Younis and Akram speed

[singhvivek141]

41 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Let me get this straight since he did not take  Ramesh's wicket in one test he played in that series, Waqar is not ATG bowler??

 

So he took 373 test wickets with old ball only and off only tailenders ?You really have some imagination.

 

FYI express fast bowlers like Waqar are supposed to get tail enders out.Plus he did alright with top batsman too.

 

Bro, please understand. Even if I ignore the fact that Waqar only played few test matches in India. The real blot on his career is his performance in Australia.
He played 7 frigging tests there, 7, not one not 2...it's SEVEN....and he has taken a grand total of 14 wickets. Avg of 40 and SR of 81...is that the performance you expect from an ATG ??

Compare it to Bumrah, his worst numbers are in NZ, where he has played only 2 tests....and there too he avgs 31. Waqar avgs 76.xx in India as a bowler, which ATG has such pathetic numbers ? Bumrah in Australia has an avg of 17 across 12 tests, that's what you call a freaking GOAT. Australia across the eras is head and shoulders above any other team in cricketing history, and Bumrah has done it's best against the best. Waqar failed there, not once, not twice... SEVEN times.
 

Edited July 8 by singhvivek141

[singhvivek141]

38 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

The thread has gone in 2 dif direction 1 ) waqar/wasim pace and 2) their quality.

 

every bowler will love to have extra zip/pace and bounce , ask any bowler when they though they when was their prime-- most will point out the time when they were at their fastest.

 

Waqar was v.fast there is no doubt about it, but he was nt shohib/lee/tait and now wood. These 3/4 are diff level in terms of pace. And their longevity with express pace or near express pace. There were no one before them and no one after them in terms of longevity of express/near express pace.

 

At high or v.high pace bowler does not have to have all the skill, bowlers can get wkt with jst pace, pace is a v.rare skill-set.. And once the pace goes down those similar skill-set doe not remain the same or their effectiveness is reduced.

 

 

As for waqar's record ppl can take it however they like it, he has one of best sr. 

 

Its just how cricket was is -- Murali's action was dodgy but his recorrds stands and may be considered best bowler of all times, same for sachin he played in Ind with v.lttle assistance for the bowler and comparatively smaller boundaries to Aus , Ashwin bowled on some of most spin friendly wkts in Ind. warner/gayle used bigger bats infact every 1 used bigger bats than what is permitted right now.

 

 

 

Topic was always about Pace...people started to bring in the performance.

My point is Srinath is faster than Waqar...there may have been some time when Waqar might have clocked higher speeds, coz he was part of Pak cricket since 1990s and Imran used to promote fast bowlers, so there was always a hyperbole.
India on the other hand never promotes it's fast bowlers, even now likes of Harsha calls Bumrah and Mayank a medium fast bowler. So imagine the situation in 1990s. Srinath was pretty rapid no matter which match you see off him.

Whenever in the same tournament Srinath and Waqar have played under speed guns, Srinath has outpaced Waqar. That doesn't mean Waqar was bowling at SHivam Dube or Bhuvi Kumar's pace, but Srinath was faster...even if I ignore the topics of his 156/157k deliveries...in 1999 ODI WC or in 2003 ODI WC, Srinath was quicker than Waqar.

Unless we somehow get a technology to measure speeds of the older matches accurately, this topic will stay afloat. Some says Waqar lost his pace after 1994, Srinath too lost his pace after 1997, yet he was able to clock 140s consistently (See the h/l of India vs England 2003 WC game, Srinath bowled consistently at 140s over after over).

Many bowlers in the past have regained their pace after stress fracture, Bumrah is a prime example. Why didn't Waqar get the pace back raises a question if he was always this quick.

[singhvivek141]

One more video of 1999 WC...though speeds weren't shown regularly.
First delivery was 88 mph or 141 kph, the 3rd of 4th delivery was pretty quick and easily above 90mph
Later, you can easily see Srinath wasnt bowling quick and hence pace was around 83-84 mph. Basically whenever he was bowling to Astle or Horne the in seam deliveries he bowled quick. But against lefties or when trying to bowl outswing he loses the pace as that wasn't his stock delivery.
 

 

[tapandrun]

1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

Topic was always about Pace...people started to bring in the performance.

My point is Srinath is faster than Waqar...there may have been some time when Waqar might have clocked higher speeds, coz he was part of Pak cricket since 1990s and Imran used to promote fast bowlers, so there was always a hyperbole.
India on the other hand never promotes it's fast bowlers, even now likes of Harsha calls Bumrah and Mayank a medium fast bowler. So imagine the situation in 1990s. Srinath was pretty rapid no matter which match you see off him.

Whenever in the same tournament Srinath and Waqar have played under speed guns, Srinath has outpaced Waqar. That doesn't mean Waqar was bowling at SHivam Dube or Bhuvi Kumar's pace, but Srinath was faster...even if I ignore the topics of his 156/157k deliveries...in 1999 ODI WC or in 2003 ODI WC, Srinath was quicker than Waqar.

Unless we somehow get a technology to measure speeds of the older matches accurately, this topic will stay afloat. Some says Waqar lost his pace after 1994, Srinath too lost his pace after 1997, yet he was able to clock 140s consistently (See the h/l of India vs England 2003 WC game, Srinath bowled consistently at 140s over after over).

Many bowlers in the past have regained their pace after stress fracture, Bumrah is a prime example. Why didn't Waqar get the pace back raises a question if he was always this quick.

 

Yes there are no many evidences of the exact pace of bowlers of the past, either you go by what was reported back then or agree with words of batters who faced those bowlers. 

 

Think universally most batters of that time would have said or agrees that waqar was the fastest and we have few clicking as well of his speeds being shown on telecast of him touching 151 kmph, <-- Total cup Pak Vs SA.

 

During that time every batter will either say waqar or donald.

 

Srinath may be brisk one game /1 series but there is not much and there is no point. Same thing if mayank does not bowl 150-155 kmph in future there is no point of him categorizing in same bracket as Akthar/Tait/Lee/Wood.

 

Many pak players says Zahid may have been faster than Akthar , may be may be not for certain time but once Akthar broke in 150-160 kmph bracket certainly Zahid was no where close.

 

Again its not necessary that if a bowler who came in as express/near-express always remained express , a lot of bowler may have out pace a bowler who once was express pace. Sustaining 138-143 kmph (+/- 3kmph) over a lifetime easy but sustaining 145-155 kmph over lifetime is impossible (except akthar/lee/tait/ now wood) 

 

Kemar roach when 1st debuted he was bowling 145-150 kmph in tests and after back injury he is been bowling sub 135 kmph most of the times.

 

As for why waqar didnt regain pace, there can be many reasons, the medical knowledge/support etc.. were not that good in crkt, recovery methodology was not defined.

After injury he may have not tried to regain the pace quickly and if bowlers do not gain same pace back it does not come back, and things can only worsen from there on.

Examplw --Notrje he was bowling 150-155/156 kmph  got injured didnt gain that kind of pace again, when ever he tries to go faster now gets injured again.

 

Pace vs longevity trap-- This is v.common after injury many players look for longevity, even till today ind crkt system prefers high pace and effectiveness over longevity. If bowler gets injured 1st remedy in Ind crkt is to cut pace, it was same previously as well. and previously once the bowler who had made name for them selves were treated with respect by opp. batters would hardly target them , only sine t20s it became fair game to target any1.

 

Bowler like Starc where not express , but with time they improved speed and became express and still bowls 145 kmph, wood was not express till v.recently he added pace and express pace in his 30s <-- this has never been done.

 

Diff bowler goes through diff life cycle , nehra once touched ~150 kmph does not mean he was bowling 150 kmph of correct/incorrect reading ,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rightarmfast]

Although, I have no doubt Zahid would have been quicker during his initial matches, but why is it that these Pakistanis, when they come under speed radar, the reading reads different? Zahid was proclaimed as being quicker than Shoaib, however, look at the last bit in this video where the speed gun was functioning. He is clocking speeds which are no more than medium fast! 

Myth busted. Not so different than Waqar or Wasim. They were all quick, but for a very short time!