Younis and Akram speed

[Rightarmfast]

13 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Srinath had his limitations, he was fast, at times express, but his biggest issue was his inability to hit the stumps.
He often bowled on the half hearted short of length (like Umesh) and hence struggled to either bounce the batters or to pin them down in front of stumps.
Umesh while had a killer reverse swing, Srinath's I don't remember having that (wc to be corrected). He was mostly a Ishant type bowler, minus the bounce. 

And he bowled short because the Indian pitches in 80's and 90's were notoriously dead. So, while the pitches assisted spinners, for fast bowlers it was hell. If the fast bowlers in domestic matches tried bowling fuller, the batsmen would take them to cleaners. 

Hence, most Indian fast and medium fast bowlers of that era used to bowl short of a length. 

 

This was an issue created by the system. 

And Kapil did nothing to correct, or guide Srinath when Srinath was young.

[putrevus]

2 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Akram operated around 135-145? When?

When Srinath was bowling 150 mile thunderbolts.

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

When Srinath was bowling 150 mile thunderbolts.

145 was Akram's quickest.

 

He generally bowled 130-140.

Srinath was easily 133-143...quickest around 149.x or 150.

 

Srinath outpaced both Waqar and Akram in 2003 ODI WC...and this is not based on one match but in the entire tournament. Shows how much he was underrated in terms of pace.

 

And mind you, this pace and the 149k he generated in 1999, post his shoulder injury of 1997. So that means he would be either same or maybe even more faster in his pre-injury days. Just that we will never know the truth.

[tapandrun]

4 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Not anyone's fault if you started watching cricket yesterday bro. 

I watched the 99 World Cup match live, and there were multiple commentators talking about Srinath's pace. And it was officially registered at 149.6k's, in the record book. 

 

And yes, one more thing, a day prior to speed gun being introduced in the 99WC ( it was introduced in the Aus vs Ind match), the articles ( from ICC and UK newspapers) quoted that it was expected for Srinath to clock anywhere between 90mph- 94/95mph as top speed, as that was his regular top speeds. 

 

As far as 157 delivery, it was a match against Zimbabwe in 1997 during India's tour of South Africa. It was the 2nd ODI against Zimbabwe. 

 

@Trichromatic Yes, he did hurry batsmen quite a bit. Even as late as in early 2000's, he was still sharp. And as @express bowling mentioned, not just hurry, he hurt quite a bit of batsmen. 

 

What noone in this thread is talking about is the fact that while every express bowler during Srinath's time had a quality bowler supporting from the other end, Srinath had none who could support him. The only decent support he got was in as late as 1998 when Harvinder Singh came, and 99 when Ajit Agarkar came. Both of them were sharp. 

So, unlike other express bowlers, whose role was to terrorize the batsmen and go all out, Srinath's role was not just to get wickets, but also to contain the runs!

 

And you expect a bowler to give his optimum with such little assistance? And he still bowled quite fast. If he had Shami, Bumrah, Siraj, or Ishant from the other end, he would have been collosal.  

 

Yes 149 kmph is official as mentioned, nehra also bowled 149 kmph in but that does not make him 145 kmph, it was one of thing.

 

And claims of 157 kmph vs Zim ?? with match benoni ??? do not think he was bowling quick that day. All mentioned was some SA players thought Srinath was bowling quicker than donald and kulsner that series in 97. 

As far as I know the claims of 157 kmph comes from some pdf which claims some Ind new paper with an interview with then zim captain cambell he metioned that he clocked 157 kmph but which news paper, all this is based on some pdf As far as I know.

 

There are videos of Srinath bowling in 1997 do not think he looks like bowling 145+ kmph, again I can not spot the pace just by looking at videos but he does not look 145+ kmph fast

 

The other thing of those claim, the speedometer which were used in SA for domestic broadcast were some locally calibrated radar, not sure those were exactly accurate.

 

 

[Rightarmfast]

10 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

 

Yes 149 kmph is official as mentioned, nehra also bowled 149 kmph in but that does not make him 145 kmph, it was one of thing.

 

And claims of 157 kmph vs Zim ?? with match benoni ??? do not think he was bowling quick that day. All mentioned was some SA players thought Srinath was bowling quicker than donald and kulsner that series in 97. 

As far as I know the claims of 157 kmph comes from some pdf which claims some Ind new paper with an interview with then zim captain cambell he metioned that he clocked 157 kmph but which news paper, all this is based on some pdf As far as I know.

 

There are videos of Srinath bowling in 1997 do not think he looks like bowling 145+ kmph, again I can not spot the pace just by looking at videos but he does not look 145+ kmph fast

 

The other thing of those claim, the speedometer which were used in SA for domestic broadcast were some locally calibrated radar, not sure those were exactly accurate.

 

 

I had gotten that article in 2000, when I was working for the Times of India. And it was not a pdf, the interview was on Zimbabwe Cricket's official site. 

 

"

There are videos of Srinath bowling in 1997 do not think he looks like bowling 145+ kmph, again I can not spot the pace just by looking at videos but he does not look 145+ kmph fast

 

The other thing of those claim, the speedometer which were used in SA for domestic broadcast were some locally calibrated radar, not sure those were exactly accurate."

 

Yet there are multiple videos of Waqar Younis and Allan Donald wherein they look visibly bowling at about 150k's, yet the speedometer registered only 130k's!

I wonder how you are gauging through looking at a few old videos. 

 

Speed calcuation is not rocket science. The technology has been there for decades. Why would the speedometer in South Africa be defective, but magically be 'effective' in 1970's when Thommo and the gang were being measured?

 

 

 

[tapandrun]

29 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

I had gotten that article in 2000, when I was working for the Times of India. And it was not a pdf, the interview was on Zimbabwe Cricket's official site. 

 

"

There are videos of Srinath bowling in 1997 do not think he looks like bowling 145+ kmph, again I can not spot the pace just by looking at videos but he does not look 145+ kmph fast

 

The other thing of those claim, the speedometer which were used in SA for domestic broadcast were some locally calibrated radar, not sure those were exactly accurate."

 

Yet there are multiple videos of Waqar Younis and Allan Donald wherein they look visibly bowling at about 150k's, yet the speedometer registered only 130k's!

I wonder how you are gauging through looking at a few old videos. 

 

Speed calcuation is not rocket science. The technology has been there for decades. Why would the speedometer in South Africa be defective, but magically be 'effective' in 1970's when Thommo and the gang were being measured?

 

 

 

All the claims so far have been secondary not telling the correct source 

 

Till v.recently ppl argued that speedometers were not showing correct speeds in Ind domestic crickets, The para above you yourself saying bowling 130 kmph and looking like 150 kmph. 

 

The Thompson speed being measured, if you are talking about that video where in most of the fast bowlers of that appeared ??

I am not sure what speeds are they talking about is it the release speed or something else. But it was a experimental set-up. I have mentioned this how that works.

 

It a rudimentary but a v.effective way of finding speeds of a small projectiles. 

Again I donot what speed they measured. but how that experiment works is , tht checked board has squares with known dimensions and you calculate how many sq it passed in certain time and you calculate d/t.

 

And I never said the claims on those bowers speeds were true

 

 

 

Edited November 6 by tapandrun

[Rightarmfast]

59 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

All the claims so far have been secondary not telling the correct source 

 

Till v.recently ppl argued that speedometers were not showing correct speeds in Ind domestic crickets, The para above you yourself saying bowling 130 kmph and looking like 150 kmph. 

 

The Thompson speed being measured, if you are talking about that video where in most of the fast bowlers of that appeared ??

I am not sure what speeds are they talking about is it the release speed or something else. But it was a experimental set-up. I have mentioned this how that works.

 

It a rudimentary but a v.effective way of finding speeds of a small projectiles. 

Again I donot what speed they measured. but how that experiment works is , tht checked board has squares with known dimensions and you calculate how many sq it passed in certain time and you calculate d/t.

 

And I never said the claims on those bowers speeds were true

 

 

 

I was saying, just watching old videos is not conclusive for getting the right pace. Waqar and Donald were actually bowling in 130's, when they looked bowling above 140's. That was largely due to the run up, length and bounce. 

 

"Till v.recently ppl argued that speedometers were not showing correct speeds in Ind domestic crickets"

 

How come bowlers like Umesh in his heydays, Bumrah clock similar speeds anywhere across the globe? As far as I recall, any match always has 3 meters and either the average, or the best caliberated speed is shown. 

 

 

 

[putrevus]

2 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

145 was Akram's quickest.

 

He generally bowled 130-140.

Srinath was easily 133-143...quickest around 149.x or 150.

 

Srinath outpaced both Waqar and Akram in 2003 ODI WC...and this is not based on one match but in the entire tournament. Shows how much he was underrated in terms of pace.

 

And mind you, this pace and the 149k he generated in 1999, post his shoulder injury of 1997. So that means he would be either same or maybe even more faster in his pre-injury days. Just that we will never know the truth.

2003 world cup was last  for all of them.So it really did not matter who bowled faster then.

 

No  in general Srinath's average speed was not higher than Wasim forget Waqar pre injury.

 

As fast bowlers it is not comparision between them.They were far superior fast bowlers than Srinath.

Edited November 6 by putrevus

[Suhaan]

2 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

I had gotten that article in 2000, when I was working for the Times of India. And it was not a pdf, the interview was on Zimbabwe Cricket's official site. 

 

"

There are videos of Srinath bowling in 1997 do not think he looks like bowling 145+ kmph, again I can not spot the pace just by looking at videos but he does not look 145+ kmph fast

 

The other thing of those claim, the speedometer which were used in SA for domestic broadcast were some locally calibrated radar, not sure those were exactly accurate."

 

Yet there are multiple videos of Waqar Younis and Allan Donald wherein they look visibly bowling at about 150k's, yet the speedometer registered only 130k's!

I wonder how you are gauging through looking at a few old videos. 

 

Speed calcuation is not rocket science. The technology has been there for decades. Why would the speedometer in South Africa be defective, but magically be 'effective' in 1970's when Thommo and the gang were being measured?

 

 

 

This article was with cricinfo too not long ago,not aware if they have lost it between 

[singhvivek141]

29 minutes ago, putrevus said:

2003 world cup was last  for all of them.So it really did not matter who bowled faster then.

 

No  in general Srinath's average speed was not higher than Wasim forget Waqar pre injury.

 

As fast bowlers it is not comparision between them.They were far superior fast bowlers than Srinath.

 

It doesnt matter if it was their final WC...pace will be determined based on the evidence only.

 

Wasims quickest pace was 145, he was as quick as RP Singh who too has clocked 144 at his peak but was in general a 130-140k pacer. This doesnt make Wasim any less bowler than he already is.

 

Waqar wasnt the only bowler in the history that got injured. So let's not bring in as if he was some mythical demon before injury. Waqar was heavily dependent on ball tempering and his performance nosedived when ICC became strict on ball tempering post Imran Khan's acceptance.

 

Srinath too had a career threatening should injury, which lead to dip in his pace. Yet...he clocked 149 at the age of 29-30 & 143k at the age of 33-34 post his retirement.

[bsriharsha]

3 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Srinath outpaced both Waqar and Akram in 2003 ODI WC...and this is not based on one match but in the entire tournament. Shows how much he was underrated in terms of pace.

Waqar dropped down a fair bit in pace by then. He was really express before his injury.

[bsriharsha]

Nothing to deny Srinath and his pace. But even at Srinath's best , he was still a slower bowler than at Waqar's best 

[Rightarmfast]

18 minutes ago, bsriharsha said:

Waqar dropped down a fair bit in pace by then. He was really express before his injury.

By injury you mean, 92/93. So he bowled fast between 88/89- 92/93. 

[bsriharsha]

12 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

By injury you mean, 92/93. So he bowled fast between 88/89- 92/93. 

Wasn't his problem he was injured. Before his injury , he was basically Marshall / Steyn / bumrah level goated.

[singhvivek141]

40 minutes ago, bsriharsha said:

Waqar dropped down a fair bit in pace by then. He was really express before his injury.

I have started watching Waqar from 1994 onwards, he played rarely against India and even when he did, his performance was abysmal and looked as quick as Umar Gul.

[bsriharsha]

6 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

I have started watching Waqar from 1994 onwards, he played rarely against India and even when he did, his performance was abysmal and looked as quick as Umar Gul.

Waqar at his peak was a different beast mama. 

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

It doesnt matter if it was their final WC...pace will be determined based on the evidence only.

 

Wasims quickest pace was 145, he was as quick as RP Singh who too has clocked 144 at his peak but was in general a 130-140k pacer. This doesnt make Wasim any less bowler than he already is.

 

Waqar wasnt the only bowler in the history that got injured. So let's not bring in as if he was some mythical demon before injury. Waqar was heavily dependent on ball tempering and his performance nosedived when ICC became strict on ball tempering post Imran Khan's acceptance.

 

Srinath too had a career threatening should injury, which lead to dip in his pace. Yet...he clocked 149 at the age of 29-30 & 143k at the age of 33-34 post his retirement.

You want to give medal to Srinath for beating Akram and Waqar in 2003 world cup go for it.

 

Wasim was like Marshall or Steyn, he could crank up speed when he wanted but for most part operated within himself.

 

Waqar had stress fracture, even Dennis Lillee who had the same injury became medium pacer after his injury.Srinath had rotator cuff injury so not comparable.It is admirable Srinath after his rotator cuff injury came back strong .

 

While I agree they were doing ball tampering and had help from home cooked umpires, they were still far better bowlers than Srinath.

 

Just like Imran was a better bowler than Kapil with or without ball tampering but as allrounder and  batsman Kapil was better.Kapil was far superior as he could change the match on its head by himself which Imran in his life time could not do.

 

Clocking 149 few times does not make anyone express fast bowler.

Edited November 6 by putrevus

[bsriharsha]

A simple Google search mama. 

 

Waqar pre his injury. 

[bsriharsha]

We are talking of Steyn / Marshall and now Bumrah. Waqar pre injury was on that level. 

[putrevus]

29 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

I have started watching Waqar from 1994 onwards, he played rarely against India and even when he did, his performance was abysmal and looked as quick as Umar Gul.

Waqar hardly played against India but it does not make him inferior bowler.India did not play Pakistan for a decade from 1989-1999, that was like whole career. Waqar was hammered in 1996 world cup too by Jadeja.