ENG in NZ - T20s & ODIs

[Gollum]

Archer’s four maidens today are the second-most for an England bowler in an ODI post the 2008 home summer. Chris Woakes (4/18) had bowled five against Sri Lanka in Chester-le-Street in 2021.

 

@Nikhil_cric you were saying something about some ball change in ODIs recently which is lowering scores? PP batting has become tougher all of a sudden. 

[Lone Wolf]

NZ is a white ball menace side.  Depth in talent is pretty handy for such a small country.

 

Their no name guys were smashing full strength Pak sides few months back & they are nowhere to be seen lol..

[Gollum]

1 hour ago, rollingstoned said:

Good at playing methodical cricket, don't have many Mavericks generally and don't brutalize you. 

Not an extremely high ceiling like India, Australia. But higher floor than other teams. 

 

Despite always flying under the radar, they make these deep runs in tournaments and rarely drop matches against minnows or teams who are inferior to them.

 

A surprising ODI WC stat, 9/13 times they have reached SF stage, same as the 6 time world champions. 

 

 

[Gollum]

5 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

NZ is a white ball menace side.  Depth in talent is pretty handy for such a small country.

 

Their no name guys were smashing full strength Pak sides few months back & they are nowhere to be seen lol..

The pace talent (across formats) coming out of there is much better than rest of the world. 

 

27 WC in RSA

28 T20 WC in Aus/NZ

30 T20 WC in Eng

All WTC finals in Eng

 

They will be prime contenders in all of these. 

[Gollum]

If Poms continue like this, they may have to play qualifiers for 27 WC. 

[rollingstoned]

20 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Not an extremely high ceiling like India, Australia. But higher floor than other teams. 

 

Despite always flying under the radar, they make these deep runs in tournaments and rarely drop matches against minnows or teams who are inferior to them.

 

A surprising ODI WC stat, 9/13 times they have reached SF stage, same as the 6 time world champions. 

 

 

Bang test at home was a big aberration from that pov. They were thrashing everyone other than Aus & Saf for some time there. 

They've always done the basics well even when they lacked talent. It's why in ICC tournaments we sometimes come up short after beating likes of Bang, SL and Pak who are wanting in that regard apart from not being as fired up when facing Nzl compared to say Australia. They force you to give extra 10% like other SENA teams. If we were defending that target in the CT final in their place we wouldn't have made it as hard as they made it. 

Edited October 29 by rollingstoned

[Nikhil_cric]

21 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Archer’s four maidens today are the second-most for an England bowler in an ODI post the 2008 home summer. Chris Woakes (4/18) had bowled five against Sri Lanka in Chester-le-Street in 2021.

 

@Nikhil_cric you were saying something about some ball change in ODIs recently which is lowering scores? PP batting has become tougher all of a sudden. 

Since Jan, 2021 the kookaburra ball has gotten a reinforced seam that lasts longer and an extra layer of lacquer.

 

And with two of them in ODIs,  it's become a lot harder to bat upfront. 

 

On flat highways, you can still belt 400.  But if there's even a hint of swing or some moisture in the pitch , it becomes quite a challenge in the first 8 overs.

 

Helping finger spinners as well. Between 2013-2021, only wristspinners found any success. 

 

 

Finger spinners have come back very strongly 

 

 

[nitinbwj]

NZ were trying to make it interesting and then Santner smacked 34 off 17 

[Stan AF]

  

 

[Stan AF]

Will young took an one handed blinder of a catch off harry brook by Mitchell santner.

[tapandrun]

Since 2015 Nz cricket has invested in right direction. All the players have been high potential. There are no bits and pieces players.

They seem to have better understanding of the trade-offs.

 

In fast bowling their investments is in tall, hit the deck fast bowlers, if not tall then should be skillful like henry and boult.

Most players are multi-skilled with one strong suite. They arent  making useless mistakes in setting up the team.

 

Orouk and Duffy were nothing 1-2 yrs back, now they are top bowlers. They invested in them. Both had basic ingredients and needed some development.

They have multiple bowling options who are proper batters 1st: Phillips, Bracewell, Mitchell. Santner is top LA spinner and can bat and hit 4/6s down the order.

 

They are setting up good Odi side

 

 

Edited October 29 by tapandrun

[tapandrun]

15 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Since Jan, 2021 the kookaburra ball has gotten a reinforced seam that lasts longer and an extra layer of lacquer.

 

And with two of them in ODIs,  it's become a lot harder to bat upfront. 

 

On flat highways, you can still belt 400.  But if there's even a hint of swing or some moisture in the pitch , it becomes quite a challenge in the first 8 overs.

 

Helping finger spinners as well. Between 2013-2021, only wristspinners found any success. 

 

 

Finger spinners have come back very strongly 

 

 

 

In my under standing ::White-ball uses dye, lacquer( thin layer )is mostly used if used is for visibility in case of white-ball so that dirt from pitch/ground does not stick to the ball quickly . Red-ball uses lacquer and layers of it.

Kookaburra has started making pronounce seam in last few yrs for both red and white-ball.

 But if you are referring to wc in aus it was a batch of ball which was swinging , prior to that ball was not swinging.

 

There is no such strong come-back of finger spinners in white-ball, its just teams have started using their batters to bowl off-spin when the match-up favours.

Previously off-spin became extinct from white-ball. Its just that most top teams are using their batter to bowl off-spin now. The team who does not have wrist spinners go to next best option i.e. LA orthodox.

 

When talking of spin in white-ball can not count the matches in sl or bd.

 

If referring to tests Pak, WI have started using dukes if not wrong and Ind uses sg.

 

And alot of success to pacers in recent  times  have been because of wobble seam bowling 

 

The reason why pink-ball is different because it uses both dye and lacquer hence it remains hard for a longer time than red-ball and why player thinks it hits bats harder.

 

general observation  white-ball pings better on the bat than red-ball from same manufactrer

 

.  

 

 

Edited October 29 by tapandrun

[Nikhil_cric]

9 hours ago, tapandrun said:

 

In my under standing ::White-ball uses dye, lacquer( thin layer )is mostly used if used is for visibility in case of white-ball so that dirt from pitch/ground does not stick to the ball quickly . Red-ball uses lacquer and layers of it.

Kookaburra has started making pronounce seam in last few yrs for both red and white-ball.

 But if you are referring to wc in aus it was a batch of ball which was swinging , prior to that ball was not swinging.

 

There is no such strong come-back of finger spinners in white-ball, its just teams have started using their batters to bowl off-spin when the match-up favours.

Previously off-spin became extinct from white-ball. Its just that most top teams are using their batter to bowl off-spin now. The team who does not have wrist spinners go to next best option i.e. LA orthodox.

 

When talking of spin in white-ball can not count the matches in sl or bd.

 

If referring to tests Pak, WI have started using dukes if not wrong and Ind uses sg.

 

And alot of success to pacers in recent  times  have been because of wobble seam bowling 

 

The reason why pink-ball is different because it uses both dye and lacquer hence it remains hard for a longer time than red-ball and why player thinks it hits bats harder.

 

general observation  white-ball pings better on the bat than red-ball from same manufactrer

 

.  

 

 

Not just referring to the World T20 in Australia. 

The white ball has swung more everywhere, including India.

 

Between 2013 and 2020, the kookaburra had a seam that would flatten after 4 overs maybe. Now it's holding shape for a fair bit longer. 

 

Also, I wouldn't include World Cups and ICC events in this, because kookaburra seems to make slightly different versions for the World Cup as compared to the ones used in bilateral cricket

 

It's not well documented and cricket is a funny sport where this company does whatever it wants without any proper oversight by ICC.

 

 

However, there's enough evidence that swing/seam had largely vanished from white ball cricket from around mid 2013 till Jan, 2021 .

 

Ever since, it has made a strong comeback 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

They should return home in shame lol 57/5 already 

[diga]

7 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

They should return home in shame lol 57/5 already 

Good practice for Ashes... They are just fine tuning their batting. I don't think that poms are taking this seriously 

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, diga said:

Good practice for Ashes... They are just fine tuning their batting. I don't think that poms are taking this seriously 

 

I am watching it. It is not about not taking seriously. They have no clue against moving ball.

[vvvslaxman]

This is the kind of tail we need. Carse, Overton etc.

[vvvslaxman]

46, 42, 43*  overton in this series batting at no.8.

[vvvslaxman]

England's no.11 batsman has 6000 first class runs lol Adil Rashid

[vvvslaxman]

THey have this interesting half time show . Today Rachin Ravindra is the guest. They discuss mostly about non-cricketing things. They have 6 cricket balls  which they have to open.  Each has a question.  Things like "What would you do if you get a million dollars"..  Everyone has to answer. No Kohli purana kind of things there lol