Confirmed News : Both Rohit and Virat are going to play the 2027 World Cup

[R!TTER]

No one's blaming the batters for losing the WToss trophy in 2021, or the finals in 2003 - but apparently BRat's paid(unpaid?) bots want to conveniently forget how he bowled first on an absolute belter in 2017 finals! Better still we also dropped Shami/Umesh our two best bowlers in ICC KO, even now, & let's not forget the complete cluster* with the selection of 4 wks in 2019 SF when Kja/Dud were both being playing for the middle order role for 3-4 years, right till the WC started  

 

You can't tell me you excuse the greatest Choke master ever for his failure to chase big/modest totals & then completely forget the *ing fact that he was the captain 

On 3/17/2025 at 9:24 PM, mikeypbadana86 said:

Failure is the right word. Not shaming with tags like choking when its not the case. 

I don't care what you call him, he's a certified choker & grade A failure in KO games!

 

Opposition team Australia  or England  or India  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 1990

Trophy ICC Champions Trophy (ICC KnockOut)  or World Cup

Match type tournament finals  or tournament cons. finals  or tournament semi-finals  or tournament quarter-finals

Qualifications matches played greater than or equal to 8

Ordered by batting average (descending)

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
SR Watson (AUS)	2002-2015	11	10	5	427	136*	85.40	521	81.95	2	2	1	38	13
SC Ganguly (IND)	1998-2003	9	7	1	403	141*	67.16	474	85.02	2	1	0	39	13
JH Kallis (SA)	1998-2011	10	10	2	475	113*	59.37	647	73.41	1	3	0	39	7
S Chanderpaul (WI)	1996-2011	10	10	2	472	80	59.00	702	67.23	0	4	0	43	4
MJ Guptill (NZ)	2009-2019	9	9	1	397	237*	49.62	420	94.52	1	0	0	37	15
DPMD Jayawardene (SL)	2000-2015	12	11	3	387	115*	48.37	452	85.61	2	1	0	36	3
SR Tendulkar (IND)	1996-2011	14	13	1	574	141	47.83	712	80.61	1	4	0	66	7
Yuvraj Singh (IND)	2000-2017	11	9	2	329	84	47.00	361	91.13	0	3	1	41	0
RT Ponting (AUS)	1996-2011	18	18	2	731	140*	45.68	896	81.58	3	1	2	61	13
KS Williamson (NZ)	2011-2025	10	10	1	390	102	43.33	465	83.87	1	2	0	38	4
BC Lara (WI)	1996-2006	9	9	2	299	111	42.71	337	88.72	1	1	0	36	1
KC Sangakkara (SL)	2000-2015	12	11	1	422	54	42.20	682	61.87	0	3	0	42	2
MS Dhoni (IND)	2011-2019	8	7	1	242	91*	40.33	286	84.61	0	3	1	15	5
RA Jadeja (IND)	2013-2025	9	7	3	161	77	40.25	156	103.20	0	1	0	9	6
V Kohli (IND)	2011-2025	12	12	1	432	117	39.27	505	85.54	1	3	0	31	4
MG Bevan (AUS)	1996-2003	10	7	1	232	69	38.66	364	63.73	0	2	1	16	1
PA de Silva (SL)	1996-2003	9	9	2	267	107*	38.14	295	90.50	1	1	1	40	0
MJ Clarke (AUS)	2004-2015	9	8	2	224	74	37.33	262	85.49	0	2	0	26	1
AC Gilchrist (AUS)	1998-2007	12	12	0	434	149	36.16	395	109.87	1	2	0	50	13
R Dravid (IND)	1998-2003	9	7	0	253	58	36.14	382	66.23	0	1	0	20	0
LRPL Taylor (NZ)	2007-2019	10	10	0	333	74	33.30	519	64.16	0	1	0	15	4
RG Sharma (IND)	2013-2025	9	9	0	275	76	30.55	291	94.50	0	1	1	24	13
ST Jayasuriya (SL)	1996-2007	12	12	0	350	82	29.16	351	99.71	0	3	2	44	7
JN Rhodes (SA)	1992-2002	9	8	1	196	61*	28.00	248	79.03	0	1	1	12	2

[singhvivek141]

Coming to Bowling, well we lost the match in 2022 T20 WC vs England by 10 wkts coz we just scored 168 which England Chased with 10 wickets remaining.
Cut to 2024 T20 WC SF, and our batters only scored 171, just a 3 run improvement against same opposition. It was bowlers who pulled the game and got England out for 103 somethings.
Then Final 2024 T20 WC, we only scored 176...against just a 5 run improvement over SF. Bowlers pulled the game when 30 off 30 were required.

Bowlers helped us win 2 knockout games back to back. 

[Muloghonto]

Well, if Virat hangs around till 2027, i want to start taking bets on whether Virat retires with a test average above or below 45.

We know Gangu-bhai went from a 50-ish averaging noob batter to ultimately end up barely averaging 40+ but at least Gangubhai was a jhakaas captain and wasnt eating up #4 spot in test cricket and screwing it up, he hid himself at 5 or 6 mostly and mitigated damage by letting other batters hog the limelight.

 

And most importantly, nobody ever thought Gangubhai was an ATG batter or in convo for ATG batter in the test arena at any point in his career,so as far as most were concerned, a 40+ average out of 100 test while mostly carrying captaincy pressure and being the most successful captain of india up to that point in history, is adequate for an international cricketer...

For Virat however, to go from a high 50s averaging batter to ending career potentially at or below 45 mark, must go down as one of the greatest decline of a batter's current averages to final average in cricket's history.

 

[Suhaan]

1 hour ago, rollingstoned said:

You want to give batting credit but want also to cut them slack when they fail in finals asking that why bowlers cannot save them? All im saying is they should at least get par scores on wickets that require them to stand up. You cannot refer to Aussies defending 212 in 2003 selectively ignoring 2003 final and then ask why bowlers did not defend 240 in 2024 or 190 on 2016 at Wankhede. They are not apples for apples. There too Head was reason Aussie won the final, we rarely have had someone bat like that in a final for us. 

Arey itne badhiya badhiya post kis dheeth aadmi pe waste kar rahe ho

 

[mikeypbadana86]

1 hour ago, R!TTER said:

No one's blaming the batters for losing the WToss trophy in 2021, or the finals in 2003 - but apparently BRat's paid(unpaid?) bots want to conveniently forget how he bowled first on an absolute belter in 2017 finals! Better still we also dropped Shami/Umesh our two best bowlers in ICC KO, even now, & let's not forget the complete cluster* with the selection of 4 wks in 2019 SF when Kja/Dud were both being playing for the middle order role for 3-4 years, right till the WC started  

 

You can't tell me you excuse the greatest Choke master ever for his failure to chase big/modest totals & then completely forget the *ing fact that he was the captain 

I don't care what you call him, he's a certified choker & grade A failure in KO games!

 

Opposition team Australia  or England  or India  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 1990

Trophy ICC Champions Trophy (ICC KnockOut)  or World Cup

Match type tournament finals  or tournament cons. finals  or tournament semi-finals  or tournament quarter-finals

Qualifications matches played greater than or equal to 8

Ordered by batting average (descending)

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
SR Watson (AUS)	2002-2015	11	10	5	427	136*	85.40	521	81.95	2	2	1	38	13
SC Ganguly (IND)	1998-2003	9	7	1	403	141*	67.16	474	85.02	2	1	0	39	13
JH Kallis (SA)	1998-2011	10	10	2	475	113*	59.37	647	73.41	1	3	0	39	7
S Chanderpaul (WI)	1996-2011	10	10	2	472	80	59.00	702	67.23	0	4	0	43	4
MJ Guptill (NZ)	2009-2019	9	9	1	397	237*	49.62	420	94.52	1	0	0	37	15
DPMD Jayawardene (SL)	2000-2015	12	11	3	387	115*	48.37	452	85.61	2	1	0	36	3
SR Tendulkar (IND)	1996-2011	14	13	1	574	141	47.83	712	80.61	1	4	0	66	7
Yuvraj Singh (IND)	2000-2017	11	9	2	329	84	47.00	361	91.13	0	3	1	41	0
RT Ponting (AUS)	1996-2011	18	18	2	731	140*	45.68	896	81.58	3	1	2	61	13
KS Williamson (NZ)	2011-2025	10	10	1	390	102	43.33	465	83.87	1	2	0	38	4
BC Lara (WI)	1996-2006	9	9	2	299	111	42.71	337	88.72	1	1	0	36	1
KC Sangakkara (SL)	2000-2015	12	11	1	422	54	42.20	682	61.87	0	3	0	42	2
MS Dhoni (IND)	2011-2019	8	7	1	242	91*	40.33	286	84.61	0	3	1	15	5
RA Jadeja (IND)	2013-2025	9	7	3	161	77	40.25	156	103.20	0	1	0	9	6
V Kohli (IND)	2011-2025	12	12	1	432	117	39.27	505	85.54	1	3	0	31	4
MG Bevan (AUS)	1996-2003	10	7	1	232	69	38.66	364	63.73	0	2	1	16	1
PA de Silva (SL)	1996-2003	9	9	2	267	107*	38.14	295	90.50	1	1	1	40	0
MJ Clarke (AUS)	2004-2015	9	8	2	224	74	37.33	262	85.49	0	2	0	26	1
AC Gilchrist (AUS)	1998-2007	12	12	0	434	149	36.16	395	109.87	1	2	0	50	13
R Dravid (IND)	1998-2003	9	7	0	253	58	36.14	382	66.23	0	1	0	20	0
LRPL Taylor (NZ)	2007-2019	10	10	0	333	74	33.30	519	64.16	0	1	0	15	4
RG Sharma (IND)	2013-2025	9	9	0	275	76	30.55	291	94.50	0	1	1	24	13
ST Jayasuriya (SL)	1996-2007	12	12	0	350	82	29.16	351	99.71	0	3	2	44	7
JN Rhodes (SA)	1992-2002	9	8	1	196	61*	28.00	248	79.03	0	1	1	12	2

Nothing much separates between virat and sachin.

12 matches 432 runs(virat) 

14 matches 574 runs (sachin) 

 

I don't care what you call him, he's a certified choker & grade A failure in KO games!

check his champions trophy ICC record in knock outs. t20 knock out record. 2019 ODI WC was on a bowling paradise where west indies in 1983 could not chase 183, pak could not score 132. t20 2024 final, 2023 champions trophy semis were both knock outs where he had contribution. 

[rollingstoned]

8 hours ago, putrevus said:

India did not proceed further than semis from 2015 in world cups, and lost one CT finals in 2017. They kept failing in world cup semi finals once batting failed till they scored nearly 400 in 2023. I did not ignore 2003 finals , I did mention 2003 finals as batsmen winning it for Australia.

 

For a decade, IMO batting has done more than bowling in what ever knock out matches they won . You can assign the blame  to batting .

 

Bowlers get to do more in knockout matches and once you have just five batsmen , bowlers become far more important as most of them could not handle the bat.

 

Last world cup India won in 2011 with (6 batsmen plus decent Dhoni). 4 bowlers to kept teams to manageable totals.While defending 262 in Mohali in dewy conditions.

 

It is not that difficult, team is not reaching semis and knockouts only because of batsmen that you are saying once batting fails team loses. Defining feature of team since 2013 being the batting means you expect them to stand up and make it count in big games by stamping their authority since they are rated this highly, it doesn't mean however that bowling was made up of useless bums. You want to give them the credit that superstars deserve without also giving them the accountability instead deflecting blame and using irrelevant examples. You are not even using same yardsticks whether it is a matter of bowlers or batsmen from other teams who are doing what our chase masters and double centurion superstars should have done. Apart from Hitman I cannot think of commanding performances with the bat in KOs and finals by any of our batsmen recently while I can think of a few by opposition batsmen even chasing par and subpar scores. Not even a batting display on par with Bumrah in 2024 wt20 final who you seem eager to criticise. 

 

 

In 2011 we chased and scored a decent total in the final, do also mention that. If they had failed using your logic you would have said  bowlers are also allowed to restrict opposition teams to low totals in good batting conditions, when batsmen fail team loses. Tournament was won because of batting depth and good part time options. 

[R!TTER]

7 hours ago, mikeypbadana86 said:

Nothing much separates between virat and sachin.

12 matches 432 runs(virat) 

14 matches 574 runs (sachin) 

You're joking right, he first played the WC in 1992 where 150 was a winning score & he batted lower middle order 

 

You not only continue to defend the choke master but then also make all sorts of excuses for him, should really join his PR team if you're not in there already 

[mikeypbadana86]

3 hours ago, R!TTER said:

You're joking right, he first played the WC in 1992 where 150 was a winning score & he batted lower middle order 

 

You not only continue to defend the choke master but then also make all sorts of excuses for him, should really join his PR team if you're not in there already 

I have watched sachin and virat in their prime. For argument sake, assume virat is choke master for being the man of the tournament in 2014 t20, 2016 t20 and 2023 ODI world cup. multiple champion trophy knock out performances, multiple t20 final perfomances, odi century and half century  in 2023 ODI semis and final. 

 

1992 The winning score was not 150, NZ could not defend 260 in semis against PAK, do not talk crap.

 

1992 1996 1999 2003 2007 2011 out of 6 world cups Sachins only true performance in knock out was in 2011 Quarter final where he scored a 50 ( in addition to gambhir/yuvraj). 

1996- he scored 60 odd but foolishly threw it away with a silly run out which resulted in India 99/1 to 120/8. A set batter should take the team through.

2011 semis---4 dropped catches 

2003 final- you know the answer

2011 final- you know the answer

2007 crucial knock out match against BAN/SL- you know the answer

1999- 2 knock out matches against NZ and AUS- Super six- You know the answer.

 

If kohli is a choke master, sachin is a choke legend. You should be consistent in calling out "choke legends" across formats and generations. If you are attributing kohli has tendency to choke in knock outs, what explains his multiple knock out innings in 2014 t20 semis, 2016 t20 semis, 2016 t20 virtual quarter final against pak,2022 t20 once in generaitonal 26 off 8 against PAK( melbourne 2022), 2013 champions trophy final, 2017 champions trophy semi final, 2025 champions trophy final and 2024 t20 final knocks. 

How on earth kohli does not choke in other ICC tournies but only selectively chokes to fit in the "fake data" by certain troller @RITTER

Edited March 19, 2025 by mikeypbadana86

[saneindian]

4 hours ago, mikeypbadana86 said:

I have watched sachin and virat in their prime. For argument sake, assume virat is choke master for being the man of the tournament in 2014 t20, 2016 t20 and 2023 ODI world cup. multiple champion trophy knock out performances, multiple t20 final perfomances, odi century and half century  in 2023 ODI semis and final. 

 

1992 The winning score was not 150, NZ could not defend 260 in semis against PAK, do not talk crap.

 

1992 1996 1999 2003 2007 2011 out of 6 world cups Sachins only true performance in knock out was in 2011 Quarter final where he scored a 50 ( in addition to gambhir/yuvraj). 

1996- he scored 60 odd but foolishly threw it away with a silly run out which resulted in India 99/1 to 120/8. A set batter should take the team through.

2011 semis---4 dropped catches 

2003 final- you know the answer

2011 final- you know the answer

2007 crucial knock out match against BAN/SL- you know the answer

1999- 2 knock out matches against NZ and AUS- Super six- You know the answer.

 

If kohli is a choke master, sachin is a choke legend. You should be consistent in calling out "choke legends" across formats and generations. If you are attributing kohli has tendency to choke in knock outs, what explains his multiple knock out innings in 2014 t20 semis, 2016 t20 semis, 2016 t20 virtual quarter final against pak,2022 t20 once in generaitonal 26 off 8 against PAK( melbourne 2022), 2013 champions trophy final, 2017 champions trophy semi final, 2025 champions trophy final and 2024 t20 final knocks. 

How on earth kohli does not choke in other ICC tournies but only selectively chokes to fit in the "fake data" by certain troller @RITTER

Not to spark another debate between two legends, but funny how these knocks mysteriously didn’t make the cut: 141 vs Aus (1998 CT QF), 69 vs NZ (2000 CT Final), 53 vs Aus (2011 QF)

 

Also, funny how dropped catches count for one but magically don’t for the other. Same goes for 'crucial matches'—2007 for one, but 2021 conveniently disappears for the other. The selective memory is truly something else!

 

Oh, and while we're at it, maybe ease up on bashing our own GOATs? Whatever words you’ve thrown at them, they deserve better.

[R!TTER]

  

6 hours ago, mikeypbadana86 said:

I have watched sachin and virat in their prime. For argument sake, assume virat is choke master for being the man of the tournament in 2014 t20, 2016 t20 and 2023 ODI world cup. multiple champion trophy knock out performances, multiple t20 final perfomances, odi century and half century  in 2023 ODI semis and final. 

 

1992 The winning score was not 150, NZ could not defend 260 in semis against PAK, do not talk crap.

 

1992 1996 1999 2003 2007 2011 out of 6 world cups Sachins only true performance in knock out was in 2011 Quarter final where he scored a 50 ( in addition to gambhir/yuvraj). 

1996- he scored 60 odd but foolishly threw it away with a silly run out which resulted in India 99/1 to 120/8. A set batter should take the team through.

2011 semis---4 dropped catches 

2003 final- you know the answer

2011 final- you know the answer

2007 crucial knock out match against BAN/SL- you know the answer

1999- 2 knock out matches against NZ and AUS- Super six- You know the answer.

 

If kohli is a choke master, sachin is a choke legend. You should be consistent in calling out "choke legends" across formats and generations. If you are attributing kohli has tendency to choke in knock outs, what explains his multiple knock out innings in 2014 t20 semis, 2016 t20 semis, 2016 t20 virtual quarter final against pak,2022 t20 once in generaitonal 26 off 8 against PAK( melbourne 2022), 2013 champions trophy final, 2017 champions trophy semi final, 2025 champions trophy final and 2024 t20 final knocks. 

How on earth kohli does not choke in other ICC tournies but only selectively chokes to fit in the "fake data" by certain troller @RITTER

 

We're talking about ODI's - T20 are irrelevant to the discussion & so is SRT wrt WT20.

 

Oh STFU, 150 was defendable on many of those pitches especially with the rain interruption! And you're counting someone's runs for majority of who's career 2 new balls were the norm - what was the avg team total post 2012 & between 92-2012 you know the massive disparity right?

 

Just one true performance? What the * does that even mean? You think Oz win that SF vs SA in 99 if Bevan didn't score a 50, you think Warne was the solo performer, or Ponting in 2003 

 

It was a stumping numbnut, get your facts straight! And yes it was bad, but not so much that rest of the chumps completely forgot batting on their own.

 

Dopped catches? If it weren't for dropped catches choke master would avg in single digits in tests in Eng

 

What answer, that Zak shite the bed? No one could chase over 300 against the best ODI side ever, not even 2007 Oz squad that side was simply the best 

 

Bangladesh match a knockout? Maybe you should've informed the ICC back then 

 

We're just counting actual/official knockouts here because Cricinfo or Statsguru doesn't account for your feelings or opinion about KO games!

Edited March 19, 2025 by R!TTER

[R!TTER]

Opposition team Australia  or Bangladesh  or England  or India  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies  or Zimbabwe  Start of match date between 1 Jan 1991 and 31 Dec 2011  Innings in match 2nd innings  Grouped by team  Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 50  and balls faced greater than or equal to 75    Overall figures Team Players Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0   Australia 95 1991-2011 222 1626 391 42079 185* 34.07 55273 76.12 43 250 112   South Africa 95 1991-2011 229 1761 403 43839 175 32.28 58956 74.35 33 252 123   India 130 1991-2011 298 2411 495 58330 183* 30.44 76340 76.40 58 332 172   Pakistan 117 1991-2011 253 2137 409 48825 139* 28.25 66374 73.56 40 263 181   Sri Lanka 101 1991-2011 246 2021 413 44737 160 27.82 61125 73.18 43 224 189   New Zealand 109 1991-2011 214 1818 354 38912 141 26.57 53531 72.69 32 195 160   England 130 1991-2011 197 1677 318 36028 158 26.51 49790 72.35 22 198 146   West Indies 122 1991-2011 233 1984 371 42401 153 26.28 59409 71.37 35 229 189   Zimbabwe 100 1992-2011 167 1601 254 29664 145* 22.02 44413 66.79 14 148 170   Bangladesh 69 1995-2011 109 1013 169 18569 154 22.00 28032 66.24 8 95 107   Kenya 38 1996-2011 40 394 53 6367 106* 18.67 10524 60.49 1 26 45   Ireland 32 2006-2011 17 176 23 2818 113 18.41 4064 69.34 2 7 18   Canada 41 2003-2011 11 113 16 1784 93 18.39 2945 60.57 0 9 11   ICC World XI 14 2005-2005 3 33 3 530 64 17.66 697 76.04 0 3 4   Netherlands 41 1996-2011 15 153 20 2252 67 16.93 3670 61.36 0 8 22   U.A.E. 39 1994-2008 7 76 10 1039 78 15.74 1877 55.35 0 4 11   Bermuda 20 2006-2007 4 42 5 490 76* 13.24 1003 48.85 0 2 10   Scotland 33 1999-2011 6 65 6 732 76 12.40 1453 50.37 0 3 12   U.S.A. 11 2004-2004 1 11 1 119 39 11.90 255 46.66 0 0 3   Namibia 15 2003-2003 5 51 7 513 85 11.65 909 56.43 0 1 12   Hong Kong 20 2004-2008 4 44 5 454 36 11.64 990 45.85 0 0 9     There's an almost 30% difference in avg, some of it is down to better batting by India overall but also the 2 new balls! Batting has never been easier than it's been in ODI's right now, except a short period between 2013-2016 when there was an additional batting PP & less fielders outside.

Opposition team Australia  or Bangladesh  or England  or India  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies  or Zimbabwe

Start of match date between 1 Jan 2012 and 31 Dec 2025

Innings in match 2nd innings

Grouped by team

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 50  and balls faced greater than or equal to 75

Overall figures

Team	Players	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
India	88	2012-2025	145	1067	254	31872	183	39.20	35922	88.72	56	176	68	3097	588
England	69	2012-2025	104	833	174	23225	180	35.24	25643	90.57	38	121	77	2234	425
South Africa	68	2012-2025	95	769	160	20195	178	33.16	22708	88.93	24	106	43	1994	336
Oman	11	2023-2023	1	10	1	298	103	33.11	302	98.67	1	0	0	32	3
Australia	77	2012-2025	95	805	156	20724	177*	31.93	23010	90.06	26	112	55	1986	402
New Zealand	66	2012-2025	100	816	164	20788	181*	31.88	23452	88.64	32	102	66	2007	429
Pakistan	83	2012-2025	108	908	172	23155	193	31.46	27488	84.23	33	127	72	2145	396
Sri Lanka	85	2012-2025	115	984	184	23187	140	28.98	27594	84.02	30	122	89	2243	355
Bangladesh	61	2012-2024	71	599	112	14104	127*	28.96	17220	81.90	14	81	62	1428	218
West Indies	85	2012-2024	99	921	151	20069	162	26.06	24069	83.38	24	88	96	1751	609
Afghanistan	49	2012-2025	49	446	72	8942	149*	23.90	12008	74.46	6	47	48	803	189
Ireland	38	2013-2025	37	355	53	7141	142	23.64	8910	80.14	8	29	37	713	122
U.A.E.	39	2015-2023	6	59	9	1182	112*	23.64	1701	69.48	1	4	7	108	26
Netherlands	37	2013-2023	21	210	27	4283	111	23.40	5213	82.15	2	25	25	413	73
Hong Kong	13	2018-2018	2	21	3	412	92	22.88	584	70.54	0	3	2	30	9
Zimbabwe	68	2012-2024	57	550	79	10750	135*	22.82	14350	74.91	11	48	47	1024	177
U.S.A.	14	2023-2023	2	20	3	330	101*	19.41	451	73.17	1	0	4	30	6
Scotland	32	2013-2023	10	100	13	1605	74*	18.44	2280	70.39	0	8	11	162	20
Nepal	12	2023-2023	2	22	2	320	63	16.00	443	72.23	0	1	3	35	6

[mikeypbadana86]

5 hours ago, R!TTER said:

  

 

We're talking about ODI's - T20 are irrelevant to the discussion & so is SRT wrt WT20.

 

Oh STFU, 150 was defendable on many of those pitches especially with the rain interruption! And you're counting someone's runs for majority of who's career 2 new balls were the norm - what was the avg team total post 2012 & between 92-2012 you know the massive disparity right?

 

 

 

 

It was a stumping numbnut, get your facts straight! And yes it was bad, but not so much that rest of the chumps completely forgot batting on their own.

 

 

 

 

What answer, that Zak shite the bed? No one could chase over 300 against the best ODI side ever, not even 2007 Oz squad that side was simply the best 

 

Bangladesh match a knockout? Maybe you should've informed the ICC back then 

 

We're just counting actual/official knockouts here because Cricinfo or Statsguru doesn't account for your feelings or opinion about KO games!

It was a stumping numbnut, get your facts straight! And yes it was bad, but not so much that rest of the chumps completely forgot batting on their own.

Ganguly alone won the 1998 independence cup final. He was the leading batter from 1996-2002. Nat west final too, ganguly had great contribution. Sehwag emerged, dravid emerged, yuvi/kaif/earlier robin singh/jadeja. Do not give the crap of "one man carrying the burden when we had likes of all these batters who were good in their own right". Its ganguly who scored a magnificient hundread in 2000 icc tournament finals. 

 

Just one true performance? What the * does that even mean? You think Oz win that SF vs SA in 99 if Bevan didn't score a 50, you think Warne was the solo performer, or Ponting in 2003 

 

If 50 in 2011 QF against AUS of sachin was in winning cause, Kohlis magnificient 113 against NZ in 2023 ODI semis is choke knock??? How ......

 

Oh STFU, 150 was defendable on many of those pitches especially with the rain interruption! And you're counting someone's runs for majority of who's career 2 new balls were the norm - what was the avg team total post 2012 & between 92-2012 you know the massive disparity right?

Srilanka used to chase for run from 1996-2000 , any score in the excess of 250 plus. Peak 90's pak used to chase  240+ for fun. you say 150 was defendable. 

 

Dopped catches? If it weren't for dropped catches choke master would avg in single digits in tests in Eng

if you are ignoring t20 records of kohli, why are you bringing in tests as if they were ICC knock outs?

 

Overall, you were saying the choke legend sachin could not perform in 6 ODI world cup, innumerable knock outs since the bowling standards were better? Imagine the modern players with the advent of media(social media, commercilizaiton and reach of cricket to the next level) . If kohli did not play two new balls post 2012, sure sachin did not face the quartlet of west indies fast bowling legends with out helmets. My reason to bring sachin is to draw home the point, Kohli singlehandedly owns sachin in ICC knock outs/overall impactful knock out performances. Sehwag /ponting rates kohli above sachin, whole cricketing world does that. No choker can be rated that way. Neither the stats nor the batting class lies.

 

[mikeypbadana86]

6 hours ago, saneindian said:

Not to spark another debate between two legends, but funny how these knocks mysteriously didn’t make the cut: 141 vs Aus (1998 CT QF), 69 vs NZ (2000 CT Final), 53 vs Aus (2011 QF)

 

Also, funny how dropped catches count for one but magically don’t for the other. Same goes for 'crucial matches'—2007 for one, but 2021 conveniently disappears for the other. The selective memory is truly something else!

 

Oh, and while we're at it, maybe ease up on bashing our own GOATs? Whatever words you’ve thrown at them, they deserve better.

Overall record of kohli is as good or better than sachin. In comparitive analysis, if kohli is called as choker by the poster I am trying to say , sachin too should be....I have respect for both. Its just that the argument had to be made with relative analysis.

[Muloghonto]

1 hour ago, mikeypbadana86 said:

Overall record of kohli is as good or better than sachin. In comparitive analysis, if kohli is called as choker by the poster I am trying to say , sachin too should be....I have respect for both. Its just that the argument had to be made with relative analysis.

Kohli and Tendulkar played for two vastly different teams through their career trajectories.

For most of his career, Kohli has basically been a Viv Richards in a West-Indies like team ( though not as dominant in ODIs obviously) - the clear-cut upper middle order batting giant in a team with several good/great batsmen ( such as Rohit, Dhoni, Yuvraj,Raina, etc) and that is one of the top 3-4 fielding side on the planet and one of the top 3-4 bowling units when the likes of Bumrah+Shami+Jadeja are playing ODIs.

 

Sachin, until basically 2000 and the rise of Sehwag in ODIs, played a one-man batting show in a very brittle batting lineup, a very mediocre ODI bowling lineup ( Kumble+srinath were both mediocre in ODIs) and a horrible fielding side.
Even when he opened with Ganguly and for a period Ganguly outshone Tendy in opening chops, it was a 'we have two amazing openers, then its mid 30s averaging low 70s strike rate tuk tuk batsmen' all the way till 2000, when Sehwag showed up and gave India an option for another fast scoring high-mid 30s averaging ODI batsmen.
Shorly thereafter followed Yuvraj and Dhoni, two other batsmen who were fast scoring middle order bats with good to amazing run-scoring chops and Tendy could take it easy a bit but by then, Tendy had already scored like 30 of his 50 ODI centuries and was the best ODI batter since Viv by a country-mile.

 

People forget, hidden behind his stellar ODI record, is actually a quite mediocre ODI start for a teenager - for first 80 odd ODIs, tendy averaged a low 30s batter with mid 70s strike rate and IIRC he didnt score his first ODI century till his 80th ODI or something absurdly late like that.

Once he was thrust to opening, IIRC he averaged nearly 50- 48 or 49- in the 90s, in an era where no opener averaged more than 41-42 and did it at a strike rate equal to or faster than pretty much any opener not named Jayasurya ( Gillchrist didnt show up till 99-2000 as well).

Yes, Kohli has towering ODI figures of late 50s average, but relative to his generation, he stands out as much as Tendulkar did to his IMO.

I would clear-cut rate Kohli as one of top 4-5 ODI batters of alltime, with Tendulkar, Viv and Bevan/Dhoni being the only other names i can think of as his equal to or better in conversation.

 

In Kohli vs Tendulkar, one thing has to be remembered is beyond batting, Tendulkar is a far better cricketer than Kohli is. Kohli is a far better outfielder/atheletic fielder than Tendulkar is and thats it. Thats all he is better than Tendulkar at, outside batting arena. He is much more butter-fingers than Tendulkar as Tendy was NOT a catch-dropper of Kohli's callibre : Kohli has dropped more catches in a series than Tendy did in a year, plus Tendy was a 100 times more useful with a ball in hand if you had a tired Bumrah and ineffective spinner lead guy and other ineffective medium pacers as your other bowlers option.
Tendy in ODIs was an excellent option with ball in hand and can easily be trusted to make up 5-6 overs with decent economy rate and maybe even pickup a wicket here and there - an invaluable option in reality of ODI cricket.

Yes, Tendy didnt dive around saving as many runs as Kohli has. But he also wasnt butterfingers like Kohli is and can bowl- that IMO makes Tendy a clear cut superior cricketer than Kohli in any format, but especially in ODIs, where his bowling was actually of positive value for any team to have.

 

[R!TTER]

2 hours ago, mikeypbadana86 said:

Overall record of kohli is as good or better than sachin. In comparitive analysis, if kohli is called as choker by the poster I am trying to say , sachin too should be....I have respect for both. Its just that the argument had to be made with relative analysis.

Nope still a choker -

Now try to search for a common mistake he's making almost every time! Although you being a diehard(?) fan would probably excuse it.

[mikeypbadana86]

5 hours ago, R!TTER said:

Nope still a choker -

Now try to search for a common mistake he's making almost every time! Although you being a diehard(?) fan would probably excuse it.

shall i put the 2011 final innings where a certain legend goes to the pavillion, driving on off? I am no die hard fan. Temeprementally some one like KL rahul is a choker so is DK etc but not Kohli.

2011- you cant call kohli a choker since a nobody kohli outscored tendulkar and built a crucial partnership as admitted by Dhoni in post match

 

2015- I agree he failed, the solace is he tried attacking jhonson

2019- Umpires call dimission

2023 semis -113 you will hide in a corner

2023 final- 50 + you will go missing

2024 t20 final- 76 crucial match winning runs

2025 ct semis - 84 crucial runs

 

You should take the overall sample size. 

 

[R!TTER]

You're counting one inning, where admittedly he did well. While a plus & definitely not a failure, he failed in the other two. Where the other "old man" was critical in our win.

 

He failed against Bangers & MJ, in fact had RGS been given out on that marginal no ball we would've lost the game!

 

An lbw is an lbw is an lbw, maybe we should strike all those *nor lbw off SRT's record as well as put a W for India.

 

2023 SF - did you even watch the game? The entire STAR/comm box crew were cheering for his 50th ton! It was the most selfish display of PR/fanvoyerism ever - without Iyer's innings we probably lose that game as well, at least have some shame before bringing out that innings 

 

2023 final was not a failure & I've said that more than once here, so basically 2 "good" innings in WC KO - according to your criteria or maybe not who knows since you'll go to any lengths to defend him. You're obviously ignoring the team strength overall, but hey you do you.

 

Ok so 2 good innings in CT KO's then?

 

The overall sample size will show you 4-6 good innings and 8-10 failures, again depending on your own preference. Don't care either way but unlike the "other guy" this one was playing with our best ODI outfits in a WC at least twice. If you fail with such strong outfits constantly, it is on you especially as cap in 2017 & then 2019 as well.

[mikeypbadana86]

On 3/19/2025 at 9:22 PM, R!TTER said:

You're counting one inning, where admittedly he did well. While a plus & definitely not a failure, he failed in the other two. Where the other "old man" was critical in our win.

 

He failed against Bangers & MJ, in fact had RGS been given out on that marginal no ball we would've lost the game!

 

An lbw is an lbw is an lbw, maybe we should strike all those *nor lbw off SRT's record as well as put a W for India.

 

2023 SF - did you even watch the game? The entire STAR/comm box crew were cheering for his 50th ton! It was the most selfish display of PR/fanvoyerism ever - without Iyer's innings we probably lose that game as well, at least have some shame before bringing out that innings 

 

2023 final was not a failure & I've said that more than once here, so basically 2 "good" innings in WC KO - according to your criteria or maybe not who knows since you'll go to any lengths to defend him. You're obviously ignoring the team strength overall, but hey you do you.

 

Ok so 2 good innings in CT KO's then?

 

The overall sample size will show you 4-6 good innings and 8-10 failures, again depending on your own preference. Don't care either way but unlike the "other guy" this one was playing with our best ODI outfits in a WC at least twice. If you fail with such strong outfits constantly, it is on you especially as cap in 2017 & then 2019 as well.

2013 ct final 2017 ct semis and 2025 ct semis make it 3 knock out performance

 

2014 t20 final 2016 t20 semis 2014 t20 semis and 2014 t20 final make it 4 knock out innings 

 

T20 worldcups and champions trophy's are icc tournies too . Kohli did great. Yes his odi knock outs are underwhelming in comparison. Why would he selectively choke?

 

 

2023 semis and final: 113 and 50 

2011 ODI final an innings of 35

 

2019 is his true failure. 

 

Talent and elegance wise tendulkar >> kohli 

 

Temperament/mental toughness + ruthlness ness kohli >> sachin 

 

Number of matches it didn't help rohit didn't even play 5 overs in knock outs.

 

Sure kohli had great team around but he is a victim of his own approach to game where every thing can be overcome with grit/passion. All the time being intense and charged up helped him get the best out of himself but in a teams cause unless the other players have similar mindset , its not ideal which is why we see mixed results under his captaincy but for tests. A captain has to be great man manager , with an aussie mindset he has he doesn't fit in to be great man manager which meant mixed results.

 

I am no fan boy of him as you accuse. He is no choker is what my point is. Why would he choose to choke in 2015 odi semis and 2019 semis and perform well in remaining t20 world cup and ICC champion trophies  and also 2011/2023 odi world cups. 

 

26 off 8 balls with 100k people watching in stadium with 2 years of bad form, he managed to win it. A choker won't. 

 

The only reasonable failure i attribute to his 2015 and 2019 failures is , kohli tends to take the game deep which means he will not be aggresive until he is set which gives bowler a chance , May be this is the plausible explaination. 

 

[putrevus]

I see some geniuses are still trying to portray Kohli as a failure.

 

He is single reason why India was relevant in all formats for a decade.If he had any help from his choking bowlers like Bumrah . He would have had few more ICC titles.

 

Even in 155/0 and 173/0 losses, he did his part to giving bowlers a chance. When guy like Bumrah cannot even sniff a wicket under pressure, nobody can help the team.What can we say about Bhuvi the great in 2022 t20 semifinal trying to bowl wides to avoid bat with new ball.

 

If he is fit in 2027, he still would be the first name for Indian team.Does he have motivation to play till 2027 is the question.

 

Edited March 21, 2025 by putrevus

[Ultimate_Game]

2 hours ago, putrevus said:

 

He is single reason why India was relevant in all formats for a decade.If he had any help from his choking bowlers like Bumrah . He would have had few more ICC titles.

 

Even in 155/0 and 173/0 losses, he did his part to giving bowlers a chance. When guy like Bumrah cannot even sniff a wicket under pressure, nobody can help the team.What great world can we say about Bhuvi the great in 2022 t20 semifinal trying to bowl wides with new ball.

 

 

This guy's hilarious! Bringing down the only GOAT bowler we ever had in Bumrah, who should've won 3-4 ICC tourneys if not for choking batters led by the so called "King" 

 

So now Kohli kept India "relevant" by simply reaching knockouts and then fading. If that's the criteria you can probably send India A team and they make it to knockouts as well. In a sport with barely 3-4 strong teams, reaching the knockout is now "King" Kohli's superpower 

 

I guess it takes a real "King" to take India to knockouts by getting past likes of Pak, B'desh, WI, SL, Zim, Ireland etc. and making India "relevant" 

 

India's lost decade without an ICC trophy was all on Kohli who consistently choked during knockouts, especially the ODI format and WTCs, was a poor white-ball captain who selected top-heavy teams without any batting depth similar to RCB, made poor decisions like bowling on a patta against certified chokers Pak in 2017, and made poor team selections like dropping Shami and backing someone like Chahal. If Kohli wasn't around we easily end up with 2-3 more ICC trophies and wish BCCI had made Rohit captain instead of Kohli after Dhoni.