Gill is a misfit in T20s

[Vk1]

1 hour ago, tapandrun said:

Toss becomes a big factor .

 

Think curators are okay, the blame for Ind team and tm was shifted to the pitch and by extension to curators. 

If batters do not have guts to score and 4/6 fr 100 balls. No one can do anything.

 

Plus it was an ICC event there was a icc representative takiing care of it who already flagged the issue. Its hard to create v.specific type of pitch.

Need years of knowledge about that particular pitch how it works. Its kind of trial and error multiple times to get a point where curator can say with confidence that yes they can make certain kind of pitch.

 

That's one of the major reason Kolhi was advocating 4-5 test centres so that they know which pitch in what way and if it has to be altered they can do it with some degree of confidence.

 

Ind curator have become good at creating 3 kind of pitches ::: Flat and good batting surfaces , Spinning tracks and the ones which dhoni liked (for white-ball)which were bit tacky not fully flat not fully spin supporting (sl/bd) .  

 

 

I don't remember the last time we saw a game in India where the pitch which was not flat and behaved same for both teams - 250/280 score close games that we used to see earlier.. either its a flat pitch or a slow/rank turner.. blame would be on the curators

Edited November 1 by Vk1

[AKane]

Three more T20Is to see the Samson magic.

 

I really hope they get him on top of the order - that way we can see Samson do his T20 Roy Fredericks imitation.

 

Eagerly waiting...

[tapandrun]

1 hour ago, Vk1 said:

I don't remember the last time we saw a game in India where the pitch which was not flat and behaved same for both teams - 250/280 score close games that we used to see earlier.. either its a flat pitch or a slow/rank turner.. blame would be on the curators

Fighting scores keeps on moving upwards with time. earlier it was 225-250 and then moved to 265-285 and it has moved it further.

 

Game has changed, rules have changed, batters and batting styles have changed.

 

Now again there is a rule change with there will be only 1 ball post 34th over, wobble seam.

 

In ind they tinker the pitches too much so there is no natural behaviour, see Aus and eng nothing much has changed year after year, its just the changes due to course of time. Or if a new surface is relayed.

 

In Ind they want different pitches or T20s, diff for odis and diff for tests.

 

Think hamming has been chief curator for pcb for last 2 years, he is well known but finds it hard there to make consistent pitches. Its the demands of captain coaches and tm keeps changing 

 

 

 

Edited November 1 by tapandrun

[Gollum]

3 hours ago, putrevus said:

Jaiswal is not much a upgrade over Gill in t20s. 

How is he not? When he has Travis Head like numbers? 

 

In T20Is, Avg 36, SR 165 vs Avg 29, SR 141, doesn't seem similar.

[bowl_out]

4 hours ago, putrevus said:

There is no reason why Gill can be a regular player in t20s. But in this Indian team, he has displaced everyone that is the bigger issue than him being a good t20 batsman.

 

Every one is batting out of their comfort zone to make place for Gill and that is showing in team's performance.

 

Jaiswal is not much a upgrade over Gill in t20s. But will the team become more balanced as players will be playing in their comfort zones is the big question.

 

57 minutes ago, Gollum said:

How is he not? When he has Travis Head like numbers? 

 

In T20Is, Avg 36, SR 165 vs Avg 29, SR 141, doesn't seem similar.

 

More than whether Jaiswal is an upgrade over Gill or not, the bigger question is how the side becomes imbalanced when Gill is forced into the XI.

 

The side might benefit more from Rinku in the middle than Gill/Jaiswal at the top.

 

Abhishek

Samson

Tilak

SKY

Dube

Rinku

Pandya

Axar

Varun

Kuldeep/Arshdeep

Bumrah

 

This should be the XI. Unfortunately, Jaiswal would miss out from my XI to bring in Rinku.

After T20 WC, move on from SKY, bring Jaiswal to open and move Samson to 3.

[deepdynamo]

13 minutes ago, bowl_out said:

 

 

More than whether Jaiswal is an upgrade over Gill or not, the bigger question is how the side becomes imbalanced when Gill is forced into the XI.

 

The side might benefit more from Rinku in the middle than Gill/Jaiswal at the top.

 

Abhishek

Samson

Tilak

SKY

Dube

Rinku

Pandya

Axar

Varun

Kuldeep/Arshdeep

Bumrah

 

This should be the XI. Unfortunately, Jaiswal would miss out from my XI to bring in Rinku.

After T20 WC, move on from SKY, bring Jaiswal to open and move Samson to 3.

 

That is my side as well. No brainers. Such a powerful, versatile side.
Infact in all the upcoming T20s, give bowling time to Abhi & Tilak as well. Prepare them for the world cup.
Bumrah & Arshdeep in playing XI in home conditions. Kuldeep misses out but play him 100% against Pak, England & SA.

 

Gill, what have you done- screwed the balance of the side 

 

[bowl_out]

40 minutes ago, deepdynamo said:

 

That is my side as well. No brainers. Such a powerful, versatile side.
Infact in all the upcoming T20s, give bowling time to Abhi & Tilak as well. Prepare them for the world cup.
Bumrah & Arshdeep in playing XI in home conditions. Kuldeep misses out but play him 100% against Pak, England & SA.

 

Gill, what have you done- screwed the balance of the side 

 

 

Exactly. 

And they shouldn't tamper with the batting order too much. Hate that suddenly one day Tilak plays at 3, another day at 5. Rana comes ahead of Dube.

If anything, they can make 5 clusters and shuffle players within them. For example, SKY at 3 and Tilak at 4 is fine if they want to keep right/left.

 

Openers (1,2) - Abhi, Samson

Top order (3,4) - Tilak, SKY

Middle order (5,6) - Dube, Rinku

All rounder (7,8) - Pandya, Axar

Bowlers (9,10,11) - Varun, Arshdeep, Bumrah

[Suhaan]

3 hours ago, deepdynamo said:

Gill, what have you done- screwed the balance of the side 

This side will sink further with Gill

[vvvslaxman]

This SKY abusing his captaincy power is sickening. Tilak should always bat at 3. He is the 2nd best batsman in the side. He should get the most number of balls. Giving him 8 overs, 9 overs without using his form  is criminal. SKY should bat at 7 or 8.

[cricspirit]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

This SKY abusing his captaincy power is sickening. Tilak should always bat at 3. He is the 2nd best batsman in the side. He should get the most number of balls. Giving him 8 overs, 9 overs without using his form  is criminal. SKY should bat at 7 or 8.

 

SKY has a small runway left. I think a year or two max. 

 

He immediately captured no.3 spot when he became captain. Also more antics these days than runs

 

[Ultimate_Game]

10 hours ago, Gollum said:

How is he not? When he has Travis Head like numbers? 

 

In T20Is, Avg 36, SR 165 vs Avg 29, SR 141, doesn't seem similar.

 

Dude, you're arguing with someone who thinks Kohli would've scored 500+ runs in Test series in England and that he's still better than all of the other batters and would walk into the team across all the formats now 

 

And he's the same piece of shyte who took shots at Abhishek when Abhishek scored a duck in his debut match as a kid. This guy only has one agenda - lick Kohli's balls and denigrate any other player or re-write history to prove the same. As per him Kohli is a better batter than Tendulkar so no wonder he thinks Jaiswal is not an improvement over Gill when Jaiswal averages 36 instead of 28 with a SR of 165 instead of 130. The guy is as clueless as they come and the only thing he's here for is to biggy up Kohli and bring everyone else down.

[Ultimate_Game]

9 hours ago, bowl_out said:

 

 

More than whether Jaiswal is an upgrade over Gill or not, the bigger question is how the side becomes imbalanced when Gill is forced into the XI.

 

The side might benefit more from Rinku in the middle than Gill/Jaiswal at the top.

 

Abhishek

Samson

Tilak

SKY

Dube

Rinku

Pandya

Axar

Varun

Kuldeep/Arshdeep

Bumrah

 

This should be the XI. Unfortunately, Jaiswal would miss out from my XI to bring in Rinku.

After T20 WC, move on from SKY, bring Jaiswal to open and move Samson to 3.

 

Unfortunately Rinku just like Jaiswal is not part of the inner circle and doesn't have the backing of bigshots. Nobody has their back no matter what they do and they're the first ones to be sidelined. If they were playing for MI or RCB (or CSK), things would've been different.

[tapandrun]

Prior to asia cup it looked like Ind team had only 1 issue that is the finishers' role. But now everything looks out of place and everything is messy.

 

This is the same issue Eng in going through alot of chop and changing, their previous generation was v.good at playing in different roles and positions.

But they are right now having some issue could be because of lack of exp. the previous generation had exp. and was playing in all sort of leagues which made them capable players at various roles and positions.

 

Ind batters never faced with that of issue to play at various spots or a new role, they always played at their favourable spots in IPL and if they moved up/down was to get a spot in Ind team and they set-up their IPL teams tht way.

 

Alot of flags have been raised only Sky recently but only him and Abhishek have been proper t20 batters that have come through IPL for Ind team. And that is because they were not the star players of their respective sides and things were not set-up to support them and what ever they were doing was because they were natural at it , the same goes for Jaiswal and Verma too.

Edited November 2 by tapandrun

[putrevus]

10 hours ago, bowl_out said:

 

 

More than whether Jaiswal is an upgrade over Gill or not, the bigger question is how the side becomes imbalanced when Gill is forced into the XI.

 

The side might benefit more from Rinku in the middle than Gill/Jaiswal at the top.

 

Abhishek

Samson

Tilak

SKY

Dube

Rinku

Pandya

Axar

Varun

Kuldeep/Arshdeep

Bumrah

 

This should be the XI. Unfortunately, Jaiswal would miss out from my XI to bring in Rinku.

After T20 WC, move on from SKY, bring Jaiswal to open and move Samson to 3.

Nah Rinku is not needed, he plays very few deliveries to make impact . He has no secondary skill to justify his spot,

[rkt.india]

T20 side was doing so well. They disturbed the whole squad to accommodate Gill.

[Manucrick]

Change topic name to gill destroying t20 team

[Suhaan]

Gill needs to retire within 3-4 or atbest 12 months from international T20

He's can't be better than Pujara in this format let alone others

[tapandrun]

At-least now ppl are talking about it. Yes ppl were talking but now conversation is clear and to the point.

Its nt about personal but position. Gill has disturbed the balance. He is adding more pressure on Abhishek to hit the balls and pushing tilak down the order.

 

 

https://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-videos/147748/answered-has-gills-presence-disturbed-indias-t20-balance

Edited Sunday at 02:21 PM by tapandrun

[Ultimate_Game]

42 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

At-least now ppl are talking about it. Yes ppl were talking but now conversation is clear and to the point.

Its nt about personal but position. Gill has disturbed the balance. He is adding more pressure on Abhishek to hit the balls and pushing tilak down the order.

 

 

https://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-videos/147748/answered-has-gills-presence-disturbed-indias-t20-balance

 

11 hours ago, rkt.india said:

T20 side was doing so well. They disturbed the whole squad to accommodate Gill.

 

9 hours ago, Manucrick said:

Change topic name to gill destroying t20 team

 

9 hours ago, Suhaan said:

Gill needs to retire within 3-4 or atbest 12 months from international T20

He's can't be better than Pujara in this format let alone others

 

 

Replace Gill with Jaiswal, or have Samson in his place to open to add Rinku or Parag down the order will solve everything. We get one more enforcer at the top to pair up with Abhishek so it's not all on Abhishek to provide rapid starts. Plus it allows Tilak to bat at his favorite spot at 3 with SKY (though I would prefer Iyer) at 4.

 

Also, if Samson doesn't open then he has no place in the team. Better to go with Jitesh lower down the order who can give you 12 ball 20 type of innings and can go from ball one unlike Samson who needs time to get set.

 

Finally, the team needs to understand Kuldeep is not our no. 1 spinner and should only be played on spin friendly pitches where 3 spinners are the norm. Varun C is our no. 1 LOI spinner and in SENA and other non spin friendly pitches and Varun can be supported by likes of Axar and Parag.

 

But our biggest problem is at the top of the order in Gill. He's not a T20 batter and kills the momentum at the beginning. We may still win with him but it's more like winning inspite of him than because of him. Selectors have to kick him out of T20 side else we risk losing the next WT20 at home which we shouldn't based on the talent we have. Selectors and BCCI are intent on making Gill what he isn't - a T20 batter when he clearly isn't. I would rather take Priyansh Arya instead of him if the team management have issues with Jaiswal.

[tapandrun]

2 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

 

 

 

 

Replace Gill with Jaiswal, or have Samson in his place to open to add Rinku or Parag down the order will solve everything. We get one more enforcer at the top to pair up with Abhishek so it's not all on Abhishek to provide rapid starts. Plus it allows Tilak to bat at his favorite spot at 3 with SKY (though I would prefer Iyer) at 4.

 

Also, if Samson doesn't open then he has no place in the team. Better to go with Jitesh lower down the order who can give you 12 ball 20 type of innings and can go from ball one unlike Samson who needs time to get set.

 

Finally, the team needs to understand Kuldeep is not our no. 1 spinner and should only be played on spin friendly pitches where 3 spinners are the norm. Varun C is our no. 1 LOI spinner and in SENA and other non spin friendly pitches and Varun can be supported by likes of Axar and Parag.

 

But our biggest problem is at the top of the order in Gill. He's not a T20 batter and kills the momentum at the beginning. We may still win with him but it's more like winning inspite of him than because of him. Selectors have to kick him out of T20 side else we risk losing the next WT20 at home which we shouldn't based on the talent we have. Selectors and BCCI are intent on making Gill what he isn't - a T20 batter when he clearly isn't. I would rather take Priyansh Arya instead of him if the team management have issues with Jaiswal.

 

Because Ind does not have a wk who can walk into playing 11 just on the batting skills, would prefer wk to open the batting, again its not about personals.

Even if some1 out of 4 wk (sanju, kishan, pant, jitesh )whoever should open, right now the best solution is sanju. Jitesh is not a v.good batter himself but only  good thing is he tries to hit every ball, plays for the team. He hits and hopes kind of batter. It can be 2 edge sword but thats the best Ind got at this moment 

 

Would not really rely on kuldeep/Varun in a big game against sides with big hitters. The things with teams like Aus, Eng and now SA they have big hitter and not just 1-2 every1 is a big hitter even mishits goes for 4/6. So they have to take a call here as well.

 

Gill has added alot of pressure on Abhishek, yes abhishek's natural game is to get going from ball 1, but with gill on other end he ca not afford to play out 2-3 balls as gill is not going to get a boundary unless ball is absolutely in the zone or if he drives and it goes for 4. i.e. gill is not going to take an initiative himself. 

 

So Gills inclusion has disturbed 3 players and balance :: Abhishek (opener), Sanju (wk and other opener) and  Tilak (#3/4) - Top 3 are where you most of runs comes from and to get just gill they have disturbed all 3.

Said this before, if you get accumulator in the team then you have to build a team around them for them. Accumulator can not be a plug and play.

 

As for Priyansh or Vaibhav can they play as finisher ?? if they can it will be a big plus both are 6 hitters.