Does Shubman Gill averaging only 35 in test deserves captaincy?

[rkt.india]

3 minutes ago, Serpico said:

he is in top 5. but it is a low bar anyway 

 

 

 

Pant is a wk/batsman. He plays his game. Among batsmen only Jaiswal has distinctively higher average than Gill. 

[zen]

54 minutes ago, Serpico said:

he is in top 5. but it is a low bar anyway 

 

 

 

Hasn’t Gill played more overseas than some of the others? For example I don’t recall S Iyer playing in Aus? While Jadeja is batting at his best recently if I am not wrong (Gill has likely not reached his peak in this format yet).
 

Despite that #3 are all in the 35 range. 
 

That shows the folly of mainly relying on career averages.
 

PS to know if the bar is low or how low it is, we also have to see averages of batsmen from the other teams as well in these games.

 

PPS stats also don’t account for the latest games!

Edited Friday at 08:52 AM by zen

[crictime]

35 minutes ago, Serpico said:

he is in top 5. but it is a low bar anyway 

 

 

 

Such a sorry state for Indian batting. A wicket keeper is second best batsman, scoring more than all specialist batsmen except one.

 

In fact there are two multi skilled players, that too in the filtered top 5. Rishabh Pant the keeper and Jadeja who is primarily a bowler.

[express bowling]

54 minutes ago, Serpico said:

he is in top 5. but it is a low bar anyway 

 

 

 

 

Your stats are till 31st Jan.

 

Include till 3rd July and Gill will be in the top 3.

 

 

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Avehttp://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/blackArrowDown.gif	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
RR Pant	2020-2025	20	34	3	1679	146	54.16	2085	80.52	5	9	1	191	47	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
YBK Jaiswal	2023-2025	18	33	2	1615	214*	52.09	2269	71.17	4	9	2	196	36	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Shubman Gill	2020-2025	34	62	5	2317	269	40.64	3789	61.15	7	7	5	260	35	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
KL Rahul	2022-2025	12	21	2	714	137	37.57	1252	57.02	2	3	0	89	8	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
RA Jadeja	2020-2025	23	34	3	1145	112	36.93	2371	48.29	2	7	3	106	16	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
SS Iyer	2021-2024	11	19	2	609	105	35.82	1029	59.18	1	3	2	71	11	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
RG Sharma	2021-2024	25	45	2	1453	161	33.79	2502	58.07	4	5	2	176	26	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
CA Pujara	2020-2023	16	29	1	923	102*	32.96	2402	38.42	1	7	2	110	2	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
AM Rahane	2020-2023	12	20	1	587	112	30.89	1227	47.84	1	2	1	67	3	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
V Kohli	2021-2025	23	40	2	1160	186	30.52	2267	51.16	2	4	3	115	4	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
R Ashwin	2020-2024	26	38	2	848	113

 

 

Edited Friday at 08:50 AM by express bowling

[Serpico]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

Your stats are till 31st Jan.

 

Include till 3rd July and Gill will be in the top 3.

 

 

Batting | Bowling | Fielding | All-round | Partnership | Team | Umpire and referee | Aggregate/overall

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Primary team India http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif

Involving the player Shubman Gill (IND) http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 500 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif

Ordered by batting average (descending)

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Showing 1 - 11 of 11

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Avehttp://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/blackArrowDown.gif	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
RR Pant	2020-2025	20	34	3	1679	146	54.16	2085	80.52	5	9	1	191	47	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
YBK Jaiswal	2023-2025	18	33	2	1615	214*	52.09	2269	71.17	4	9	2	196	36	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Shubman Gill	2020-2025	34	62	5	2317	269	40.64	3789	61.15	7	7	5	260	35	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
KL Rahul	2022-2025	12	21	2	714	137	37.57	1252	57.02	2	3	0	89	8	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
RA Jadeja	2020-2025	23	34	3	1145	112	36.93	2371	48.29	2	7	3	106	16	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
SS Iyer	2021-2024	11	19	2	609	105	35.82	1029	59.18	1	3	2	71	11	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
RG Sharma	2021-2024	25	45	2	1453	161	33.79	2502	58.07	4	5	2	176	26	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
CA Pujara	2020-2023	16	29	1	923	102*	32.96	2402	38.42	1	7	2	110	2	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
AM Rahane	2020-2023	12	20	1	587	112	30.89	1227	47.84	1	2	1	67	3	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
V Kohli	2021-2025	23	40	2	1160	186	30.52	2267	51.16	2	4	3	115	4	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
R Ashwin	2020-2024	26	38	2	848	113

 

 

the discussion was about whether Gill was performing good enough before becoming the captain. Obviously, he has been immense in this series

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, Serpico said:

the discussion was about whether Gill was performing good enough before becoming the captain. Obviously, he has been immense in this series

 

Yes but the post by @zen that you quoted was discussing all tests involving Gill till now .. and I know that because he replied to a post of mine about Gill's performance till date.

[crictime]

Asides the batting average being discussed , how has he been as a captain in the two tests so far?

 

Playing 11 selection, field setting, bowling changes, motivating fielders etc... how good has he been in captaincy role so far in limited opportunity that he has got as a leader?

 

 

[Frustrated]

No

[Frustrated]

1 hour ago, crictime said:

Asides the batting average being discussed , how has he been as a captain in the two tests so far?

 

Playing 11 selection, field setting, bowling changes, motivating fielders etc... how good has he been in captaincy role so far in limited opportunity that he has got as a leader?

 

 

Absolute sh!t

[crictime]

If wickets are flat like this in remaining tests of the series, his average will be near 45.

 

Runs asides, his declaratiom will be crucial.  India will want to level up the series. How much time will he give for bowlers to bowl England out. Already India are trailing 0-1.

[zen]

On 7/4/2025 at 4:09 PM, express bowling said:

 

Yes but the post by @zen that you quoted was discussing all tests involving Gill till now .. and I know that because he replied to a post of mine about Gill's performance till date.

161 now … reminds me of S Waugh, M Taylor, G Smith, etc., in Eng!

[crictime]

As of now Shubman's batting average is 42.72. This number looks much better than it was 2 tests back.

 

Scoring 430 runs needs stamina, fitness, a specialist batter, temperament and determination. He has used those qualities to score 430 across the two innings.  Well done but the runs should come even on normal or tougher wickets. Hope they will.

 

The most patta wickets Indian batsmen have played on in England. No Jimmy anderson, no Stuart Broad. No Graeme Swann. Two all rounders in Brydon Carse and Ben Stokes doing lot of bowling. Then Joe Root and Harry Brook bowling a lot as well. The quality of this bowlers is nowhere near what has been traditionally seen in England. Still it does needs some skills to score these many. This wickets have saved the career of low averaging batsmen like Shubman Gill, KL Rahul. Even Karun Nair who is struggling has scored in 20's. England batsmen have also boosted their batting averages. 

 

 

[Trichromatic]

49 minutes ago, crictime said:

As of now Shubman's batting average is 42.72. This number looks much better than it was 2 tests back.

 

Scoring 430 runs needs stamina, fitness, a specialist batter, temperament and determination. He has used those qualities to score 430 across the two innings.  Well done but the runs should come even on normal or tougher wickets. Hope they will.

 

The most patta wickets Indian batsmen have played on in England. No Jimmy anderson, no Stuart Broad. No Graeme Swann. Two all rounders in Brydon Carse and Ben Stokes doing lot of bowling. Then Joe Root and Harry Brook bowling a lot as well. The quality of this bowlers is nowhere near what has been traditionally seen in England. Still it does needs some skills to score these many. This wickets have saved the career of low averaging batsmen like Shubman Gill, KL Rahul. Even Karun Nair who is struggling has scored in 20's. England batsmen have also boosted their batting averages. 

 

 

No Botham either.

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, crictime said:

As of now Shubman's batting average is 42.72. This number looks much better than it was 2 tests back.

 

Scoring 430 runs needs stamina, fitness, a specialist batter, temperament and determination. He has used those qualities to score 430 across the two innings.  Well done but the runs should come even on normal or tougher wickets. Hope they will.

 

The most patta wickets Indian batsmen have played on in England. No Jimmy anderson, no Stuart Broad. No Graeme Swann. Two all rounders in Brydon Carse and Ben Stokes doing lot of bowling. Then Joe Root and Harry Brook bowling a lot as well. The quality of this bowlers is nowhere near what has been traditionally seen in England. Still it does needs some skills to score these many. This wickets have saved the career of low averaging batsmen like Shubman Gill, KL Rahul. Even Karun Nair who is struggling has scored in 20's. England batsmen have also boosted their batting averages. 

 

 

 

 

Stokes actually bowled quiet good. He was the one who played crucial role in helping England win the 5th test. Carse actually bowled well. Took a 10fer in NZ. Atkinson has insane bowling average. But Tongue did his job with mopping up tail. Compare with Indian bowling line up. Apart from Siraj it is a completely rookie seamer line up. England batting is monsterous in these conditions. World no.1 batsman, world no.2 batsman in their side. Yet our bowlers have outbowled them. So cerdit to Subhman gill.

[crictime]

4 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

 

Stokes actually bowled quiet good. He was the one who played crucial role in helping England win the 5th test. Carse actually bowled well. Took a 10fer in NZ. Atkinson has insane bowling average. But Tongue did his job with mopping up tail. Compare with Indian bowling line up. Apart from Siraj it is a completely rookie seamer line up. England batting is monsterous in these conditions. World no.1 batsman, world no.2 batsman in their side. Yet our bowlers have outbowled them. So cerdit to Subhman gill.

I did give him credit for scoring on this patta. Just that I dont rate him as a quality test cricketer yet. Maybe I will after a couple of years later if he scores good consistently.   But many better innings have been played in tough conditions against much better bowling attacks.

 

Inconsistency has been his biggest problem and the reason why his average is not upto the mark even after so many tests.

[vvvslaxman]

26 minutes ago, crictime said:

I did give him credit for scoring on this patta. Just that I dont rate him as a quality test cricketer yet. Maybe I will after a couple of years later if he scores good consistently.   But many better innings have been played in tough conditions against much better bowling attacks.

 

Inconsistency has been his biggest problem and the reason why his average is not upto the mark even after so many tests.

I think since he assumed captaincy for GT he has been scoring consistently.  Second thing is  he probably was not suitable to open the innings. Laxman was having a below average career until he got  a settled batting spot.That was about 4 years. After 2000 Laxman average was 50 i believe. Before that it was very poor.  There is a good chance Gill could have failed here had he opened the innings or batted at 3.  He started showing more responsibility during the England visit to India.

[crictime]

6 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

I think since he assumed captaincy for GT he has been scoring consistently.  Second thing is  he probably was not suitable to open the innings. Laxman was having a below average career until he got  a settled batting spot.That was about 4 years. After 2000 Laxman average was 50 i believe. Before that it was very poor.  There is a good chance Gill could have failed here had he opened the innings or batted at 3.  He started showing more responsibility during the England visit to India.

True. VVS struggled as opener, got dropped , scored 1000 plus runs im Ranji season and got back. Rest is history.

 

Opening is a very tough job. A reaso why I feel it is great that we have Yashasvi Jaiswal who averages 52. The best test batsman in India right now.

 

Hope Gill moving away from the top order works well for him. But then we need a capable No 3 bat.

 

 

[rkt.india]

14 minutes ago, crictime said:

True. VVS struggled as opener, got dropped , scored 1000 plus runs im Ranji season and got back. Rest is history.

 

Opening is a very tough job. A reaso why I feel it is great that we have Yashasvi Jaiswal who averages 52. The best test batsman in India right now.

 

Hope Gill moving away from the top order works well for him. But then we need a capable No 3 bat.

 

 

In last 5 years only two batsmen averaged over 40, Jaiswal and pant. 

[crictime]

5 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

In last 5 years only two batsmen averaged over 40, Jaiswal and pant. 

Jaiswal 52.86

.

.

Rishabh Pant 44.44 .

 

That's a sorry state for Indian specialist batsmen. 

 

 

[crictime]

Not only did Shubman Gill improve his average in 2 tests, he also improved his win loss ratio to 50 %. Good for an away series this far.