Younis and Akram speed

[Rightarmfast]

3 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Waqar hitting decent speeds in 99-2000 aus triseries. He was certainly quicker in the early 90s.

 

 

Nobody said he wasn't quick. However, if hitting 142 in 2000 was proof enough he hit 150 consistently in early 90's, then Srinath hit 143+ in 2003. What would that mean?

[Rightarmfast]

On 11/11/2025 at 6:07 AM, tapandrun said:

I am only1 who is posting things with some substantial evidences,  I have shared the cricinfo article from where its all originating - The claims of 156 kmph.

The cricinfo page where the records are shared by same author eddi smith.  Also posted the sprtskeeda page where it claimed srinath bowled 154 kmph in same WC.

 

Rest no one is giving any evidences of any claims ,its all here-say. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Check the videos:

 

 

[Rightarmfast]

Watch the balls, and listen to the commentators talking about Srinath's pace. This is 99, after Srinath's injury. 90's was an era, when nobody would speak about Indian bowlers being fast. So, even if Srinath bowled express, nobody would talk about it. He was not credited. But they did talk about it in patches, although it was never given headlines, like for other bowlers. I have heard commentators in NewZealand talk about his pace in 1997 tour of NZ, In south Africa, in Zimbabwe, in England. And I have heard Ramiz Raza talk about Srinath's pace, all in 90's. 

Anyway... 

[mishra]

On 11/2/2025 at 9:13 AM, Rightarmfast said:

Wasim: When he started cricket around 85-86, he would be around 130'sh bowler. Around 88ish, he was quicker. I would say he would touch around 145-148 for his effort balls, and perhaps touched 150 on few occasions. He was never clocked at 150( or even 145 for that matter). His pace is only on hearsay. One particular spell of his against Steve Waugh was pretty nasty, and quick and most of his lore of being quick is based on that spell. He was definitely sharp, but would mostly operate around 137ish-142'sh is my assumption. 

 

Waqar: For the 1st part of his career, till 92, he was genuinely quick. But genuinely quick in that era would have been 148ish- 152/153'sh. A good measurement to confirm that is when Alan Donald came to the scene, he was considered the fastest. Faster than Waqar. However, Donald was not a 155+ bowler. He was 147ish- 150'ish top I would say. If he has been clocked faster, people can correct me. 

 

Srinath: 1st part of his career-: 92-95ish: About 140-147/148'ish bowler. Could have bowled faster for his effort ball but really, there's no way to confirm. 95-97: 140's- 150ish bowler, with occasionally going faster than that. eg- Ahmedabad test. He clearly bowled extremely fast. 

How could you say Srinath was genuinely fast and not fast medium as people mostly say: 

Pakistani bowler Aqib Javed's statement during the 90's ( public statement): Srinath is also a 90mph bowler, but he doesn't have the same effect and fear from opponents because he doesnt possess aggression of Waqar.

David Gower: ( on multiple occassions, but moreso during 99 WC): Unlike his bowling partners, Srinath is genuinely fast and creates fear out of his sheer pace.

Peter Pollock: (During SA vs Ind match 99 WC): I am watching Srinath bowl, and he is way way faster than the 'fast medium' tag that is being shown.

Nasseer Hussain on multiple occassions: Srinath was genuinely fast and one of the legendary bowlers.

Dickie Bird and David Shepherd ( in articles from 1995 when Srinath played for Gloucestershire): Srinath was the fastest bowler on display, faster than Donald.

 

During 2003 WC, when Srinath was about to retire, he consistently bowled 140+, clocking a max of 143.7( or thereabouts). Thats roughly 89mph. WHEN HE WAS RETIRING AND ALREADY HAD MULTIPLE OPERATIONS ON HIS SHOULDERS.

 

@tapandrun There are multiple batsmen, players from different countries who have spoken about Srinath's pace. Especially from England and South Africa. You will have to read a lot of old articles.

Btw, the headline of the post match article of Aus vs Ind 99 WC match was: Srinath is FAST, but Mcgrath is deadly!

Watched them all and Kapil Paaji. I think Srinath was genuinely quicker than Kapil, Waqar and Wasim but nowhere close to the movement these guys used to get with Bowl. Kapil Paaji inswing were unplayable with new Ball. But the balls where Srinath used to york the batsman, and cleaned them Stumps, You could easily sense it was quicker then yorkers of other three

 

However, I think Pakistani bowlers including Imran were more successfull and feared beacuse they knew impact of bottle caps on old ball which not many knew. 

[tapandrun]

8 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Check the videos:

 

 

 

There is no evidence in the video showing Javagl bowling 150+ kmph (157 kmph). All the text used here is from the cricinfo article :: Javagal Srinath : One in a billion.

For which I already shared the link the text, some part of the article are purposefully used and some are left. 

 

The other is also cricinfo article where Alistar campbell made a passing reference, he didnt add much to that . Here is the link :::

 

https://i.imgci.com/link_to_database/NATIONAL/ZIM/NEWS/ARTICLES_OLD/CAMPBELL_INTERVIEW_APR1997.html

 

Ind news/sports outlet use this and the one in a billion to say srinath was 150+ kmph bowler.

 

One in a billion ::

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/javagal-srinath-one-in-a-billion-111878

 

Was srinath sharp yes we saw him touching 141-143 kmph in his last wc, but was he 150+ kmph sharp do not think so

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[putrevus]

4 hours ago, mishra said:

Watched them all and Kapil Paaji. I think Srinath was genuinely quicker than Kapil, Waqar and Wasim but nowhere close to the movement these guys used to get with Bowl. Kapil Paaji inswing were unplayable with new Ball. But the balls where Srinath used to york the batsman, and cleaned them Stumps, You could easily sense it was quicker then yorkers of other three

 

However, I think Pakistani bowlers including Imran were more successfull and feared beacuse they knew impact of bottle caps on old ball which not many knew. 

Did Pakistani bowlers cheat and used bottle caps answer is yes but to attribute what they accomplished was due to bottle caps only is wrong.

 

Kapil had great outswinger not inswing, he lost that bite from his outswinger  after he started playing ODIs where he had to start bowling inswinger in death overs.Kapil would have been under 25-26 bowler if he had good partner and knew reverse swing.

 

Imran, Wasim and even Waqar are far better bowlers than any Indian bowler other than Bumrah.We have to give credit to Imran who started as medium pace trundler but revamped his action completely to become pace bowler.

 

Just like Murali who became lethal after Doosra, Imran's action was perfect for reverse swing.

 

Srinath had pace but very little of anything else compared to Wasim and Waqar.

 

Wasim is one of top five bowlers in the game.

Edited January 5 by putrevus

[Rightarmfast]

1 hour ago, tapandrun said:

 

There is no evidence in the video showing Javagl bowling 150+ kmph (157 kmph). All the text used here is from the cricinfo article :: Javagal Srinath : One in a billion.

For which I already shared the link the text, some part of the article are purposefully used and some are left. 

 

The other is also cricinfo article where Alistar campbell made a passing reference, he didnt add much to that . Here is the link :::

 

https://i.imgci.com/link_to_database/NATIONAL/ZIM/NEWS/ARTICLES_OLD/CAMPBELL_INTERVIEW_APR1997.html

 

Ind news/sports outlet use this and the one in a billion to say srinath was 150+ kmph bowler.

 

One in a billion ::

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/javagal-srinath-one-in-a-billion-111878

 

Was srinath sharp yes we saw him touching 141-143 kmph in his last wc, but was he 150+ kmph sharp do not think so

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That Alistair Campbell article that you say 'you' posted the link for, here.. That article was retrieved by me in 2002 from Zimbabwe when I was working for 'The Times of India'. 

 

Hahaha, and maybe you forgot speaking about absence of speed guns pre 99. The scoreboard clearly shows the speed being mentioned on the board :)) That's what the video is for. As for the 157, yes, Srinath did clock that in this match. Doesn't matter if you believe or if you don't :)

[tapandrun]

34 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

That Alistair Campbell article that you say 'you' posted the link for, here.. That article was retrieved by me in 2002 from Zimbabwe when I was working for 'The Times of India'. 

 

Hahaha, and maybe you forgot speaking about absence of speed guns pre 99. The scoreboard clearly shows the speed being mentioned on the board :)) That's what the video is for. As for the 157, yes, Srinath did clock that in this match. Doesn't matter if you believe or if you don't :)

 

I didnt say speedometer were not there, I said its was not reliable and was some calibrated radar. The speedometer were not that widely used and only few time the speed were mentioned like that on the scoring screen, or on the video as some text.

 

I am no expert who can tell the speed just by looking at the videos, I can only say if the bowler was relatively fast or not . And can do comparison based on some baseline say if there are 2 bowlers A and B playing same game and if I know A bowls 135 kmph then one can compare and tell.

 

The video is misleading, it talks about everything but showing exactly where he is bowling 145+ kmph, its trying to build circumstantial proof or in-direct references. 

 

Good to know you worked for times of India.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 5 by tapandrun

[mishra]

On 1/5/2026 at 4:58 PM, putrevus said:

Did Pakistani bowlers cheat and used bottle caps answer is yes but to attribute what they accomplished was due to bottle caps only is wrong.

 

Kapil had great outswinger not inswing, he lost that bite from his outswinger  after he started playing ODIs where he had to start bowling inswinger in death overs.Kapil would have been under 25-26 bowler if he had good partner and knew reverse swing.

 

Imran, Wasim and even Waqar are far better bowlers than any Indian bowler other than Bumrah.We have to give credit to Imran who started as medium pace trundler but revamped his action completely to become pace bowler.

 

Just like Murali who became lethal after Doosra, Imran's action was perfect for reverse swing.

 

Srinath had pace but very little of anything else compared to Wasim and Waqar.

 

Wasim is one of top five bowlers in the game.

Kuchh bhi  watching those youtube videos which will have one ball in 5 overs doesn’t mean rest 29 balls were same.

 

Imapact of bottle caps is similar to impact of soft ball specially in odis. Less runs were scored per wicket as spin(sof ball) and reverse swing (generally bottle caps) came into play. Absolutely certain that Benson and Hedges trophy champion was decided on back of bottle caps. Sultan of swing my foot.

Edited January 13 by mishra

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, mishra said:

Kuchh bhi  watching those youtube videos which will have one ball in 5 overs doesn’t mean rest 29 balls were same.

 

Imapact of bottle caps is similar to impact of soft ball specially in odis. Less runs were scored per wicket as spin(sof ball) and reverse swing (generally bottle caps) came into play. Absolutely certain that Benson and Hedges trophy champion was decided on back of bottle caps. Sultan of swing my foot.

So umpires from other teams were sleeping while these guys were using bottle caps willy nilly, they were blind and not able to observe the ball being scuffed.

 

It is understandable ball tampering happening in Pakistan and their umpires turning blind eye. It is not about watching highlights.

[rkt.india]

On 12/26/2025 at 10:31 PM, Rightarmfast said:

Nobody said he wasn't quick. However, if hitting 142 in 2000 was proof enough he hit 150 consistently in early 90's, then Srinath hit 143+ in 2003. What would that mean?

Never said Srinath wasn't fast. He was fast too. His bowling in England 96 was seriously quick.

[Nikhil_cric]

On 1/5/2026 at 10:04 PM, tapandrun said:

 

There is no evidence in the video showing Javagl bowling 150+ kmph (157 kmph). All the text used here is from the cricinfo article :: Javagal Srinath : One in a billion.

For which I already shared the link the text, some part of the article are purposefully used and some are left. 

 

The other is also cricinfo article where Alistar campbell made a passing reference, he didnt add much to that . Here is the link :::

 

https://i.imgci.com/link_to_database/NATIONAL/ZIM/NEWS/ARTICLES_OLD/CAMPBELL_INTERVIEW_APR1997.html

 

Ind news/sports outlet use this and the one in a billion to say srinath was 150+ kmph bowler.

 

One in a billion ::

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/javagal-srinath-one-in-a-billion-111878

 

Was srinath sharp yes we saw him touching 141-143 kmph in his last wc, but was he 150+ kmph sharp do not think so

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He clocked 149.6 kph at the age of 30 after a serious rotator cuff injury. Why is it hard to believe he clocked 150+ in the 96/97 period? 

 

Btw, I'm not claiming he was ever express in terms of average pace. 

 

Peak Waqar was probably quicker on average pace .

 

Srinath needed to be in good rhythm and his action to be at its optimum best to clock these speeds. 

 

Waqar would just explode through the crease. 

 

But he definitely clocked 150+ in little spells before his injury 

 

 

[mishra]

3 hours ago, putrevus said:

So umpires from other teams were sleeping while these guys were using bottle caps willy nilly, they were blind and not able to observe the ball being scuffed.

 

It is understandable ball tampering happening in Pakistan and their umpires turning blind eye. It is not about watching highlights.

Umpiring like Darrel Hair in 2006?

 

Immy Bhai casually admitted with body language as if it was some big "eureka stuff" they had. Shameless!

 

If I am to guess, Ball tampering, Chucking, Fixing and so on was something they assumed as part of their dressing room stuff. Only with advent of modern day cameras it stopped. Shahid Afridi caught eating the red cherry in 2010 was one such incident. 

 

Current mediocre Pakistani pacers and spinners will instantly become as fearful as Akram Waqar Ajmal as soon as they are allowed to tamper and chuck. 

 

PS: I have attended many matches where batting side provides two of their players as umpires and know that umpiring(honesty) standard is based on Teams. Infact, know many local eams which changed leagues becasue they were pissed by Local Pakistani origin people Teams who didnt gave LBW, missed caught behind. BC weekend ka mood kharaab kar dete hai 

Edited January 13 by mishra

[Rightarmfast]

5 hours ago, putrevus said:

So umpires from other teams were sleeping while these guys were using bottle caps willy nilly, they were blind and not able to observe the ball being scuffed.

 

It is understandable ball tampering happening in Pakistan and their umpires turning blind eye. It is not about watching highlights.

As a matter of fact, the umpires couldn't catch. You can only catch someone or try to assess a situation when you are aware that such a thing can happen! 

And, the stats of the 3 big Pakistani pacers from the past is without doubt, inflated because of tampering. And having said that, I still maintain that Wasim has been the best left armer ever, and Waqar was one of a kind. They were both fast, but not as fast as the fables make us believe. 

 

And btw, this thread was about ' speed'. Not the quality or the stats of bowlers. Sure, Srinath could not have been as great as them, more so because he never had a mentor like Imran, and he never had a bowling partner like they had. And I totally believe, if he had better support, his stats would have read much closer to Wasim and Waqar.

 

 

[Rightarmfast]

And boy o boy! Somebody's been making noises about Srinath being several notches down qualitatively vis-a-vis the 2 W's... And look what the stats reveal between 95-2001  @putrevus @tapandrun

 

@mishra @rkt.india @express bowling @Mosher @Suhaan

[putrevus]

4 hours ago, mishra said:

Umpiring like Darrel Hair in 2006?

 

Immy Bhai casually admitted with body language as if it was some big "eureka stuff" they had. Shameless!

 

If I am to guess, Ball tampering, Chucking, Fixing and so on was something they assumed as part of their dressing room stuff. Only with advent of modern day cameras it stopped. Shahid Afridi caught eating the red cherry in 2010 was one such incident. 

 

Current mediocre Pakistani pacers and spinners will instantly become as fearful as Akram Waqar Ajmal as soon as they are allowed to tamper and chuck. 

 

PS: I have attended many matches where batting side provides two of their players as umpires and know that umpiring(honesty) standard is based on Teams. Infact, know many local eams which changed leagues becasue they were pissed by Local Pakistani origin people Teams who didnt gave LBW, missed caught behind. BC weekend ka mood kharaab kar dete hai 

Darrel Hair was a rascist bastard, Aussies were caught ball tampering on live TV.But people have overlooked and given a pass to all three of their fast bowlers.

 

Didn't Murali blatantly chuck his way to 800 wickets.What about Bhajji did he not chuck and help India win two world cups.

 

You are mistaken even if you give current crop of their bowlers all the tools for ball tampering they would not amount to anything.

 

Those three Imran, Wasim and Waqar were ATG bowlers.Did the tamper yes off course they did but still no one can take away that greatness from them.

[vvvslaxman]

3 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

And boy o boy! Somebody's been making noises about Srinath being several notches down qualitatively vis-a-vis the 2 W's... And look what the stats reveal between 95-2001  @putrevus @tapandrun

 

@mishra @rkt.india @express bowling @Mosher @Suhaan

 

He had this prodigious lift.  India never focused on having a proper 3rd or 4th seamer. This impacted frontline bowlers. Same happened to kapil. Infact it was worse for Kapil dev as ghvari wsa a gentle medium pacer and also bowled spin.  BInny and Madanlal were the other guys. They needed helpful conditions.

[singhvivek141]

13 hours ago, putrevus said:

Darrel Hair was a rascist bastard, Aussies were caught ball tampering on live TV.But people have overlooked and given a pass to all three of their fast bowlers.

 

Didn't Murali blatantly chuck his way to 800 wickets.What about Bhajji did he not chuck and help India win two world cups.

 

You are mistaken even if you give current crop of their bowlers all the tools for ball tampering they would not amount to anything.

 

Those three Imran, Wasim and Waqar were ATG bowlers.Did the tamper yes off course they did but still no one can take away that greatness from them.

Inflate their avg by 5 points atleast...and thats where you end up with.

With Imran, I would rather bump the avg by 8-10, he benefitted almost entirely due to ball tempering. Waqar and Wasim lost that advantage by late 90s once Imran accepted.

 

Wasim still remained a potent bowler...and I wont debate that even without ball tempering he would avg around 25 across formats...which is amazing.

Waqar and Imran would fall down in late 20s to early 30s...tier below Shami, maybe around Umesh or Sirajs level.

[singhvivek141]

On 1/5/2026 at 10:28 PM, putrevus said:

Did Pakistani bowlers cheat and used bottle caps answer is yes but to attribute what they accomplished was due to bottle caps only is wrong.

You would be surprised to see how much a tempered ball will deviate in the air.

 

There are countless spells where even a loose cannon like Umesh Yadav used reverse swing to bamboozle the batters. Imagine doing the same with a tempered ball which starts to reverse after 10 overs itself (currently one has to wait for 35-40 overs).

 

 

[Rightarmfast]

While this thread was more about the speed, and not about the quality. But this point keeps coming up. So, just posting the stats of Waqar Younis over here. These stats dont prove that Srinath was a better fast bowler than Waqar. However, it does show how inflated Waqar's stats were owing to his performances against the minions. Look at this average against the top tier teams, and look at his average against- Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, and Sri Lanka. His stats against NZ was better when NZ toured Pakistan. 

I hope you check this @putrevus @tapandrun