coffee_rules Posted March 24, 2025 Posted March 24, 2025 1 hour ago, Vicks57 said: That is the "dehati" mindset that he usually talks about. Your closeted mindset exactly 1 hour ago, Vicks57 said: @velu
coffee_rules Posted March 24, 2025 Posted March 24, 2025 2 hours ago, bsriharsha said: Erri pooka. I don't need to prove that I'm a Teluguite. Neither do I need a certificate from you on that as well. Let's be clear , I'm against delimitation as it gives more advantage to the impoverished, illiterate , idiotic states in UP and Bihar. And gives them no impetus to improve at all. And for all people who say that Bihar/up gives the manpower. Well , sure. Those states are basketcases which is the reason why people are shifting. I've got no problem in people shifting across country. That's their prerogative and I don't discriminate against that. The point is that a lot of people refuse to accept the reality that southern states get step mother treatment from the center. I really don't give a **** about language imposition which is a different thing from delimitation. I speak Hindi better than quite a lot of people from Bihar. Telugu is my mother tongue. And my English is quite simply put , passable. Delimitation is about proportional representation of states vs their population. Why should TN get 39 seats and Karnataka 28 ? It is not proportional to its population. Hence the correction needed.
mishra Posted March 24, 2025 Posted March 24, 2025 Actually there is another angle to delimitation. Thats is LAC zone states like Aruanchal Pradesh and Laddakh. Government is not as chewt as most people opposing it.
Mariyam Posted March 24, 2025 Posted March 24, 2025 (edited) 27 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: Delimitation is about proportional representation of states vs their population. Why should TN get 39 seats and Karnataka 28 ? It is not proportional to its population. Hence the correction needed. The people who oppose delimitation are of the opinion that those states who have managed to do well Re: Human Development Parameters and consequently population growth rates are being penalized for good behaviour. The States who have not managed to develop human capital and have a disproportionate share of the population growth are being given extra representation. Some parliamentarians are of the opinion that Seat/ District allocation should solely be according to Socio Economic and Historic Parameters of the place. That takes into account dialect and main occupation. In a country as dynamic as ours, we need to look at both Demographic and Socio-Economic factors. No easy route here. Edited March 24, 2025 by Mariyam Vicks57 1
mishra Posted March 24, 2025 Posted March 24, 2025 (edited) ^ Madam, Arguement like HDI or development is Shyte. Because it opens pandora box. Many will argue on basis of various factors like some may start arguing a person with double PHD should have more votes than illeterate. A Minister should have more votes than constituents. Or a lawyer or a doctor or a millionaire, or billionaire have more votes than normal villager. Point is, one person one vote is basic fundamental in democracy. Now if you represent one Lokasbaha Seat with 6 million voters and anoter Lokasabha Seat with less than half million voters then there is a problem . One can argue that seat distribution in places like Andaman nicobar island , North Eastern States, Laddkh can not be treated at par with rest of India and some consideration be given, but seat distribution in people from rest of states must be based on one person one vote principle Edited March 24, 2025 by mishra Muloghonto 1
Muloghonto Posted March 24, 2025 Posted March 24, 2025 25 minutes ago, Mariyam said: The people who oppose delimitation are of the opinion that those states who have managed to do well Re: Human Development Parameters and consequently population growth rates are being penalized for good behaviour. The States who have not managed to develop human capital and have a disproportionate share of the population growth are being given extra representation. Some parliamentarians are of the opinion that Seat/ District allocation should solely be according to Socio Economic and Historic Parameters of the place. That takes into account dialect and main occupation. In a country as dynamic as ours, we need to look at both Demographic and Socio-Economic factors. No easy route here. bolded part is irrelevant. fundamental parameter of democracy is, x number of people will elect 1 representative, be it state, panchayat or national elections. the place where its 10,000 votes for 1 candidate is less democratic than the place where 5000 votes = 1 candidate and equality demands that 10,000 votes = 2 candidates, else those 10,000 people literally have half as much voting right as the other 5000 people. therefore, opposing delimitation = supporting anti-democratic authoritarianism. socio-economics dont matter. you being rich or poor or lula or langraa doesnt make your choice for who should rule us any more special than mine. 1 person = 1 vote, set number of votes = elected candidates. thats the only democratic and fair way. looking at socio-economic factor = undemocratic = tyranny. period. mishra and coffee_rules 2
Muloghonto Posted March 24, 2025 Posted March 24, 2025 (edited) 43 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: Delimitation is about proportional representation of states vs their population. Why should TN get 39 seats and Karnataka 28 ? It is not proportional to its population. Hence the correction needed. i didnt realize that with delimitation we will have so many parlamentarians that we can go ahead with cutting manpower of indian army and just make a parliament battalion. PS: Kannadigas, the greatest indian civilization in the south and its greatest imperial power did get a total raw deal. wtf happened ? did half of karnataka go on vacation or try and civilize the tamils again when they did census or something ?? Edited March 24, 2025 by Muloghonto mishra and coffee_rules 2
coffee_rules Posted March 24, 2025 Posted March 24, 2025 28 minutes ago, Mariyam said: The people who oppose delimitation are of the opinion that those states who have managed to do well Re: Human Development Parameters and consequently population growth rates are being penalized for good behaviour. The States who have not managed to develop human capital and have a disproportionate share of the population growth are being given extra representation. Some parliamentarians are of the opinion that Seat/ District allocation should solely be according to Socio Economic and Historic Parameters of the place. That takes into account dialect and main occupation. In a country as dynamic as ours, we need to look at both Demographic and Socio-Economic factors. No easy route here. The reward for good behaviour is only if all start at the same level and get same investments. All states were not the same, especially the Bristish presidencies which Bristish favoured nore. They penalized North more because of the freedom and independence struggles were more in North than in the south Kings/Raj states developed theit states differently. After independce , whe the country was united, many Raj states didn't want to join the union, it was a people's mandate to unite. Some staes which were developed in the south got preferential tratement because it was farther away from the border, so all prestigious educational institutes and PSUs were established in MH/South . Lehru left Northawalwe to do kheti-badi. South developed more with natural resources of the north and east. Where was all the coal coming from for the south industries? When these states gave away natural resources for all of the country, whey didn't they refuse then? Jab lena tha sab le liye. Ab dene ke liye ro rahein hain. There is no such thing as socio-economic / HDI factors in delimitation. It was not distributed proportionally to begin with, with states like TN getting a unfairly higher seats. It needed correction after 75 years. mishra 1
Muloghonto Posted March 24, 2025 Posted March 24, 2025 (edited) 2 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: The reward for good behaviour is only if all start at the same level and get same investments. All states were not the same, especially the Bristish presidencies which Bristish favoured nore. They penalized North more because of the freedom and independence struggles were more in North than in the south Kings/Raj states developed theit states differently. After independce , whe the country was united, many Raj states didn't want to join the union, it was a people's mandate to unite. Some staes which were developed in the south got preferential tratement because it was farther away from the border, so all prestigious educational institutes and PSUs were established in MH/South . Lehru left Northawalwe to do kheti-badi. South developed more with natural resources of the north and east. Where was all the coal coming from for the south industries? When these states gave away natural resources for all of the country, whey didn't they refuse then? Jab lena tha sab le liye. Ab dene ke liye ro rahein hain. There is no such thing as socio-economic / HDI factors in delimitation. It was not distributed proportionally to begin with, with states like TN getting a unfairly higher seats. It needed correction after 75 years. reward for good behaviour cannot be tyranny, opression and anti-democracy of others. this is typical of the fascist anti-hinduvta ideologies and the opposition gang. You dont get to take MY rights and MY voting power away for something that i played no part in ( birth rate/total population of my region). That is definition of violation of human rights and i am surprised a lawyer is making this argument. Edited March 24, 2025 by Muloghonto mishra and coffee_rules 2
Muloghonto Posted March 24, 2025 Posted March 24, 2025 @coffee_rules there are only 4 possibilities on why you Kannadigas got shafted at original delimitation : 1. Half your people were in Tamil Nadu and Mallustan trying to civilize them again 2. Half your population went on vacation on the weekend of delimitation 3. You kannadigas probably had a woman leader at that time who refused to sleep with...err i mean 'recieve rose' from chacha nehru 4. Dradivian jadu-tona of beti-chode periyar. coffee_rules 1
Mariyam Posted March 24, 2025 Posted March 24, 2025 @mishra @coffee_rules @Muloghonto The views in my previous post re: Delimitation are basically from a book called "The Degeneration of India" by the former Chief Election Commissioner of India: T.N. Seshan. He has many pages re: Formation of Districts/Delimitation in India after the Linguistic organization of states. Approaches on further delimitation etc They are a part of the curriculum for anyone who wishes to specialize in Constitutional Law. I think he would know a thing or two about what a democracy is. @coffee_rules, Thane was delimited to Thane and Palghar districts solely on the basis of Socio-Economic reality. Agriculture heavy regions were separated from the Service sector/ Industrial regions and were then infused with central funds for making of SEZs. coffee_rules and Vicks57 2
coffee_rules Posted March 24, 2025 Posted March 24, 2025 15 minutes ago, Muloghonto said: i didnt realize that with delimitation we will have so many parlamentarians that we can go ahead with cutting manpower of indian army and just make a parliament battalion. PS: Kannadigas, the greatest indian civilization in the south and its greatest imperial power did get a total raw deal. wtf happened ? did half of karnataka go on vacation or try and civilize the tamils again when they did census or something ?? Look at how disproportionate the distribution was. Compare Kerala and Rajasthan. Kerala has never a great part of formation of India, not much representation in growth fields, just keot exporting manpower - nurses and grocers (kaka shops were all mallus). Kerala got 20 compared the Rajputana getting only 25!! Grossly unfair. There is no increase for Kerala. With UP getting 143, I changed my opinion about Yogi. He better be in UP to safeguard the 143 seats that controls the future of India as a nation! Bulldozer baba ki jai ho!! mishra and Muloghonto 2
Muloghonto Posted March 24, 2025 Posted March 24, 2025 Just now, Mariyam said: @mishra @coffee_rules @Muloghonto The views in my previous post re: Delimitation are basically from a book called "The Degeneration of India" by the former Chief Election Commissioner of India: T.N. Seshan. He has many pages re: Formation of Districts/Delimitation in India after the Linguistic organization of states. Approaches on further delimitation etc They are a part of the curriculum for anyone who wishes to specialize in Constitutional Law. I think he would know a thing or two about what a democracy is. @coffee_rules, Thane was delimited to Thane and Palghar districts solely on the basis of Socio-Economic reality. Agriculture heavy regions were separated from the Service sector/ Industrial regions and were then infused with central funds for making of SEZs. Dont care WHO wrote in support of tyranny and fascism and anti-democracy. Saying seshan knows a thing or two of democracy is appeal to authority fallacy - its not refuting the argument of WHY what he says is undemocratic fascism. I have underlined argument as to why opposing de-limitation is undemocratic fascism. You can counter it, but forget Seshan, name-dropping even God himself isnt gonna absolve the 'appeal to authority fallacy' stance of yours. mishra 1
Muloghonto Posted March 24, 2025 Posted March 24, 2025 3 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: Look at how disproportionate the distribution was. Compare Kerala and Rajasthan. Kerala has never a great part of formation of India, not much representation in growth fields, just keot exporting manpower - nurses and grocers (kaka shops were all mallus). Kerala got 20 compared the Rajputana getting only 25!! Grossly unfair. There is no increase for Kerala. With UP getting 143, I changed my opinion about Yogi. He better be in UP to safeguard the 143 seats that controls the future of India as a nation! Bulldozer baba ki jai ho!! i guess kerala and periyar sent their betis to recieve some roses from Chacha Nehru and you and Rajputs didnt.... PS: I knew you'd see the logic of 'Yogi must defend the fortress as the army goes out to battle' axiom i presented months ago :) coffee_rules 1
Mariyam Posted March 24, 2025 Posted March 24, 2025 @Muloghonto Strictly speaking, Karnataka is an oddity in Indian State after the linguistic re-organization. There are 3 distinct language ( as defined by the 8th Schedule of our Constitution) zones. Kannada: Most of central and non coastal Karnataka. Marathi areas: Belgaum and Northern Karnataka Konkani: The coastal belt Tulu: Mysore and thereabouts. Language of the Bunt community. Not in the 8th Schedule yet, but quite likely to be. mishra 1
coffee_rules Posted March 24, 2025 Posted March 24, 2025 3 minutes ago, Mariyam said: @mishra @coffee_rules @Muloghonto The views in my previous post re: Delimitation are basically from a book called "The Degeneration of India" by the former Chief Election Commissioner of India: T.N. Seshan. He has many pages re: Formation of Districts/Delimitation in India after the Linguistic organization of states. Approaches on further delimitation etc They are a part of the curriculum for anyone who wishes to specialize in Constitutional Law. I think he would know a thing or two about what a democracy is. @coffee_rules, Thane was delimited to Thane and Palghar districts solely on the basis of Socio-Economic reality. Agriculture heavy regions were separated from the Service sector/ Industrial regions and were then infused with central funds for making of SEZs. Just because of TN Seshan, I will not chage my opinion of basic logic and reasoning. Do you agree with his viewpoint for this opinion or because of his expert knowledge in Constitiional law? And TN Seshan joined Congress after his CEC role. mishra 1
Muloghonto Posted March 24, 2025 Posted March 24, 2025 Just now, Mariyam said: @Muloghonto Strictly speaking, Karnataka is an oddity in Indian State after the linguistic re-organization. There are 3 distinct language ( as defined by the 8th Schedule of our Constitution) zones. Kannada: Most of central and non coastal Karnataka. Marathi areas: Belgaum and Northern Karnataka Konkani: The coastal belt Tulu: Mysore and thereabouts. Language of the Bunt community. Not in the 8th Schedule yet, but quite likely to be. what the heck does how many languages exist in my state got to do with how many seats my state gets ?! More languages get less seats ? Well i am quadrilingual...i guess i get to vote only once in 20 years ?
Mariyam Posted March 24, 2025 Posted March 24, 2025 3 minutes ago, Muloghonto said: Dont care WHO wrote in support of tyranny and fascism and anti-democracy. Saying seshan knows a thing or two of democracy is appeal to authority fallacy - its not refuting the argument of WHY what he says is undemocratic fascism. I have underlined argument as to why opposing de-limitation is undemocratic fascism. You can counter it, but forget Seshan, name-dropping even God himself isnt gonna absolve the 'appeal to authority fallacy' stance of yours. Wait what? What is undemocratic fascism again? And why? How exactly are your rights being taken away? I seem to have missed that part.
Mariyam Posted March 24, 2025 Posted March 24, 2025 1 minute ago, Muloghonto said: what the heck does how many languages exist in my state got to do with how many seats my state gets ?! More languages get less seats ? Well i am quadrilingual...i guess i get to vote only once in 20 years ? Unrelated to the delimitation discussion. More like an FYI. Karnataka, good the proverbial long rope when the states of India were re-organised on the basis of Language.
Muloghonto Posted March 24, 2025 Posted March 24, 2025 Just now, Mariyam said: Wait what? What is undemocratic fascism again? And why? How exactly are your rights being taken away? I seem to have missed that part. unequal number of votes per seat = undemocratic fascism. me getting 1 in 10,000 chance to elect a candidate is my rights being taken away compared to yours who gets 1 in 5000 chance to influence election if you are southie. Ie, your vote matters more. Which is undemocratic and fascist. The whole idea that MY rights are subject to negotation for something I didnt do ( aka i dont get to have equal vote power as southie coz my people bred faster) is violation of MY rights to equal representation. There is no argument against this that isnt facist or authoritarian by definition....
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