Karnataka hampi shameful, what is wrong with India

[Vicks57]

6 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Trust a libbu liar anti-indian to equate social media for finding news with caring about social media arguments between angry teenagers in their parents basement.

Everyone cares about the former, nobody cares about the latter. Try new tactic about why your elders should care about your whinings online, hindu hating anti-india guy.

PS: So much for southies and image of India,eh ??? Two raper+killers are Kannadiga,one from Tamil Nadu. Why is south ruining the name of India ???

 

 

No one is from Tamil Nadu. They are telugu, kannadiga. One guy works in Chennai. His name is "Saranbasava"

 

Three accused names are "Sai Mallesh", "Sai Chetan", "Saranbasava". That's beside the point.

 

Anyway, this incident will be propped up by your white supremacist masters. Go back to bootlicking.

 

 

[Vilander]

5 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

Two raper+killers are Kannadiga,one from Tamil Nadu.

Arrested in Tamil Nadu on thr run, he is a local from hampi. The issue is ocal law and order. Don't try to make this a smear campaign. Lol you seem to have completely lost it.

[Muloghonto]

5 hours ago, Vicks57 said:

 

No one is from Tamil Nadu. They are telugu, kannadiga. One guy works in Chennai. His name is "Saranbasava"

 

Three accused names are "Sai Mallesh", "Sai Chetan", "Saranbasava". That's beside the point.

 

Anyway, this incident will be propped up by your white supremacist masters. Go back to bootlicking.

 

 

They are propped up by your liberal raper masters....remember the rape rate of libbus. 

 

Chee chee....southies ruining name of India. 

[Vilander]

8 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

@singhvivek141 @coffee_rules another Dehat masterpiece.

Horrifying thread 

 

 

It's like midieval times , loot gold and abuse women. Absolute objectification of women.

[Vilander]

1 minute ago, Muloghonto said:

Chee chee....southies

Don't try to derail this into north vs south.

[Muloghonto]

Just now, Vilander said:

Don't try to derail this into north vs south.

Why not ?? Where are you when dravidian supremacist derails illegal immigration into north vs south ??

What good for the goose, is good for the gander. 

 

Chee chee on the south. 

[Lone Wolf]

53 minutes ago, Vilander said:

 

It's like midieval times , loot gold and abuse women. Absolute objectification of women.

Only solution was forced Sterilization of Dehati and Tribal areas.  Dehat would have vanished and India would not have been handicapped by their burden.  No more ladli behen, no more freebies.  A booming economy.

[Muloghonto]

6 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Only solution was forced Sterilization of Dehati and Tribal areas.  Dehat would have vanished and India would not have been handicapped by their burden.  No more ladli behen, no more freebies.  A booming economy.

Dehat has far less rape problem than Indian cities. 

 

Rape promotion is a liberal phenomena. They will make right noises about rape in media but systematically make it harder for women to get justice and perps will systematically get less and less sentencing. 

This is the liberal rape promotion model that's been tried and tested in the west : since 1980s, western rape rate has mushroomed to 4x the rate and justice rate ( as in % convictions per case in court) dropped to below 5%.... India bats at 27% btw. 

 

And the same trend we see in India with liberal rape promotion ideology. 

Edited March 11 by Muloghonto

[Mariyam]

18 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

Stop giving air to these kind of news. These are not news items, these are propaganda items to defame India. 

Look at western countries : 50 times higher per capita rape rate. 

Yet you don't see their media filling up their pages about western rape hell stories.

 

Or maybe we are much safer place for women than rapey libbu west precisely because we make huge deal outta these stories. 

 

So pick your poison lol 

There are many of us who live in India and don't give two hoots about what western media's portrayal or if or not they have an agenda.

 

India has a problem with rape. Period.

India has a problem with rape and murder. Period.

 

Frame of reference is India from the 70s and 80s, although not filing an FIRs was a bigger issue then.

 

There is a societal issue and it needs be addressed. 

There is a serious policing and evidence gathering issue and that needs to be adressed. States with high conviction rates have lowest rape and murder rates. There is a co-relation. Kerala & Mizoram for example. 

There is serious issue with our justice dispensing system and that needs to be adressed.

 

And the three are inter related.

 

Instead of making 300 more nukes which don't even make us more secure than what we currently are, if we could improve the quality of policing and justice dispensation we would truly be on the road to be a super power.

[Muloghonto]

34 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

There are many of us who live in India and don't give two hoots about what western media's portrayal or if or not they have an agenda.

 

India has a problem with rape. Period.

India has a problem with rape and murder. Period.

 

Frame of reference is India from the 70s and 80s, although not filing an FIRs was a bigger issue then.

 

There is a societal issue and it needs be addressed. 

There is a serious policing and evidence gathering issue and that needs to be adressed. States with high conviction rates have lowest rape and murder rates. There is a co-relation. Kerala & Mizoram for example. 

There is serious issue with our justice dispensing system and that needs to be adressed.

 

And the three are inter related.

 

Instead of making 300 more nukes which don't even make us more secure than what we currently are, if we could improve the quality of policing and justice dispensation we would truly be on the road to be a super power.

How does India have a problem with rape and murder when it's 50% below global mean averages ??

 

Or are going with ' looks good as slogan but doesn't work in real life' view of ' 1 murder Is 1 too many' ?? 

 

How is it police gathering and justice issue, when India bats at 50% above global median for conviction rate for rape ?? 

 

[Vilander]

5 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

Why not ?? Where are you when dravidian supremacist derails illegal immigration into north vs south ??

What good for the goose, is good for the gander. 

 

Chee chee on the south. 

What about ism. Fallacy. Stick to the topic pls

[Muloghonto]

8 minutes ago, Vilander said:

What about ism. Fallacy. Stick to the topic pls

Whataboutism  isn't a fallacy. That's illogical western nonsense. Whataboutism is the objective benchmark for logical consistency. 

Hence the saying what's good for the goose is good for the gander. A literal saying about whataboutism I English language. 

[Mariyam]

4 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

How does India have a problem with rape and murder when it's 50% below global mean averages ??

 

Or are going with ' looks good as slogan but doesn't work in real life' view of ' 1 murder Is 1 too many' ?? 

 

How is it police gathering and justice issue, when India bats at 50% above global median for conviction rate for rape ?? 

 

You've misunderstood my post. And with all due respect to you ( and I do have a fair bit of respect), your numbers are either incorrect and/or you have simply misunderstood the statistics.

 

To begin with, when I say rape and murder, I mean rape followed by murder of the victim. India (according to the national bureau of crime records) has a very low conviction rate. You are looking at a conviction rate of 12% as against ~26% for rape. Among all serious crimes, this is the least. Murder (without rape)  has a ~30% conviction rate.

 

You keep bringing conviction rates vis a vis other countries. That is not my benchmark. My benchmark is against India of the yore. 

For rape, The conviction rates were 44.3 percent in 1973, 37.7 percent in 1983, 26.9 percent in 2009, 26.6 percent in 2010 and 26.4 percent in 2011.

See a trend? We aren't solving as many cases as we did earlier and that needs some course correction.

 

Also, successive Indian governments have defined conviction rates in a very strange manner. It is by design and not by default. Its in on a rolling window average.

Let me give you an example.

Say there were 100 robberies reported in 1947 and 10 were convicted we have a 10% conviction rate.

In 1948 you had another 100 robberies reported and 8 were convicted, you have a 9% conviction rate ( 18 convictions out of 200) for 1948. 

in 1949 also 100 robberies were reported and there were 3 convictions, the conviction rate is 7% ( 21 convictions out of 300) and so on.

 

And for the most of the period since our independence, marital rape wasn't counted as rape. 

 

By contrast, In the UK, convictions percentages are counted on a 10 year window. Meaning if a conviction is handed 11 years after the crime, it is counted as miscarriage of justice.

 

So what we are seeing is that the current number for rape convictions in India is around 26% which means that of all FIRs on rape since 1947/1948, 26% of the cases have resulted in a conviction. It is a terrible statistic. No matter whichever way you look at it. Many of the victims gets justice after years. The average 'wait' time for 'justice' for rape cases is around 8-9 years.

 

There is another statistic that the NBCR tracks but never reports. Pendency percentage. Rape cases have a pendency percentage of 90-96% every year for the last 15 years. That means that every year ( or perhaps the window is 2 years, need to re check) between 90-96% of the FIRs on rape haven't resulted in any conviction.

 

We have a problem. It needs to be acknowledged and sorted at a societal level. What happens in the US or Timbuktu is irrelevant. Their methods of statistics are different, and perhaps not manipulative as ours. India of today is not as safe as the India of 40 years ago, if official figures are to be believed. That is what matters.

 

My mother has been a criminal lawyer (of some repute) for more than 4 decades. She would have seen a handful of rape cases solved in a timely manner during her tenure.

My lawyering days are behind me, but long story short, I used to volunteer with Flavia Agnes. Did litigation for cases of domestic abuse. There were many colleagues who litigated for more serious stuff: rape cases and again there were hardly any convictions.

 

About the need for better policing, don't even get me started on that.

Edited March 11 by Mariyam

[Muloghonto]

23 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

You've misunderstood my post. And with all due respect to you ( and I do have a fair bit of respect), your numbers are either incorrect and/or you have simply misunderstood the statistics.

 

To begin with, when I say rape and murder, I mean rape followed by murder of the victim. India (according to the national bureau of crime records) has a very low conviction rate. You are looking at a conviction rate of 12% as against ~26% for rape. Among all serious crimes, this is the least. Murder (without rape)  has a ~30% conviction rate.

 

You keep bringing conviction rates vis a vis other countries. That is not my benchmark. My benchmark is against India of the yore. 

For rape, The conviction rates were 44.3 percent in 1973, 37.7 percent in 1983, 26.9 percent in 2009, 26.6 percent in 2010 and 26.4 percent in 2011.

See a trend? We aren't solving as many cases as we did earlier and that needs some course correction.

 

Also, successive Indian governments have defined conviction rates in a very strange manner. It is by design and not by default. Its in on a rolling window average.

Let me give you an example.

Say there were 100 robberies reported in 1947 and 10 were convicted we have a 10% conviction rate.

In 1948 you had another 100 robberies reported and 8 were convicted, you have a 9% conviction rate ( 18 convictions out of 200) for 1948. 

in 1949 also 100 robberies were reported and there were 3 convictions, the conviction rate is 7% ( 21 convictions out of 300) and so on.

 

And for the most of the period since our independence, marital rape wasn't counted as rape. 

 

By contrast, In the UK, convictions percentages are counted on a 10 year window. Meaning if a conviction is handed 11 years after the crime, it is counted as miscarriage of justice.

 

So what we are seeing is that the current number for rape convictions in India is around 26% which means that of all FIRs on rape since 1947/1948, 26% of the cases have resulted in a conviction. It is a terrible statistic. No matter whichever way you look at it. Many of the victims gets justice after years. The average 'wait' time for 'justice' for rape cases is around 8-9 years.

 

There is another statistic that the NBCR tracks but never reports. Pendency percentage. Rape cases have a pendency percentage of 90-96% every year for the last 15 years. That means that every year ( or perhaps the window is 2 years, need to re check) between 90-96% of the FIRs on rape haven't resulted in any conviction.

 

We have a problem. It needs to be acknowledged and sorted at a societal level. What happens in the US or Timbuktu is irrelevant. Their methods of statistics are different, and perhaps not manipulative as ours. India of today is not as safe as the India of 40 years ago, if official figures are to be believed. That is what matters.

 

My mother has been a criminal lawyer (of some repute) for more than 4 decades. She would have seen a handful of rape cases solved in a timely manner during her tenure.

My lawyering days are behind me, but long story short, I used to volunteer with Flavia Agnes. Did litigation for cases of domestic abuse. There were many colleagues who litigated for more serious stuff: rape cases and again there were hardly any convictions.

 

About the need for better policing, don't even get me started on that.

I did misread you. When you said murder and rape, I saw them as two separate statistics, not murder cum rape. 

 

To me, pendency problem is resource problem, not justice problem: It means there aren't sufficient courts and judges, not that the system doesn't work, because as I said, india returns conviction rate of 27% for rape cases that go to court, while global average is less than 10% .

 

I am failing to see how 'India has a rape problem' when India is literally waaaay above median rape rate per capita and conviction rate... . Math no worky  for that conclusion. 

[EnterTheVoid]

9 hours ago, Mariyam said:

There are many of us who live in India and don't give two hoots about what western media's portrayal or if or not they have an agenda.

 

India has a problem with rape. Period.

India has a problem with rape and murder. Period.

 

Frame of reference is India from the 70s and 80s, although not filing an FIRs was a bigger issue then.

 

There is a societal issue and it needs be addressed. 

There is a serious policing and evidence gathering issue and that needs to be adressed. States with high conviction rates have lowest rape and murder rates. There is a co-relation. Kerala & Mizoram for example. 

There is serious issue with our justice dispensing system and that needs to be adressed.

 

And the three are inter related.

 

Instead of making 300 more nukes which don't even make us more secure than what we currently are, if we could improve the quality of policing and justice dispensation we would truly be on the road to be a super power.

 

Well said.

 

Great job exposing the clowns using gymnastics on stats to obfuscate the problem.

[Vilander]

8 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

Whataboutism  isn't a fallacy. That's illogical western nonsense. Whataboutism is the objective benchmark for logical consistency. 

Hence the saying what's good for the goose is good for the gander. A literal saying about whataboutism I English language. 

I have no interest in argument. Read more and improve your understanding, cheers.

[EnterTheVoid]

Using stats to show that 'India does not have a rape problem' is a red herring, if there was ever one.

You could also use stats to show that Mogadishu, Somalia is safer than Chicago. Let's see if anyone buys it.

[coffee_rules]

7 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

I did misread you. When you said murder and rape, I saw them as two separate statistics, not murder cum rape. 

 

To me, pendency problem is resource problem, not justice problem: It means there aren't sufficient courts and judges, not that the system doesn't work, because as I said, india returns conviction rate of 27% for rape cases that go to court, while global average is less than 10% .

 

I am failing to see how 'India has a rape problem' when India is literally waaaay above median rape rate per capita and conviction rate... . Math no worky  for that conclusion. 

India has a women safety problem. No matter what stats say, I will not let my female family member take uber from the airport at 2am alone. 

[bharathh]

5 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

India has a women safety problem. No matter what stats say, I will not let my female family member take uber from the airport at 2am alone. 

 

That's a perception problem. My wife travels quite a bit and comes back home from the airport/goes to the airport by cab at all times of the day/night. Would I want her to go to Coxtown/Benson town/Shivaji by herself - no.

 

That said, the same can be said of any American city downtown. Noone would go by themselves into dt (even Boston Southside) without trepidation. Every city in India is less dangerous than San Fran, Detroit, Miami, Atlanta, Houston etc. 

[coffee_rules]

11 minutes ago, bharathh said:

 

That's a perception problem. My wife travels quite a bit and comes back home from the airport/goes to the airport by cab at all times of the day/night. Would I want her to go to Coxtown/Benson town/Shivaji by herself - no.

 

That said, the same can be said of any American city downtown. Noone would go by themselves into dt (even Boston Southside) without trepidation. Every city in India is less dangerous than San Fran, Detroit, Miami, Atlanta, Houston etc. 

maybe , I am ok during daytime, but don’t have the guts say at 2 am. You can’t deny that there is a problem in India with women living alone. If we visit regularly, then maybe we get used it. But having read about incidents in Hyd, Delhi, Bangalore, it’ll be a big step. 
 

We can’t do comparison across countries, bad things happen everywhere, it’s better to be cautious.