Aurangzeb, Chhaava, Nagpur riots

[singhvivek141]

3 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Nah Indian history isn't for the faint hearted & our people are way too sensitive to be told the whole truth.  

 

We never had a spanish style revival or reconquista.  That's what you call an absolute resounding win of a civilization.

This is a 1000 year old trauma we are talking about.

It should be buried deep down & never spoken about again.

 

Chinese are scarred by a Century of humiliation & we can already multiply it by 10.  That's the impact we are talking about.

Timur's deed will give us a nationwide trauma throw in some Aibak and Bakhtiyar Khilji... People would start calling Aurangzeb as Sufi Saint. 

 

Only path is way forward.  Forget the past , learn from mistakes.  Adopt China model & find glory through your own hardwork.

 

 

If you forget the past, how you will learn from the mistakes.

 

Also, forgetting the past can't be selective for certain communities. Sanatan and its branches believe in forgiving...but the "non Sanatan" cults, their whole existence is to convert ?

 

Unless there are strict conversion to non-native religion and interfaith crime laws, nothing will change.

 

China is able to adopt hard hands coz it's a dictatorship, we are democracy where numbers rule and dictate which govt will exist.

[coffee_rules]

2 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

And there in lies the risks in more violence & more bloodshed.  This country cannot handle it yet.

I wish there was anything noteworthy to learn from the past but there isn't much.  Reasons dhoondo ge toh Prithviraj se le kar, Rana Sangha & even Rama Raya sabko blame karoge.

 

History always favors the victors not victims.  Hindus were the victims.  They had it coming just as Native Americans or Aboriginals had it coming.   Technology tactics and modern warfare... These are only things worth learning.   You can't win without modernization.  Our ancestors & country paid the ultimate price.

 

As Maulana Rizzu Symonds says... Ya toh win hai ya toh l*un hai.

Truer words were never spoken.

 

 

This is exactly the reason why Congress / Nehru / IG designed our history to make Hindus feel as losers and never form a strong country based on Dharmic values. The fear of hurting Muslims that they will revolt, bllodshed etc. This is 2025, everybody know what the future for India holds, every country has to reconcile with the past. After Aparthied lost, the first thing SA/Mandela did was to reconcile with the black discrimination and whites acknowledged their criminal history. Germany too after WWII, taught their children about the Holocaust and realized what a big mistake their country's legacy caused to the whole world. Japanese do know what war crimes their armies committed. They didn't brush their mistakes under the rug as if it never happened.

 

You, like Lehru think Indians are dehats and they will start fighting like rabid rugrats if we tell them what the Sultanate/Moghuls/ did to India that is Bharat. Instead we do a 180 and have roads named after Lodhi. Tughlaq, Aurangzeb in the capital of our country glorifying their misdeeds. Bhaktiyarpur is named after the one who burnt down nalanda. 

 

After the RJB decision, everybody was expecting to have riots with Muzlims losing a mosque. But, they move one, but now revolt over a movie. Shows, this is an organized riot, pre-planned.

 

If we don't learn from history, history will repeat itself. Hence, we have incidents like Kanhaiyaa lal, Kamlesh Tiwari STSJ incidents. Later on, when they duplicate their population, and demographies change, it will be even more difficult to change anything. It is already too late in areas like WB, Kerala, Nooh etc. Accepting the truth about Islamism/Iconoclasm will not diminish their faith, but it will be accepted more universally.

Edited March 20, 2025 by coffee_rules

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

If you forget the past, how you will learn from the mistakes.

 

Also, forgetting the past can't be selective for certain communities. Sanatan and its branches believe in forgiving...but the "non Sanatan" cults, their whole existence is to convert ?

 

Unless there are strict conversion to non-native religion and interfaith crime laws, nothing will change.

 

China is able to adopt hard hands coz it's a dictatorship, we are democracy where numbers rule and dictate which govt will exist.

By adopting China model means bide your time hide your strength... Famous quote by Deng Xiaoping.

First reach at that stage.

Only then you can enforce and dictate those laws without being hounded.

 

I made a point earlier in the thread why we can't completely go China route as the scale magnitude,  demography is extremely different.

Next best solution is obvious modernization through education & improving living standards of the country.

 

By forgetting the past I meant there is no rocket science in what happened.

Natives got defeated and enslaved for 1000 years coz they lacked technological and tactical smartness. First it was Turkish horse Archers of Ghurids... then Gunpowder and Cannons of Babur... Point was There is no point dwelling on being victims forever.

I mean what was going to happen otherwise??

 

Demographic change is far fetched ..

TFR of Muslims as it stands is at 2.36 vs 1.94 of Hindus.

Both are in free fall.

 

In the meantime bring laws based on Deporting Illegals from the country, keeping BD border on High alert & we are basically set already.

Edited March 20, 2025 by Lone Wolf

[Lone Wolf]

37 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

 

 

This is exactly the reason why Congress / Nehru / IG designed our history to make Hindus feel as losers and never form a strong country based on Dharmic values. The fear of hurting Muslims that they will revolt, bllodshed etc. This is 2025, everybody know what the future for India holds, every country has to reconcile with the past. After Aparthied lost, the first thing SA/Mandela did was to reconcile with the black discrimination and whites acknowledged their criminal history. Germany too after WWII, taught their children about the Holocaust and realized what a big mistake their country's legacy caused to the whole world. Japanese do know what war crimes their armies committed. They didn't brush their mistakes under the rug as if it never happened.

 

You, like Lehru think Indians are dehats and they will start fighting like rabid rugrats if we tell them what the Sultanate/Moghuls/ did to India that is Bharat. Instead we do a 180 and have roads named after Lodhi. Tughlaq, Aurangzeb in the capital of our country glorifying their misdeeds. Bhaktiyarpur is named after the one who burnt down nalanda. 

 

After the RJB decision, everybody was expecting to have riots with Muzlims losing a mosque. But, they move one, but now revolt over a movie. Shows, this is an organized riot, pre-planned.

 

If we don't learn from history, history will repeat itself. Hence, we have incidents like Kanhaiyaa lal, Kamlesh Tiwari STSJ incidents. Later on, when they duplicate their population, and demographies change, it will be even more difficult to change anything. It is already too late in areas like WB, Kerala, Nooh etc. Accepting the truth about Islamism/Iconoclasm will not diminish their faith, but it will be accepted more universally.

I get the emotions but we all know deep down it is impractical as of now.

 

It is an imperfect republic for a reason.  Dehat is the ultimate reality.  We see it daily. 

RJB was years long I mean centuries long struggle.  It took its sweet time as do all things.

 

Permanent solution to this problem always lied in failure of Marathas to do what Spanish Reconquistas managed to did.   Their failure to set up credible alliances, animosity with Rajputs, unable to gauge influence of rising Sikh power in the North &  later on diverting from Core Hindutva ideology and nation building , lack of coordination with the masses led to their downfall.

Masses never supported them nor Mughals in 1857.   I mean trust level was all time low level

 

In 1760...They had the opportunity & resources and folks to do what Spanish Reconquistas did in Spain.  But they faltered and we are stuck with this.  Imagine Sivaji having all that at his disposal in 1760.  He would go for Hindavi Swarajya whatever it takes.

 

Edited March 20, 2025 by Lone Wolf

[Teengunalagaan]

50 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

 

 

This is exactly the reason why Congress / Nehru / IG designed our history to make Hindus feel as losers and never form a strong country based on Dharmic values. The fear of hurting Muslims that they will revolt, bllodshed etc. This is 2025, everybody know what the future for India holds, every country has to reconcile with the past. After Aparthied lost, the first thing SA/Mandela did was to reconcile with the black discrimination and whites acknowledged their criminal history. Germany too after WWII, taught their children about the Holocaust and realized what a big mistake their country's legacy caused to the whole world. Japanese do know what war crimes their armies committed. They didn't brush their mistakes under the rug as if it never happened.

 

You, like Lehru think Indians are dehats and they will start fighting like rabid rugrats if we tell them what the Sultanate/Moghuls/ did to India that is Bharat. Instead we do a 180 and have roads named after Lodhi. Tughlaq, Aurangzeb in the capital of our country glorifying their misdeeds. Bhaktiyarpur is named after the one who burnt down nalanda. 

 

After the RJB decision, everybody was expecting to have riots with Muzlims losing a mosque. But, they move one, but now revolt over a movie. Shows, this is an organized riot, pre-planned.

 

If we don't learn from history, history will repeat itself. Hence, we have incidents like Kanhaiyaa lal, Kamlesh Tiwari STSJ incidents. Later on, when they duplicate their population, and demographies change, it will be even more difficult to change anything. It is already too late in areas like WB, Kerala, Nooh etc. Accepting the truth about Islamism/Iconoclasm will not diminish their faith, but it will be accepted more universally.

TBH the only two states where sh*t like this won't happen is Gujarat and UP now because of Yogi, rest is a free for all..

 

Tell if any other state in India where this will have repercussions.. I just don't think there is..

Edited March 20, 2025 by Teengunalagaan

[mishra]

37 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

I get the emotions but we all know deep down it is impractical as of now.

 

It is an imperfect republic for a reason.  Dehat is the ultimate reality.  We see it daily. 

RJB was years long I mean centuries long struggle.  It took its sweet time as do all things.

 

Permanent solution to this problem always lied in failure of Marathas to do what Spanish Reconquistas managed to did.   Their failure to set up credible alliances, animosity with Rajputs, unable to gauge influence of rising Sikh power in the North &  later on diverting from Core Hindutva ideology and nation building , lack of coordination with the masses led to their downfall.

Masses never supported them nor Mughals in 1857.   I mean trust level was all time low level

 

In 1760...They had the opportunity & resources and folks to do what Spanish Reconquistas did in Spain.  But they faltered and we are stuck with this.  Imagine Sivaji having all that at his disposal in 1760.  He would go for Hindavi Swarajya whatever it takes.

 

Blame Marathas for NOT delivering extreme like Spanish Reconquest, But dont have balls to speak and ask for right history in schools of modern India

Edited March 20, 2025 by mishra

[Lone Wolf]

Just now, mishra said:

Blame Marathas for NOT delivering extreme like Spanish Reconquest, But dont have balls to speak and ask for right history in modern India

Obviously if India have resources and geopolitical pull required I would like us to finish the work that was started.

Marathas had that in 1760.  No excuses there..

 

I can understand why GoI decided to put NRC in cold storage even though I wanted them to go through with it.  

[mishra]

^ Demand for it. Not from Government but build consesus/discussions in Society. Government will listen

Edited March 20, 2025 by mishra

[Muloghonto]

15 minutes ago, mishra said:

Blame Marathas for NOT delivering extreme like Spanish Reconquest, But dont have balls to speak and ask for right history in schools of modern India

 

The only thing I blame Marathas for, is living in 1700s , competing with a foreign centralized imperial power from across the globe but instead chose dehati 4000 year old confederate model, that lead to prompt infighting and fracture. 

[velu]

Funny thing is Marathas restored Mughal throne ( shah Alam ii ) after the death of Aurangzeb

[coffee_rules]

1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said:

I get the emotions but we all know deep down it is impractical as of now.

 

It is an imperfect republic for a reason.  Dehat is the ultimate reality.  We see it daily. 

RJB was years long I mean centuries long struggle.  It took its sweet time as do all things.

 

Permanent solution to this problem always lied in failure of Marathas to do what Spanish Reconquistas managed to did.   Their failure to set up credible alliances, animosity with Rajputs, unable to gauge influence of rising Sikh power in the North &  later on diverting from Core Hindutva ideology and nation building , lack of coordination with the masses led to their downfall.

Masses never supported them nor Mughals in 1857.   I mean trust level was all time low level

 

In 1760...They had the opportunity & resources and folks to do what Spanish Reconquistas did in Spain.  But they faltered and we are stuck with this.  Imagine Sivaji having all that at his disposal in 1760.  He would go for Hindavi Swarajya whatever it takes.

 

Marathas had driven out Abdali's son (another Timur)  from Punjab  along with Sikhs' help, but put in a stooge Adina beg in control of Lahore. They did the same in Delhi after they got control of it from Moghuls and instated a puppet regime. They should have moved from Deccan to Delhi and should have been the sole control of India, instead of controling from Deccan using puppet kins (2000 year old model of Hindu Raj).  The main impact was declining Moghul rulers and Nawab of Awadh - Shuja-Ud-Daula was insprired by the armies of Islam and even got a Hindu King to side with them and the Afghans. Total betrayal of Indians spilit on religious lines. They got blin-sided and lost a lot of army. At 1760, Marathas had the whole control of the sub-continent from Deccan, South and even till Afghanistan. Our dream of Akhand Bharat fot shattered in 1761. 

 

I agree that the war of 1857 was nothing but a dream of getting Moghul rule emptied by Aurangzeb , and not much for Hindus. Hence, Sikhs and Aam junta never supported them. Glad we lost! 

[randomGuy]

8 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Marathas had driven out Abdali's son (another Timur)  from Punjab  along with Sikhs' help, but put in a stooge Adina beg in control of Lahore. They did the same in Delhi after they got control of it from Moghuls and instated a puppet regime. They should have moved from Deccan to Delhi and should have been the sole control of India, instead of controling from Deccan using puppet kins (2000 year old model of Hindu Raj).  The main impact was declining Moghul rulers and Nawab of Awadh - Shuja-Ud-Daula was insprired by the armies of Islam and even got a Hindu King to side with them and the Afghans. Total betrayal of Indians spilit on religious lines. They got blin-sided and lost a lot of army. At 1760, Marathas had the whole control of the sub-continent from Deccan, South and even till Afghanistan. Our dream of Akhand Bharat fot shattered in 1761. 

 

I agree that the war of 1857 was nothing but a dream of getting Moghul rule emptied by Aurangzeb , and not much for Hindus. Hence, Sikhs and Aam junta never supported them. Glad we lost! 

Maratha were brave but not strategic. They should have allied with Sikhs and jats. North of rajasthan, these 2 were the dominant powers. Sikh+Jat+Maratha could have ruled entire akhand bharat with ease. Afghans were afraid of Sikhs. Sikhs used to beat them quite hard.

Edited March 20, 2025 by randomGuy

[ravishingravi]

I will def donate to her channel. 

 

 

[Gollum]

Aftermath of Talikota was the most brutal and painful for our people. As bad as they were, Mughals were still saints compared to the barbaric Delhi Sultans (incl. Bakhtiyar and Madurai Sultanate) and Deccan Sultans. 

[Lone Wolf]

15 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Aftermath of Talikota was the most brutal and painful for our people. As bad as they were, Mughals were still saints compared to the barbaric Delhi Sultans (incl. Bakhtiyar and Madurai Sultanate) and Deccan Sultans. 

Malik Kafur used to chop off newborn babies head during his campaigns in the South... 

Ibn batutta has written some spine chilling stuff in his memoirs.

South India walo ko generational trauma ho jayega padh kar 

Edited March 22, 2025 by Lone Wolf

[randomGuy]

9 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Malik Kafur used to chop off newborn babies head during his campaigns in the South... 

Ibn batutta has written some spine chilling stuff in his memoirs.

South India walo ko generational trauma ho jayega padh kar 

Just read Malik kafur was a Hindu born in Gujarat. Later enslaved and converted to Islam.

[Lone Wolf]

49 minutes ago, randomGuy said:

Just read Malik kafur was a Hindu born in Gujarat. Later enslaved and converted to Islam.

Actually not much is known about his initial birthplace.  He was captured by Khilji as a Eunuch in Gujarat was in service of Shah of Khambat.

There are claims that he was a Maratha born.  Don't know for sure.

 

Very very underrated as a military tactician.  Was an out and out psycho but a brilliant military mind.  His achievements mogs any other Mughal general that came after him.

 

 

 

 

[coffee_rules]

1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said:

Actually not much is known about his initial birthplace.  He was captured by Khilji as a Eunuch in Gujarat was in service of Shah of Khambat.

There are claims that he was a Maratha born.  Don't know for sure.

 

Very very underrated as a military tactician.  Was an out and out psycho but a brilliant military mind.  His achievements mogs any other Mughal general that came after him.

 

 

 

 

He even raided South India and has gone as far as Madurai demolishing temples of Hoysala and Pandya kingdoms. Famous being Halebidu in Karnataka 

Edited March 22, 2025 by coffee_rules

[Lone Wolf]

52 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

He even raided South India and has gone as far as Madurai demolishing temples of Hoysala and Pandya kingdoms. Famous being Halebidu in Karnataka 

Yep only other instance where a force ventured that Deep into the South was when Mauryan King Bindusara reached as far as modern day Palani town of Tamil Nadu before getting repulsed by some Pandyan King..  that was 1000 years ago before Kafur.

Edited March 22, 2025 by Lone Wolf