What will be your 4 man pace attack for Test 2, with Bumrah likely to rest

[express bowling]

13 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

It seems we are doing akkad bakkad bambee boo with the bowlers...hoping someone clicks.

 

 

I am not expecting anyone to perform on this tour except Bumrah. 

 

Just a question of minimizing damage.

 

Bumrah and Shami both played 25 to 28 FC matches before test debut.

 

We don't have any new quick pacer who has done this. Siraj is a big disappointment this way as he had done this and is still spraying the ball.

 

Among our  younger accurate pacers, who are our 2 quickest  pacers with sufficient FC experience  ?  We need to find them. 

[singhvivek141]

8 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

I am not expecting anyone to perform on this tour except Bumrah. 

 

Just a question of minimizing damage.

 

Bumrah and Shami both played 25 to 28 FC matches before test debut.

 

We don't have any new quick pacer who has done this. Siraj is a big disappointment this way as he had done this and is still spraying the ball.

 

Among our  younger accurate pacers, who are our 2 quickest  pacers with sufficient FC experience  ?  We need to find them. 

Kuldeep Sen has played 22 FC.

Harshit is around 15

Akashdeep has around 40

Arshdeep has around 25

 

 

[NameGoesHere]

Bowlers hunt in packs so I’d select tukka, phenkoo, tulla and trundle.  For all the choice we’ve got 

[Sooda]

The quickest turn around is between test 2 and 3 , 4 days. Makes sense for Bumrah to sit that out. He should be able to play the rest ideally, four out of five 

[nitinbwj]

Huge gap between first and second. Test. Bumrah should play. It's a no brainer. You want 30 days gap between Bumrah's matches ? If Bumrah skips,2-0 

[adi B]

4 hours ago, Lord said:

Harshit

Akashdeep

Arshdeep

Reddy

This.

This attack has more variety and not 1 dimensional like the current one,  also Kuldeep has to play !

Bumrah won't be rested because we'll have a 8 day gap in between the tests I think 

[coffee_rules]

I won’t pick, but reserve the right to mock at every post after we lose the second test

[sandeep]

7 hours ago, express bowling said:

With Bumrah likely to rest, who would you play ?  

 

All our other 3 pacers have looked poor in Test 1. Looking tired too. 

 

Options available ... Prasidh, Harshit, Siraj, Arshdeep, Akashdeep, Nitish, Shardul 

 

My choice ....  Rest all the tired and non-performing pacers. This is not a knee jerk reaction but an attempt to keep the mediocre pacers fresh atleast by rotating them.

 

Play ....

 

Arshdeep .. swing bowler 

Harshit .. fast bounce bowler 

Akashdeep .. Workhorse

Nitish .. Allrounder 4th pacer 

 

Not saying they will do any better. But atleast keep the pacers fresh by rotating them.

 

Bumrah will be back in test 3 ....

 

Siraj or Prasidh may be back in Test 3 replacing the pacers who underperform. 

 

This maybe modified a bit based on Innings 2.

 

 

 

Need to see the weather forecast once we get closer to T2D1.  

 

Harshit for Prasidh is kinda like for like.  I'm dearly hoping Arshdeep emulates Bhuvi's excellent series in England, at least with the ball, or comes close to it.  Akashdeep is a good spare tyre for Siraj - like you said workhorse.  Nitish.... if fully fit, I dunno. Not really sold on either Nitish or Shardul at this point, to be honest. But if Top6-7 are batting decent for India, I'd rather gamble and get Kuldeep in. Again, weather dependent call.

[vvvslaxman]

Let us play a completely new batch in the next test. It will be a shoot out. Then we will pick the best from that list.

[The Realist]

Gill should roll his arm over like Dhoni did on a previous Eng tour.

 

With captaincy comes responsibility.

 

Failing that send a SOS to Ishant Sharma.

[Sooda]

10 hours ago, nitinbwj said:

Huge gap between first and second. Test. Bumrah should play. It's a no brainer. You want 30 days gap between Bumrah's matches ? If Bumrah skips,2-0 

 

Yeah 8 days , more than enough time. 

[Sooda]

10 hours ago, nitinbwj said:

Huge gap between first and second. Test. Bumrah should play. It's a no brainer. You want 30 days gap between Bumrah's matches ? If Bumrah skips,2-0 

 

Yeah 8 days , more than enough time. 

[lemsip]

10 minutes ago, Sooda said:

 

Yeah 8 days , more than enough time. 

It depends on how many overs he has to bowl in the second innings. If he ends up bowling 25 plus overs, I suspect he will miss the second test.

If he doesn't play I suspect India has to bring in Kuldeep as most of the pace bowling options are inconsistent at best, leak runs and lack penetration. I'd just pick the 3 who can bowl a controlled line consistently. 

It is easier to say who should not play - No Thakur for sure. Then they can just draw any 3 names out of a hat. Any three of Siraj, Prasidh, Akashdeep, Arshdeep, Harshit. Realistically they are all likely to suck. The wickets will probably need to come from Kuldeep and possibly Jadeja. 

[express bowling]

Akashdeep needs to be tried.

 

He may provide a decent accuracy + pace combo. 

 

In Australia he had still not regained pace after his illness and suffered. In the IPL he was bowling at his original speed of late 130s to early 140s.

 

He is likely to be more accurate than Siraj, Prasidh. Shardul and Harshit and will definitely be quicker than Arshdeep and Shardul. 

 

But nothing is a certainty regarding these almost untested pacers.

 

 

[lemsip]

3 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Akashdeep needs to be tried.

 

They might as well try everyone. Anyone who can bowl consistently to a plan will do. Pace is irrelevant as that is not going to worry the English batsmen. In Edgbaston, an accurate slow medium bowler like Philander is far more effective than someone who busts a gut to hurl 135k + pies..

[express bowling]

2 minutes ago, lemsip said:

They might as well try everyone. Anyone who can bowl consistently to a plan will do. Pace is irrelevant as that is not going to worry the English batsmen. In Edgbaston, an accurate slow medium bowler like Philander is far more effective than someone who busts a gut to hurl 135k + pies..

 

 

Pace is not irrelevant as most SENA pitches flatten out in the 2nd innings these days.

 

Moreover, England, with it's Bazball approach, is likely to prefer flatter pitches these days to help their strokeful batters. Earlier series pitches before 2022 are unlikely to be emulated.

 

Pace + accuracy combo is the key these days. And the ability to hit the deck regularly to extract seam movement and bounce consistently.

 

Accuracy remaining the same in both cases, do you think Bumrah would have been the same bowler that he is now if he floated the ball up at 125 to 137 k instead of hitting the deck at 135 k to 145 k / 147 k like he does now ?

 

 

[lemsip]

22 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Pace is not irrelevant as most SENA pitches flatten out in the 2nd innings these days.

 

The ceiling for most Indian bowlers is about 135K which is the pace they can operate at consistenty. English batsmen regularly encounter that right from club level on these wickets. On flat wickets that kind of speed makes no difference if the bowler doesn't have something else in the armoury. I would rather pick a bowler like a praveen kumar or bhuvi who can use swing or a Philander who often bowled below 120K but knew how to use seam movement. 

[Adamant]

If Bumrah doesn’t play then,

 

Siraj

Akashdeep

Arshdeep

Rana

 

We will need 4 proper pacers.

[express bowling]

7 minutes ago, lemsip said:

The ceiling for most Indian bowlers is about 135K which is the pace they can operate at consistenty.

 

How ?

 

Starting 2011, most of the quicker Indian pacers operate in the 133 k to 145 k / 147 k range in tests. 

 

Lots of balls in the 140 k+ range.

 

Chronologically ... Ishant, Umesh, Aaron, Shami, Bumrah, Siraj, Saini, Prasidh, Harshit all qualify.

 

Umesh, Bumrah and Aaron could cross 150 k in their quickest years.

 

Siraj and Prasidh can drop to 130 k to 140 k when not in rhythm.

 

But all generally qualify as 140 k + pacers and not 135 k.

 

In this test, Bumrah has often bowled entire overs around 145 k. How is this 135 k ??

 

 

7 minutes ago, lemsip said:

English batsmen regularly encounter that right from club level on these wickets.

 

In tests, apart from Mark Wood, none of the regular English pacers are quicker than the Indian quicker pacers. So I doubt they have that kind of pace at County level, let alone club level. 

 

Infact, the English selectors were lamenting a short time back that they have non focused on pace and have tried to promote military medium pacers at county level.

 

 

7 minutes ago, lemsip said:

On flat wickets that kind of speed makes no difference if the bowler doesn't have something else in the armoury. I would rather pick a bowler like a praveen kumar or bhuvi who can use swing or a Philander who often bowled below 120K but knew how to use seam movement. 

 

It is not just the speed which troubles any batters these days. Neither does accuracy at medium pace.

 

It is the combo of speed + accuracy + bounce + movement.

 

Bhuvi and Praveen did not have even medium length test careers.

 

 

[lemsip]

Just now, express bowling said:

Siraj and Prasidh can drop to 130 k to 140 k when not in rhythm.

 

And how did they do with that "pace" yesterday ? They were being tonked around by the lower order like club trundlers because they had no other skill. If you look at overseas bowlers who have been successful in England from Alderman, Mcgrath, Philander, Mohd Asif etc, pace was not the weapon that brought them success. As long as you can do something with the ball, England is the one country where you can do well without being particularly quick.