Karun Nair should have batted ahead of Pant, Pant should be #6 in long term

[lemsip]

11 hours ago, dilliboy said:

Pant is your best test batsmen in overseas..batting him below 5 is sacrilege.

If he keeps wickets full time then he will have to move down the order one way or the other. Either through loss of form or injury because the current workload means he will hardly have any time off the field during a test match and it is impossible to sustain that long term.

[crictime]

2 hours ago, New guy said:

Except Pant has been doing this for 5+ years and on more difficult pitches. So he has been far more consistent 

 

He has been our best bat by abling way, jaiswal still needs to prove himself more. 

 

In no way a batsman averaging 42 is better than one averaging 52 in tests. Plus he is an opener  comimg in to bat when the ball swings, fielders are in catching positions, pace bowlers are fresh bowling first spells of the tests, use new ball more easily to bounce it more and hit the bat hard with new ball.

 

If at all Yashasvi Jaiswal needs to prove, then it is not whether he can be as good as Rishabh Pant. It will take his career to wrong direction. Its like asking a student getting 99% to prove that he is bettwr than one getting 89%. If he tries to come to Rishabh Pant level, his average will fall by whooping 10 runs !! As Indian fan I would rather wan he tries not to prove he is Rishabh Pant, what I would like to see if he can take  average higher to 55. To me, Yashasvi Jaiswal is easily the best test batsman in this lineup and Rishabh Pant is second best. The problem is the other specialist batsman are not good enough to cover the huge gap between the average of 52 runs and 43 rund. Not Rishabh Pant's fault though. He is wicket-keeper so 42 average is good for him. The second best batsman, third best and fourth best batsmen should also ideally be a specialist batsmen. The huge gulf in averages between Yashasvi Jaiswal and others just shows how bad our specialist batsmen are.

 

Ideally.....

Yashasvi Jaiswal - 52

 

One batsman shoudl average around 49 to 50

 

Two batsmen would average between 44 to  49.

 

Rishabh Pant - 43

 

Yashasvi Jaiswal

214 in second innings at Rajkot - India won by 400+ margin

209 at Vizag - India won against England.. Scored more than 50% of the Indian innings.

 

171 at Roseau against WI . India won that test.

 

His 161 in second at Perth came against Pat Cummins, Starc, Josh Hazelwood , Nathan Lyon. India won that test.

 

His 101 in current match at Leeds ser the platform for a big score for batsmen natting after him. His innnings took the shine of the ball and tired the pacers helped next batters to score relatively easily.

 

82 and 84 at Melbourne - India lost but he did his part in both innings by settinh the platform and taking shine off the ball. Not his mistake thatvteam did not win.

Apart from that, Yashasvi Jaiswal has average of 52 whereas Rishabh Pant has average of 42. There is a vast difference in that. 

Also, Yashasvi Jaiswal is 23 and Rishabh Pant is 27. In spite of him having so much success at this age already, with experience under his belt, the  best is yet to come. Yashasvi Jaiswal has played 19 matches whereas Rishabh Pant has played 43 matches.  Considering that Yashasvi Jaiswal had played 24 tests less in comparison, there will be more impactful contributions from him. 

Edited June 24 by crictime

[Lord]

11 hours ago, lemsip said:

If he keeps wickets full time then he will have to move down the order one way or the other. Either through loss of form or injury because the current workload means he will hardly have any time off the field during a test match and it is impossible to sustain that long term.

 

Yes we can easily get Jurel in who is a decent batsman himself.

 

One big thing about this regime is not giving youngsters any backing

[lemsip]

2 minutes ago, Lord said:

One big thing about this regime is not giving youngsters any backing

In fact Gambhir apparently has very clear dislikes among certain players. Sarfaraz is one. I suspect Pant is another although he's performing so he is tolerated.

[lemsip]

1 hour ago, lemsip said:

In fact Gambhir apparently has very clear dislikes among certain players. Sarfaraz is one. I suspect Pant is another although he's performing so he is tolerated.

In fact just heard gambhir's press conference. He is really a douchebag. A journalist asked him for this thoughts on the positives and mentioned Pant's 2 centuries and he got antsy and started criticising the question asking why he only asked about Pant's centuries and not the others. There is something distasteful about this guy's man management skills and can imagine anyone not amongst his favourites could be in for a tough time with him in charge. 

Edited June 24 by lemsip

[rkt.india]

You are right pant batting at 5 means our tail starts from #6.

[Trichromatic]

Your number 5 can’t throw wickets like this. Pant should bat freely at 6.

[bowl_out]

34 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Your number 5 can’t throw wickets like this. Pant should bat freely at 6.

 

Even Sundar at 5 won't be a bad idea. He doesn't know to bat with the tail as we saw in Australia. He should be played higher, else his batting is wasted.

[Lord]

4 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

Your number 5 can’t throw wickets like this. Pant should bat freely at 6.

It's just one spot difference. Pant is experienced now and still shows lack of game awareness 

[BacktoCricaddict]

On 6/24/2025 at 2:28 AM, crictime said:

In no way a batsman averaging 42 is better than one averaging 52 in tests. Plus he is an opener  comimg in to bat when the ball swings, fielders are in catching positions, pace bowlers are fresh bowling first spells of the tests, use new ball more easily to bounce it more and hit the bat hard with new ball.

 

If at all Yashasvi Jaiswal needs to prove, then it is not whether he can be as good as Rishabh Pant. It will take his career to wrong direction. Its like asking a student getting 99% to prove that he is bettwr than one getting 89%. If he tries to come to Rishabh Pant level, his average will fall by whooping 10 runs !! As Indian fan I would rather wan he tries not to prove he is Rishabh Pant, what I would like to see if he can take  average higher to 55. To me, Yashasvi Jaiswal is easily the best test batsman in this lineup and Rishabh Pant is second best. The problem is the other specialist batsman are not good enough to cover the huge gap between the average of 52 runs and 43 rund. Not Rishabh Pant's fault though. He is wicket-keeper so 42 average is good for him. The second best batsman, third best and fourth best batsmen should also ideally be a specialist batsmen. The huge gulf in averages between Yashasvi Jaiswal and others just shows how bad our specialist batsmen are.

 

Ideally.....

Yashasvi Jaiswal - 52

 

One batsman shoudl average around 49 to 50

 

Two batsmen would average between 44 to  49.

 

Rishabh Pant - 43

 

Yashasvi Jaiswal

214 in second innings at Rajkot - India won by 400+ margin

209 at Vizag - India won against England.. Scored more than 50% of the Indian innings.

 

171 at Roseau against WI . India won that test.

 

His 161 in second at Perth came against Pat Cummins, Starc, Josh Hazelwood , Nathan Lyon. India won that test.

 

His 101 in current match at Leeds ser the platform for a big score for batsmen natting after him. His innnings took the shine of the ball and tired the pacers helped next batters to score relatively easily.

 

82 and 84 at Melbourne - India lost but he did his part in both innings by settinh the platform and taking shine off the ball. Not his mistake thatvteam did not win.

Apart from that, Yashasvi Jaiswal has average of 52 whereas Rishabh Pant has average of 42. There is a vast difference in that. 

Also, Yashasvi Jaiswal is 23 and Rishabh Pant is 27. In spite of him having so much success at this age already, with experience under his belt, the  best is yet to come. Yashasvi Jaiswal has played 19 matches whereas Rishabh Pant has played 43 matches.  Considering that Yashasvi Jaiswal had played 24 tests less in comparison, there will be more impactful contributions from him. 

 

All good thoughts, but if you are looking for a proven matchwinner (and that may be simply due to his batting position), I will pick Pant over anyone in history. Next comes VVSL. 

[Trichromatic]

4 hours ago, Lord said:

It's just one spot difference. Pant is experienced now and still shows lack of game awareness 

 

I think at this time everyone has accepted that part.

 

Even that one spot will make lot of difference, but in this setup where next batsman is in an AR. Ideally all specialist batsmen should bat ahead of him and then he should be bridge between specialists and tail.

[Lord]

7 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

I think at this time everyone has accepted that part.

 

Even that one spot will make lot of difference, but in this setup where next batsman is in an AR. Ideally all specialist batsmen should bat ahead of him and then he should be bridge between specialists and tail.

I think he bats at 5 due to experience. We can have Sarfraz at 5 ideally or even Jurel. 

 

Alternatively Pant at 5 and Jadeja/Washington at 6 can allow us to play extra bowling option 

[Number]

Dropping Karun from the XI after his 300 was one of the most stupid decisions in Indian cricket history.

 

But selecting Karun Nair under kind of a guilt-trip pressure when he has been discarded even by Karanataka, is even more stupid.

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, Lord said:

I think he bats at 5 due to experience. We can have Sarfraz at 5 ideally or even Jurel. 

 

Alternatively Pant at 5 and Jadeja/Washington at 6 can allow us to play extra bowling option 

Top 6 should be all batsmen, no alrounder unless he is as good as a specialist batsman. #7 alrounder and then four bowlers. 

[lemsip]

3 hours ago, Lord said:

I think he bats at 5 due to experience. We can have Sarfraz at 5 ideally or even Jurel. 

 

Alternatively Pant at 5 and Jadeja/Washington at 6 can allow us to play extra bowling option 

There is a reason that no other team uses their full time test keeper to bat so high in the order. When Sangakara and ABD played as full time batters they gave up the gloves.

Keeping is anyway a demanding job especially in flat conditions and requiring someone to do both jobs is just asking for performance lapses or injuries in one or both of the disciplines.

[lemsip]

8 hours ago, Lord said:

It's just one spot difference. Pant is experienced now and still shows lack of game awareness 

I'd rather he continues to play freely and attacks when the ball is there. India needs batsmen like that as there are too many other defensively minded players in the team who never counterattack or lack the attitude and skill to do so. Jaiswal and Pant are the two players who have this attitude when they can attack while having a solid defensive technique.

This 25 was his lowest score in the last 5 innings in Australia and England  which has included 2 hundreds and a fifty. The way he gets out is often a bit dramatic but in this game, a wicket is a wicket be it being caught off a wild swish like Jaiswal or getting caught on the boundary which Jaiswal also narrowly avoided when Pope chose not to attempt a catch off a mistimed hook. 

The issue is that his dismissal often sparks a collapse as the mid to lower order never steps up and Pant becomes the target towards whom all the criticism tends to be channeled while the consistent non performers slink off.

Edited July 3 by lemsip

[coffee_rules]

Both scored big 100s at #5 , on current form and ability, I will go with Pant. 6 is too late for Pant. 

[rkt.india]

3 hours ago, Number said:

Dropping Karun from the XI after his 300 was one of the most stupid decisions in Indian cricket history.

 

But selecting Karun Nair under kind of a guilt-trip pressure when he has been discarded even by Karanataka, is even more stupid.

He wasn't dropped after 300. He was dropped after being complete failure in BGT. His 300 was also a lucky innings with half a dozen drops. 

[lemsip]

28 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Both scored big 100s at #5 , on current form and ability, I will go with Pant. 6 is too late for Pant. 

At the same time #5 is too high for a full time wicketkeeper. Sooner or later something will have to give.

[rkt.india]

Dhoni used to bat at 7. Then Pant came and started batting at 6. Now he is batting at 5. We are consistently weakening the batting lineup by pushing a wk up the order instead of finding batsmen to do their job