutes ago, Muloghonto said: in low skills entry fields like media and media management and stuff, yes AI will make a difference and small things always do, but for tech sector itself, this is not how it works. There is one simple reality for coders - that even elite coders will tell you : the hardest thing to do isnt to write code, it is to work with someone else's code and join a project/end a project with someone leaving, etc. coz what is a black hole in time is figuring out other people's code. coz there is literally one trillion ways to skin the chicken as they say and your way may even be the common way but not this persons way, etc. So here is the simple thing for AI for the non coders : the day AI fixes code, that is the day coders will be worried. No, not 'generate code'. But 'i feed AI 5000 lines of code for code no worky and AI 'fixes' my code to output what i wanted'. When it does that, yes, coders will be worried. Till that day, coders wont be worried. And i say this as a peripheral coder - thankfully my line of work isnt going anywhere even with AI showing up, coz i am in web security and security will always remain at hands of humans at the keystone level. Aka me. so all ees well :) Well - you're preaching to the choir here. However, that doesn't change the way that companies choose to downsize/layoff people expecting AI to do the work of those they have laid off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharathh Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 8 minutes ago, BlueBlood said: Then incels like Muloghonto will finally have no choice but to go back to India as they will be laid off for sitting on forums and arguing all day instead of working and improving his skills. So what job do you do that apparently allows you to do the same but allows you to improve your skills at the same time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharathh Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 8 minutes ago, BlueBlood said: I only come once a month or so here. Feed the trolls who live in an echo chamber and move on. I don't do free PR to Modi or BJP just because of fake patriotism. I care deeply about India enough to hopefully get brainwashed bots with cultist tendencies to see the light that they are ultimately being played for the benefit of Ambani and Adani rather than even Modi. We see that in cricket with Rohit Sharma and Kohli having free PR even with lack of performance. At least they can be criticized. You criticize Modi or brainless Finance Minister Nirmala you get jailed or censored. So I am doing my duty with a contrarian opinion to the echo chamber this board has become. It's never appreciated but I don't really care, one less brainwashed bot is better for the country. Deep down all you NRI's know I am right but your animalistic level tendencies make you too emotional to think logically that the reason why you left India and will never go back despite people like Trump making your life harder in the US every day. You know what is in store back home but yet fake patriotism stops you from actually admiting the reality of your predicament. Since according to you - you are not a patriot - why bother about this pathetic place? I am not an NRI btw. I live in Bangalore. Also, pls get that derangement syndrome looked at ASAP. Looks like it is getting worse post by post. Also, don't waste time posting and work on your skills. I'll take your comments more seriously once you've created a new AI model that can compete with these. Muloghonto 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 5 hours ago, BlueBlood said: I only come once a month or so here. Feed the trolls who live in an echo chamber and move on. I don't do free PR to Modi or BJP just because of fake patriotism. I care deeply about India enough to hopefully get brainwashed bots with cultist tendencies to see the light that they are ultimately being played for the benefit of Ambani and Adani rather than even Modi. We see that in cricket with Rohit Sharma and Kohli having free PR even with lack of performance. At least they can be criticized. You criticize Modi or brainless Finance Minister Nirmala you get jailed or censored. So I am doing my duty with a contrarian opinion to the echo chamber this board has become. It's never appreciated but I don't really care, one less brainwashed bot is better for the country. Deep down all you NRI's know I am right but your animalistic level tendencies make you too emotional to think logically that the reason why you left India and will never go back despite people like Trump making your life harder in the US every day. You know what is in store back home but yet fake patriotism stops you from actually admiting the reality of your predicament. Have you ever wondered why Modi Supporter oppose Modi policies on certain matters but opposition supportersare incapable of opposing their leaders policies and oppose Modi irrespective of logic? Its because Modi and BJP permanently live in their head without paying monthly rent and they are incapable of evicting them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 9 hours ago, BlueBlood said: Trump already threatening BRICS nations 100% tariffs if they side step the US. Lets see how quickly modi changes tune and moves away from Russia towards US once he gets the memo from Adani and Ambani. So much for "we are self reliant" and a leader in BRICS. And to your point, if you are an average coder your days are numbered as OpenAI o3 model with unlimited compute ranked 150th best coder in the world. Once that's released and widely used in the next 2-3 years... Infosys, Wipro, TCS, Accenture and other body shops that sell hours of labor with zero moat or value add will bring the entire Indian stock market down. Then incels like Muloghonto will finally have no choice but to go back to India as they will be laid off for sitting on forums and arguing all day instead of working and improving his skills. Hopefully at that point he will realize how important R&D is for a company's growth not just rendering cheap services that AI can replicate 80% of the time. I recently went to a large airline company in India for consulting work and was astonished to see 80 people working on converting PDF invoices to word and creating basic brochures using Canva and photoshop. These types of jobs that India and to a smaller extent Philippines does are all going to disappear and then you lot will have nothing but religion to hold on to similar to Afghanistan and right now Bangladesh/Pakistan when people like me have been shouting from rooftops to not put all the nations wealth in the hands of Ambani and Adani who are glorified rent seekers and not innovators who actually bring wealth back to the country in the form of exports. Yes the most skilled and highest paid it workers in the world, who are all H1b visa holders, will all lose their jobs due to AI. It's true, look it up: US IT workers are the highest paid in the world and in the US, H1b visa holders earn 2-5% more than their American citizen counterparts. Coz It makes sense that when an industry invents a new paradigm, the best and the brightest in the industry suffer and lose their jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 (edited) 1 hour ago, BlueBlood said: I am not a patriot because I am against abject incompetence and chest thumping of BJP? This is the idiocy I am talking about. Talk anything against ruling class you are deemed anti-national. We saw with farmer protesters too where they deemed them terrorists and khalistani. Ultimately Modi caved and gave in after all the stupid fuss and media hype. A true patriot is one who can take the good and bad and not blindly support everything like a brainwashed cult would. You are not a patriot for calling the govt that did more for Indian basic infrastructure in last 10 years than the prior 50 as incompetent. That is the bottomline. Modi is literally the FDR of India. Farmer protests were clear cut khalistanis, Mr traitor. Edited January 31 by Muloghonto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharathh Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 3 hours ago, BlueBlood said: I am not a patriot because I am against abject incompetence and chest thumping of BJP? This is the idiocy I am talking about. Talk anything against ruling class you are deemed anti-national. We saw with farmer protesters too where they deemed them terrorists and khalistani. Ultimately Modi caved and gave in after all the stupid fuss and media hype. A true patriot is one who can take the good and bad and not blindly support everything like a brainwashed cult would. You are the one that said that someone is not a patriot because they don't live in India. Applying your standard to you. You are the one bringing in politics to everything. I'm not sure what part of the farmers protests was constructive? They pretty much destroyed any positive changes that could be made in the agriculture industry and have pretty much turned most of the common man apathetic to the condition of actual farmers. The fact that the govt caved in to these terrorists was tragic and one of the most stupid things that the govt could have done. You show some video that shows the worst of India and expect people to take that as constructive criticism? Our cleanliness and hygeine standards have a long way to go - but I'm not sure what you get out of watching that video you linked here. There is constructive criticism and out and out racism. There are similar places in every city in the world. People don't go searching for those places to make videos of those places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharathh Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 3 hours ago, BlueBlood said: I am not a patriot because I am against abject incompetence and chest thumping of BJP? This is the idiocy I am talking about. Talk anything against ruling class you are deemed anti-national. We saw with farmer protesters too where they deemed them terrorists and khalistani. Ultimately Modi caved and gave in after all the stupid fuss and media hype. A true patriot is one who can take the good and bad and not blindly support everything like a brainwashed cult would. Also - either you come home and contribute directly to the country or stay in your paradise—wherever you consider home to be. Keep your condescending bull to yourself. We Indians don't want to listen to your crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 3 hours ago, BlueBlood said: I am not a patriot because I am against abject incompetence and chest thumping of BJP? This is the idiocy I am talking about. Talk anything against ruling class you are deemed anti-national. We saw with farmer protesters too where they deemed them terrorists and khalistani. Ultimately Modi caved and gave in after all the stupid fuss and media hype. A true patriot is one who can take the good and bad and not blindly support everything like a brainwashed cult would. Tu hi to ek buddhimaan hain yahan, Baaki sab bekaar. All your posts even in Cricket Talk is about BJP this, BJP that. Thoda has liya karo. Ghumo.. fcuking get laid,. mishra 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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