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Format specific players is the way to go


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2 hours ago, Chamsi said:

The second point is what I mentioned Rinku Singh, Kamindu Mendis, Travis Head, and the more famous, Virat Kohli of 2016 for. In red-hot form, they aced all formats. From such a large pool of players, India can afford to find the 11 in-form or potentially formidable players who can ply for the BCCI year-round. In short, for each format anyone can pick 11 best Ranji performers of the year and make a Ranji 11, but we have Irani Trophy for that. Ankit Bawne, Paras Dogra, Kedar Jadhav, if it was format-specific 20 others would be in contention for a spot in Test team as well. That's why Shubman Gill plays above them.

 

Again, you have mentioned proven all format generational talent like Kohli and Head  to carry foward your point.

 

Funny though about Kamindu ( only in his first year in a limited talent team -already has 3 succssive test failure and unproven in white ball cricket) and Rinku ( could be an all format player but competition is immense for him)

 

For every all format succes stories like Virat and Rohit, there are atleast 10 such players who couldn't ace all formats. You are being too confused in finding "11 inform players" in India that can play allround the year irrespective of their skills or suitability a format demand. This is actually absurd. So of Sky is in form in T20, he should be slotted in ODIs and Test. Guess what - we did that and look what happened. 

 

Red hot form can only work if they are skilled and suited for that format. A red hot axar in T20 may not be a great choice in ODI because his defensive bowling in T20 is an asset while the same bowling is toothless in ODI. See what I did there.

 

We did the mistake with KL, Rahane and hope we don't do the same mistake with Gill and Pant by imposing them in T20 team.

 

Also funny you mention Ranji trophy. Nobody is blindly selecting from Ranji anyways. But the same all format stars couldn't buy runs against Ranji bowlers.

 

India has a large pool and thats why exactly should invest in multiple players suited as per format with form being non negitoable all the time.

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9 hours ago, deepdynamo said:

 

Again, you have mentioned proven all format generational talent like Kohli and Head  to carry foward your point.

 

Funny though about Kamindu ( only in his first year in a limited talent team -already has 3 succssive test failure and unproven in white ball cricket) and Rinku ( could be an all format player but competition is immense for him)

 

For every all format succes stories like Virat and Rohit, there are atleast 10 such players who couldn't ace all formats. You are being too confused in finding "11 inform players" in India that can play allround the year irrespective of their skills or suitability a format demand. This is actually absurd. So of Sky is in form in T20, he should be slotted in ODIs and Test. Guess what - we did that and look what happened. 

 

Red hot form can only work if they are skilled and suited for that format. A red hot axar in T20 may not be a great choice in ODI because his defensive bowling in T20 is an asset while the same bowling is toothless in ODI. See what I did there.

 

We did the mistake with KL, Rahane and hope we don't do the same mistake with Gill and Pant by imposing them in T20 team.

 

Also funny you mention Ranji trophy. Nobody is blindly selecting from Ranji anyways. But the same all format stars couldn't buy runs against Ranji bowlers.

 

India has a large pool and thats why exactly should invest in multiple players suited as per format with form being non negitoable all the time.

 

If given proper envmt. and what suites the batter in the batting line-up one can fit-in any batter (openers and 1 down)to all 3 formats. Its wether team is set-up to win or to have those players. Eng. has changed the game entirely teams are talking about impact, runs in the cause of victory.

 

A good example of player being fitted in all format are babar and rizwan both open have sr of ~125 and avg 40+, they lose more matches than they win against good or even depleted sides but still they got multiple tons are amongst hightest run getters in t20is. Will any other team take this kind of batter probably not. Rohit and kolhi can be seen as same kind of players.... its just that babar and rizwan are more obvious examples. And both kolhi and rohit are more capable hitters against top quality bowling in their prime.

 

Can root, smith or any top test batter not be able to have ~40 avg in t20is if their team's set-up would let them play the way thy wanted with sr under 130.

 

Another good example would be rahane/dravid playing ipl for rr where they were given liberty to play maximum overs , think rakhane has 2 tons playing fr rr, even kl who scores 600+ runs per season and costs games after games to his team

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by tapandrun
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8 hours ago, tapandrun said:

 

If given proper envmt. and what suites the batter in the batting line-up one can fit-in any batter (openers and 1 down)to all 3 formats. Its wether team is set-up to win or to have those players. Eng. has changed the game entirely teams are talking about impact, runs in the cause of victory.

 

A good example of player being fitted in all format are babar and rizwan both open have sr of ~125 and avg 40+, they lose more matches than they win against good or even depleted sides but still they got multiple tons are amongst hightest run getters in t20is. Will any other team take this kind of batter probably not. Rohit and kolhi can be seen as same kind of players.... its just that babar and rizwan are more obvious examples. And both kolhi and rohit are more capable hitters against top quality bowling in their prime.

 

Can root, smith or any top test batter not be able to have ~40 avg in t20is if their team's set-up would let them play the way thy wanted with sr under 130.

 

Another good example would be rahane/dravid playing ipl for rr where they were given liberty to play maximum overs , think rakhane has 2 tons playing fr rr, even kl who scores 600+ runs per season and costs games after games to his team

 

 

 

 

 

The T20 WC team is great example of two all-format batsman opening the batting and making the most out the powerplay. If they keep the winning XI, then Shubman and Jaiswal logically replace the retired greats. The winning team has so many all-format players, there have no incentive to change that template.

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1 hour ago, Chamsi said:

The T20 WC team is great example of two all-format batsman opening the batting and making the most out the powerplay. If they keep the winning XI, then Shubman and Jaiswal logically replace the retired greats. The winning team has so many all-format players, there have no incentive to change that template.

Yes team would need luck to win a tournament like wc but Ind was v.luck to win the wc, they would have been out of wc in the 1st round had some other team was chasing 120 on the same pitch, and final was almost lost with kalsen and  miller at the crease and not much to get. Its was only these 2 teams pak and sa better than Ind at crumbling under pressure.

kolhi scored around 150 runs in whole t20wc with 79 off 59 in finals which is most likely a match losing knock in t20i . 1,4,0,24,37,0,9, were his other knocks it was like Ind was already 1 down before even starting to bat.

They had to bring dube (who ppl here do not think is a high quality batter, there is a thread about it) in 11 just to counter the inability of rohit and kolhi to get quick runs against spin.

Had ind lost the wc ppl would have been cursing kolhi's knock or some might have already started when sa was cruising.

 

most of the ppl here would have not betted on Ind team in that wc though they wound have wanted them to win.

 

Edited by tapandrun
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1 hour ago, tapandrun said:

 

 

Yes team would need luck to win a tournament like wc but Ind was v.luck to win the wc, they would have been out of wc in the 1st round had some other team was chasing 120 on the same pitch, and final was almost lost with kalsen and  miller at the crease and not much to get. Its was only these 2 teams pak and sa better than Ind at crumbling under pressure.

kolhi scored around 150 runs in whole t20wc with 79 off 59 in finals which is most likely a match losing knock in t20i . 1,4,0,24,37,0,9, were his other knocks it was like Ind was already 1 down before even starting to bat.

They had to bring dube (who ppl here do not think is a high quality batter, there is a thread about it) in 11 just to counter the inability of rohit and kolhi to get quick runs against spin.

Had ind lost the wc ppl would have been cursing kolhi's knock or some might have already started when sa was cruising.

 

most of the ppl here would have not betted on Ind team in that wc though they wound have wanted them to win.

Sure, everything about Kohli is right. Shubman and Jaiswal should’ve nailed there spots earlier, but so has been the preferential treatment.

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26 minutes ago, Chamsi said:

Sure, everything about Kohli is right. Shubman and Jaiswal should’ve nailed there spots earlier, but so has been the preferential treatment.

Yes Jaiswal can play all 3 formats (for now), but gill lacks the power game for t20is and his test average is plummeting as well. One of the reason GT not doing well last ipl season was gill and sai playing in top 3 and both lack t20 power game. Gill had only 1 good ipl in terms of score and sr rest he has struggled to score the runs at quick rate.

 

In one of his yt video ashwin has also mentioned about sai's inability to play at high tempo even at ipl level. think he was discussing some auction scenario with some1.

that vedio was v.informative of how this auctions works and how teams picks their players.

 

More and more batter are coming in t20s who are capable of getting a ton in under 50 balls, mentioned about mitch owens (bbl-aus) in one of the thread , then there is allen from nz, mcgurk aus. these batter do not need 50 balls to score a ton. 

 

55 or more ball ton is already causing teams the game and 50-55 ball ton is getting to par or just par scores. 

Can not recall properly but gaikward scored 125 (ind 2nd highest indvl score back then) vs aus (2nd string) in t20i and Ind still lost that game he got to 123 only because of bad 20th over by aus but it was a slow hundred he was 95-96 by 50-51 balls, yes tilak's innings was the reason for the loss but still it was slow 100.

  

 

 

 

Edited by tapandrun
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14 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

Yes Jaiswal can play all 3 formats, but gill lacks the power game for t20is. One of the reason GT not doing well last ipl season was gill and sai playing in top 3 and both lack t20 power game. Gill had only 1 good ipl in terms of score and sr rest he has struggled to score the runs at quick rate.

 

In one of his yt video ashwin has also mentioned about sai's inability to play at high tempo even at ipl level. think he was discussing some auction scenario with some1.

that vedio was v.informative of how this auctions works and how teams picks their players.

 

 

 

They will need to develop their game further, India has the best resources in IPL for that. These are 2 of the 4 genuine top-order batsman in India. 

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12 minutes ago, Chamsi said:

They will need to develop their game further, India has the best resources in IPL for that. These are 2 of the 4 genuine top-order batsman in India. 

Can only discuss on what they got rt. now what they can develop and improve is a different topic. right now gill is hardly a 1 format player.

still need to perform big against a decent bowling side or in high stake game in odi format.

 

ind players are lacking behind in developing and improving even when the incentive are huge. Gill was talked as next big thing 8-10 months ago now no1 talks of him.

 

on not improving take s.iyer he has not improved his game against short ball, if he fixes that it is highly likely he will become the captain after rohit. but has he improved anything.

 

rachin (nz) travelled to Ind to work on his game against spin, are ind players doing anything like it??

 

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