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Operation sindoor

Trichromatic

By Trichromatic
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G_B_ Grand Master

G_B_

Posted
Posted

It also should be noted.

 

The manpower costs of the indian armed forces are around 70% of the 78 billion usd total budget. 

 

Thiz results in 15 to 20 billion odd for purchases. Desi or foreign.

 

Manpower costs for usa (40%), china and pak (60% + armed forces have other income sources) are much lower as % of total budget.

 

The biggest reform indian armed forced can do is reduce manpower and focus on equipment. 

 

 

singhvivek141 Grand Master

singhvivek141

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, G_B_ said:

It also should be noted.

 

The manpower costs of the indian armed forces are around 70% of the 78 billion usd total budget. 

 

Thiz results in 15 to 20 billion odd for purchases. Desi or foreign.

 

Manpower costs for usa (40%), china and pak (60% + armed forces have other income sources) are much lower as % of total budget.

 

The biggest reform indian armed forced can do is reduce manpower and focus on equipment. 

 

IMO, we shouldn't do that.

 

We have enemies across Pak, China & Bangladesh...while the Myanmar/Nepal border arebn a direct threat, there too we can have extremists group infiltrating.

 

We actually need to up our defence budget...currently it's around 1.5% of GDP, it shoukd be bumped to 2.5%. This will give fatter purse to bring in new equipments without compromising on resource count.

 

As the threats galore, we may need to expand our Naval presence in Nicobar, Lakshadweep and in Mauritius. Plus, increase in the workforce of CISF & BSF to guard the industries, airports, stations and Border areas. This all will require more resources...IMO we still lack around ~35000 CRPF and ~25000 CISF personnela.

G_B_ Grand Master

G_B_

Posted
Posted

I think you will find if you up the budget then armed forces will demand more pension+ salary. Its a black hole.

 

India need a 600k highly trained army with 100k navy and armed forces.

 

Drdo budget is 5% of defence budget. In this amount they are expected to produce all sort of things from aip to nuclear missiles. Tie ups have helped, which is why you see green shoots.

 

 

 

 

Lone Wolf Grand Master

Lone Wolf

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

My simple logic these days is....

 

1. Buy few squadrons of Su57, equip them with long range BVR missiles R37 or something with Russia. I heard that AL51 variant is where India is interested in, but better to go with 2/3 squadrons now and remaining 4/5 once AL51 variant is ready. Drop 114 Rafale MRFA entirely. Su57 will help us stay relevant for next 8-10 years.

 

2. Focus on Kaveri Engine, its success will remove a major blockade. Even if takes few years, dont deviate from the same. Make a mission to couple Tejas mk2 with Kaveri (and one squadron atleast with Tejas mk1a). Target 2027 for Kaveri and 2028 for mk2.

 

3. Work with whatever Tejas mk1a is ready. Just integrate with Astra mk2 and then handover to IAF. Focus on Astra mk3 and integrate it with Tejas mk2. Make target for Astra mk2 by 2026 end, Gandiv by 2028.

 

4. Let AMCA run in the background with Safran. No news whatsoever Target the first flight by 2030, active trials by 2033 and induction by 2035.

 

5. Launch Ghatak UCAV by 2028...induct atleast 8-10 squadrons of Ghatak and make the MUM-T with Tejas variants (Target 2030)..Keep the Ghatak variant in NE around China borders where they can take off with minimum runways.

 

6. Include Ex Airforce chiefs as the project managers in HAL, divide the HAL into sub entities for fighter jets, engines, helicopters, trainer jets and UCAV's. Make Bengaluru/Nashik as the final assembly and integration unit.

 

Govt. 

With what happened with Tejas dead sure that AMCA won't come before 2038 at least.

 

Ghatak in 2030 looks certain.

 

I am on fence with 114 Rafale.. as we do need numbers in 4.5 gen like other countries.   Safran deal is also hinged upon that huge order.

 

Rather than Su57E.. we should lobby for newer Su57M variant off the shelf  3 squadrons.  

IndianRenegade Grand Master

IndianRenegade

Posted
Posted
On 11/9/2025 at 6:49 AM, G_B_ said:

 

Whats the point of putting pics of random brazillian troops (brazil gas 359k army but ordered around 50k mku gear) and clearly an old indian army pic?

 

 

lol

 

The soilder in the pic is wearing the new Indian camo that got unvieled in Jan 2022, probably not even widely adopted till 2023. But even in the best case scenario the pic isn't 3 yrs old. The siutation is similar now most sporting fibre glass helmets with an abomination in the name of utility vest. The ICE folks rounding up ordinary ppl in US have better gear, so does most police in some rural counties in US

 

https://x.com/westerncomd_IA/status/1987354053509325112/photo/2

https://x.com/westerncomd_IA/status/1986791640254890260/photo/3

 

Everything is 5 yrs out in Indian military, whats the plan to match AIM-120? in 5 yrs we will have rafale with meteor? oops... no worries in another 5 years we will gandiva for PL-15. Because the terrorist, P@kis & china will wait untill you close out all your procurement before attacking you? 

 

But return 12.5k crores back to govt. while complaining we don't have enough defense budget. how many men could have been kitted with that kind of money?

 

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/union-budget-2025-defence-ministry-procurement-delay-return-capital-outlay-army-2673480-2025-02-02

 

Then wait for skimirmishes buy expensive western stuff at high price in the name of emergency procuement! it should be a matter of shame that in the year 2025 that what should be basic protective gear isn't available to troops & will take years. 

 

kepler37b Grand Master

kepler37b

Posted
Posted (edited)

This Modi govt is  over estimating the engineering capabilities of HAL and DRDO. Time for them to see the reality and switch to high precision weapons like aircraft to be procured from foreign firms.

 

Small stuff like guns and drones can be made by our people. But not aircraft. Multiple hurdles to be crossed.

Edited by kepler37b
Suhaan Grand Master

Suhaan

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, kepler37b said:

The question is: does HAL have man power and organizational culture to understand and manufacture these designs?

Ever heard of GTRE?

singhvivek141 Grand Master

singhvivek141

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, kepler37b said:

That is DRDO. I am speaking of HAL. Also, where is the Kaveri engine?

GTRE is the one working on Kaveri as well.

HAL's responsibility is to validate the thrust and do the assembly into the aircraft shell...which they can do.

 

HAL Koraput has been producing/assembling the AL31 engines...while it has more than 50% of indigenous products...Russia still has control on the key components.

 

Kaveri with afterburner is still short of required thrust needed to power Tejas...hence its w/o afterburner engine will be used for UCAVs

Edited by singhvivek141
Suhaan Grand Master

Suhaan

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, kepler37b said:

That is DRDO. I am speaking of HAL. Also, where is the Kaveri engine?

Kaveri engine development program needed funds in the range which it never got still they have developed an engine with 73kN with AB,

Not feasible with current Tejas requirement which has reasonable power thirsty avionics

Kaveri dry with 49.2kN is chosen for Ghatak 

 

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