Confirmed News : Both Rohit and Virat are going to play the 2027 World Cup

[putrevus]

4 minutes ago, Number said:

It may also be the case that some opposition batsmen like Kane are much more technically solid than our batsmen like Kohli and Rohit to counter movement.

No , they are getting out cheaply to other team's bowlers.

 

Head is bradman against Indian bowlers in big matches but he gets out cheaply against other teams.

 

Kane , I doubt he has even 50 against other big teams in other big odi matches.He sure has scored runs against Indian bowlers in big odi matches.

 

He could score runs against Indian bowlers in 2021 test finals too where guess who could not pick any wickets in most helpful conditions.

[Lord]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

So top order cannot get out to such deliveries??

 

That problem of not able to get top order batsmen out cheaply in pressure matches is reserved for Indian bowlers with our ace leading the pack that too in helpful conditions.

 

They can't get top order out because others top order bat better. Its not as if bowlers spray the ball around

[putrevus]

4 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

They can't get top order out because others top order bat better. Its not as if bowlers spray the ball around

No , Indian bowlers have problem in getting other top order batsmen out.

 

Bowlers getting top order batsman out cheaply happens a lot. It is our genius bowlers who cannot do anything even in helpful conditions or unhelpful conditions.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2025 by putrevus

[Suhaan]

40 minutes ago, putrevus said:

No , Indian bowlers have problem in getting other top order batsmen out.

 

Bowlers getting top order batsman out cheaply happens a lot. It is our genius bowlers who cannot do anything even in helpful conditions or unhelpful conditions.

 

 

 

As always you are right

 

 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2025 by Suhaan

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, Lord said:

 

They can't get top order out because others top order bat better. Its not as if bowlers spray the ball around

Very first ball kohli dropped a catch in the WC final

[mikeypbadana86]

5 hours ago, R!TTER said:

Sehwag played across the line, same goes for Yuvraj, SRT got out fishing - any other day and all of them could've avoided those dismissals. None of those were unplayable balls as you're making them out to be!

 

Says the person making excuses for BRat.You'll probably justify his last 8(9?) carbon copy dismissals in Oz as unplayable deliveries as well  

none of them are across the line hack shots. I am sure, legendary saeeed anwar knows better than all of us ,quote "Its impossible to pick the shine/swing/movement from the hand, as a batter you are always second guessing". Unquote. Even ajay jadeja said the same recently. Batsment when in form tend to second guess accurately but the bowler can always outhink. Its foolish to assume  a bowler can never get a bastment out, how ever good/great he may be. 

 

You should define whats choking, choking is India going from 99/1 to 120/8 in 1996 semis, choking is WI failing to chase 212 from 165/2 in world cup semis in 1996. Similarly choking is 2011 ODI semis where pak could not chase 260. 

 

If virat has got out like pant/dhoni/pandya after getting out, that would qualify as choking. I agree, he failed in 2019 semis but dont put this under choking category.

 

ou'll probably justify his last 8(9?) carbon copy dismissals in Oz as unplayable deliveries as well

out of form and easy dismissials should i say!

[mikeypbadana86]

6 hours ago, Lord said:

Top order is supposed to play out such deliveries in swing conditions. There was no RR pressure. 

1983 Great west indies side could not chase 183, 1999 great pak side could only score 132. Both cases there was no RR preassure. can you justify why  viv richards choked or seed anwar choked? Swing and seam is a bowlers paradise. 

[Lord]

1 minute ago, mikeypbadana86 said:

1983 Great west indies side could not chase 183, 1999 great pak side could only score 132. Both cases there was no RR preassure. can you justify why  viv richards choked or seed anwar choked? Swing and seam is a bowlers paradise. 

 

They failed just like Kohli. No one justifies their failures by excuses.

[mikeypbadana86]

5 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

They failed just like Kohli. No one justifies their failures by excuses.

Failure is the right word. Not shaming with tags like choking when its not the case. 

 

[putrevus]

Richard didn’t say it was his failure, he just got out and gave Kapil dev credit, what it means is bowlers are allowed to defend subpar total too.

 

 

[BacktoCricaddict]

11 hours ago, Lord said:

Its not as if bowlers spray the ball around

And if our bowlers do spray, their batters don't go on fishing expeditions ;-)

[putrevus]

15 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

And if our bowlers do spray, their batters don't go on fishing expeditions ;-)

They don't have to go on fishing expeditions as our bowlers keep serving them half volleys on platter in important matches.

[rollingstoned]

16 hours ago, putrevus said:

Richard didn’t say it was his failure, he just got out and gave Kapil dev credit, what it means is bowlers are allowed to defend subpar total too.

 

 

If bowlers are 'allowed' to defend sub par totals batsmen are also certainly 'allowed' to chase par scores in mildly challenging conditions. No one told them stopped them from doing so using your logic. Infact if they're the superstars in the team they should do so more often even if others fail. 

[putrevus]

41 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

If bowlers are 'allowed' to defend sub par totals batsmen are also certainly 'allowed' to chase par scores in mildly challenging conditions. No one told them stopped them from doing so using your logic. Infact if they're the superstars in the team they should do so more often even if others fail. 

let us see Indian knock out failures from 2013 in all formats.I agree the batsmen should be chasing par scores.They did do that that is why India went to three straight CT finals.

 

India went t20 finals in 2014 and then set 190 target in 2016 semis.Any time they set below par/par score it was a loss.

 

2015 Qfs batting won, semifinal bowlers leaked 330.

 

2019 semis should have been won if Dhoni was any good other than defending straight balls.But do you think bowlers did well in those overcast conditions where they needed spinners to break partnership .  (batsmen failed)

 

Same thing in 2021 test finals. It was swinging everywhere and our ace could not pick up single wicket.

 

Historically other than 2003 finals most knock out matches have been won by bowlers.

 

So if we catgorize failure till 2023 finals. How many matches did bowling superstars pickup battting superstars and vice versa.

Edited March 18, 2025 by putrevus

[rollingstoned]

8 minutes ago, putrevus said:

let us see Indian knock out failures from 2013 in all formats.I agree the batsmen should be chasing par scores.They did do that that is why India went to three straight CT finals.

 

India went t20 finals in 2014 and then set 190 target in 2016 semis.Any time they set below par/par score it was a loss.

 

2015 Qfs batting won, semifinal bowlers leaked 330.

 

2019 semis should have been won if Dhoni was any good other than defending straight balls.But do you think bowlers did well in those overcast conditions where they needed spinners to break partnership .  (batsmen failed)

 

Same thing in 2021 test finals. It was swinging everywhere and our ace could not pick up single wicket.

 

Historically other than 2003 finals most knock out matches have been won by bowlers.

 

So if we catgorize failure till 2023 finals. How many matches did bowling superstars pickup battting superstars and vice versa.

2014 final was as big a batting failure as it can get in the biggest most imp game of the tournament. Can't pretend like it didn't happen. Kohli and Yuvraj shat the bed and batted too slowly making those SL trundlers look like heroes. Ashwin was our best player that tournament. 

 

2015 semi also against a rampaging Aussie batting we conceded par score, Kohli had a poor tournament and got out to Johnson on a nothing ball when needed. Dhoni also did not show any intent and killed the game. Only Hitman showed some intent and looked good. Bowling was standout more than batting for India throught this tournament, Ashwin, mohit Sharma and Umesh Yadav all had great tourneys. 

2016 semi against that WI batting line up was an under par score at Wankhede. Again a failure. You can blame hahane n Tony for this tho. 

 

2017 ct final also batsmen didn't step up in flat Oval wicket to chase it when bowling failed in only 1 match that mattered. Using your logic when they succeed so often, they are allowed to fail once in a while and batsmen as highly rated as Kohli are also allowed to chase huge scores in a big games.

 

2019 semi we only conceded slightly more than we should've imo and were unlucky with conditions next day but it was ripe for big knocks from Hitman and Kohli who were piling on runs all tournament. They only had to see off new ball instead of exposing middle and lower order which didn't have much practise throught tournament and failed when it mattered. Indian batting was making huge scores but very top heavy at this time and no good middle order batsmen were groomed. 

 

2021 wtc final was a batting failure as much as a bowling failure considering wr did not pick ideal attack for the conditions. We got out cheaply first innings and then second innings in a severely rain affected game we could nto even bat put a draw for sharing the trophy on the final day. Big stars and seniors again found ways to get out when we were counting on them to stay out there. We only needed to bat 2 more hours and negate the disadvantage of a lost toss. 

 

Will mention also failures in 2021 and 2022 T20 wc.

 

All WCs Aussies have won recently has been on the back of extreme batting depth and firepower. England's 2019 wc win too.  Team relying on bowling to win it has not happened for some time, maybe if we had won it in 2023 that might have been a good shout. 

 

[putrevus]

7 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

2014 final was as big a batting failure as it can get in the biggest most imp game of the tournament. Can't pretend like it didn't happen. Kohli and Yuvraj shat the bed and batted too slowly making those SL trundlers look like heroes. Ashwin was our best player that tournament. 

 

2015 semi also against a rampaging Aussie batting we conceded par score, Kohli had a poor tournament and got out to Johnson on a nothing ball when needed. Dhoni also did not show any intent and killed the game. Only Hitman showed some intent and looked good. Bowling was standout more than batting for India throught this tournament, Ashwin, mohit Sharma and Umesh Yadav all had great tourneys. 

2016 semi against that WI batting line up was an under par score at Wankhede. Again a failure. You can blame hahane n Tony for this tho. 

 

2017 ct final also batsmen didn't step up in flat Oval wicket to chase it when bowling failed in only 1 match that mattered. Using your logic when they succeed so often, they are allowed to fail once in a while and batsmen as highly rated as Kohli are also allowed to chase huge scores in a big games.

 

2019 semi we only conceded slightly more than we should've imo and were unlucky with conditions next day but it was ripe for big knocks from Hitman and Kohli who were piling on runs all tournament. They only had to see off new ball instead of exposing middle and lower order which didn't have much practise throught tournament and failed when it mattered. Indian batting was making huge scores but very top heavy at this time and no good middle order batsmen were groomed. 

 

2021 wtc final was a batting failure as much as a bowling failure considering wr did not pick ideal attack for the conditions. We got out cheaply first innings and then second innings in a severely rain affected game we could nto even bat put a draw for sharing the trophy on the final day. Big stars and seniors again found ways to get out when we were counting on them to stay out there. We only needed to bat 2 more hours and negate the disadvantage of a lost toss. 

 

Will mention also failures in 2021 and 2022 T20 wc.

 

All WCs Aussies have won recently has been on the back of extreme batting depth and firepower. England's 2019 wc win too.  Team relying on bowling to win it has not happened for some time, maybe if we had won it in 2023 that might have been a good shout. 

 

You are making my point, if batting had bad day it was loss.

 

Aussie bowlers won by defending 212 in 2003 semis and 211 in 1999 semis. just few examples.2015 world cup finals, 2023 world finals, bowlers won those matches for Australia bowling first.

 

So if batting has to keep scoring 400 to win knockout matches then why do we need bowlers.

 

2021 and 2022 wt20 when bowlers cannot a take a single wicket, no score is enough.

 

For a decade Indian batting bad day means loss.

 

Edited March 18, 2025 by putrevus

[rollingstoned]

2 minutes ago, putrevus said:

You are making my point, if batting had bad day it was loss.

 

Aussie bowlers won by defending 212 in 2003 semis and 211 in 1999 semis. just few examples.

 

So if batting has to keep scoring 400 to win knockout matches then why do we need bowlers.

 

2021 and 2022 wt20 when bowlers cannot a take a single wicket, no score is enough.

 

For a decade Indian batting bad day means loss.

 

You want to give batting credit but want also to cut them slack when they fail in finals asking that why bowlers cannot save them? All im saying is they should at least get par scores on wickets that require them to stand up. You cannot refer to Aussies defending 212 in 2003 selectively ignoring 2003 final and then ask why bowlers did not defend 240 in 2024 or 190 on 2016 at Wankhede. They are not apples for apples. There too Head was reason Aussie won the final, we rarely have had someone bat like that in a final for us. 

[putrevus]

2 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

You want to give batting credit but want also to cut them slack when they fail in finals asking that why bowlers cannot save them? All im saying is they should at least get par scores on wickets that require them to stand up. You cannot refer to Aussies defending 212 in 2003 selectively ignoring 2003 final and then ask why bowlers did not defend 240 in 2024 or 190 on 2016 at Wankhede. They are not apples for apples. There too Head was reason Aussie won the final, we rarely have had someone bat like that in a final for us. 

India did not proceed further than semis from 2015 in world cups, and lost one CT finals in 2017. They kept failing in world cup semi finals once batting failed till they scored nearly 400 in 2023. I did not ignore 2003 finals , I did mention 2003 finals as batsmen winning it for Australia.

 

For a decade, IMO batting has done more than bowling in what ever knock out matches they won . You can assign the blame  to batting .

 

Bowlers get to do more in knockout matches and once you have just five batsmen , bowlers become far more important as most of them could not handle the bat.

 

Last world cup India won in 2011 with (6 batsmen plus decent Dhoni). 4 bowlers to kept teams to manageable totals.While defending 262 in Mohali in dewy conditions.

 

[singhvivek141]

56 minutes ago, putrevus said:

let us see Indian knock out failures from 2013 in all formats.I agree the batsmen should be chasing par scores.They did do that that is why India went to three straight CT finals.

 

India went t20 finals in 2014 and then set 190 target in 2016 semis.Any time they set below par/par score it was a loss.

 

2015 Qfs batting won, semifinal bowlers leaked 330.

 

2019 semis should have been won if Dhoni was any good other than defending straight balls.But do you think bowlers did well in those overcast conditions where they needed spinners to break partnership .  (batsmen failed)

 

Same thing in 2021 test finals. It was swinging everywhere and our ace could not pick up single wicket.

 

Historically other than 2003 finals most knock out matches have been won by bowlers.

 

So if we catgorize failure till 2023 finals. How many matches did bowling superstars pickup battting superstars and vice versa.

Even if Bumrah couln't pickup a wicket. The collective bowling effort still kept the score to a 2nd inns shootout.
Batting flopped with 170 all out in second inns...had they scored 250-270, we would have competitive.
So game wasn't finished in first inns...it's the batting choke job in second inns which led to our defeat.

2019 SF, we lost the game there itself when we were 4/24 in 10 overs. Then Shri Mahendra Babubali didn't used his cricketing acumen which he used in 2011 ODI WC finale.

[Lord]

38 minutes ago, putrevus said:

You are making my point, if batting had bad day it was loss.

 

Aussie bowlers won by defending 212 in 2003 semis and 211 in 1999 semis. just few examples.2015 world cup finals, 2023 world finals, bowlers won those matches for Australia bowling first.

 

So if batting has to keep scoring 400 to win knockout matches then why do we need bowlers.

 

2021 and 2022 wt20 when bowlers cannot a take a single wicket, no score is enough.

 

For a decade Indian batting bad day means loss.

 

 

Aus bowling won 2023 bowling first and conceding 240. Indian bowlers lost 2019 semi conceding 240