Younis and Akram speed

[tapandrun]

12 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

 

May have touched 145 kph? Any fast bowler has bowled faster than that.

Have posted video of waqar frm total cup vs SA he clocked 150 kmph.

 

[tapandrun]

7 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

To be fair, in his own words I have heard Akram say that at his peak he would have bowled between 145-150. But I guess he touched 145ish on very rare occassions. 

He had reoccurring groin injury, do not think he would have consistently and sustained such pace.

Plus he kept adding skills and it causes dip in pace as bowler have to change a lot of thing to add new skills.

 

And once some1 had skill set of Akram there was no need to push the body every match with diabetes. Plus its nt like how its today that once the bowler has made his name no opp. side will go after them and they can bowl some inexpensive overs and then build on it and take wkts.

 

[Ultimate_Game]

1 hour ago, Ranvir said:

I don't know what's so hard for you to understand, the title of this thread is 'Younis and Akram speed'. I'm only talking about speed, nothing else.

 

Waqar at his peak and before his back injury was fast and 150+. Wasim Akram was closer to high 140s at his peak similar to Shaheen Afridi's pace. On an average they bowled mostly high 130s to early 140s.

[express bowling]

Thing is ..... nobody will ever know the exact speeds the " Pre-1999 pacers " bowled at day in and day out. It's all speculation. 

 

Some high speeds in some series made headlines. But those were rarely the general speeds of those pacers.

 

Generally speaking, in the pre-1999 era, 

 

....  Pacers with hostile bouncers were considered fast.

 

....  Pacers who got good carry to the keeper were considered fast. Pacers who got low bounce were considered slower unless they had great yorkers which sent the stumps flying.

 

....  Pacers from countries, which produced low average pacers and strike bowlers, were considered faster.

 

....  Quicker pacers, from countries which marketed their pacers as fast, were known as fast bowlers. And this is a reality even now.

Edited December 15, 2025 by express bowling

[tapandrun]

43 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Thing is ..... nobody will ever know the exact speeds the " Pre-1999 pacers " bowled at day in and day out. It's all speculation. 

 

Some high speeds in some series made headlines. But those were rarely the general speeds of those pacers.

 

Generally speaking, in the pre-1999 era, 

 

....  Pacers with hostile bouncers were considered fast.

 

....  Pacers who got good carry to the keeper were considered fast. Pacers who got low bounce were considered slower unless they had great yorkers which sent the stumps flying.

 

....  Pacers from countries, which produced low average pacers and strike bowlers were considered faster.

 

....  Quicker pacers, from countries which marketed their pacers as fast, were known as fast bowlers. And this is a reality even now.

 

The thing to be considered is every fast bowler may have touched v.high speeds (145+ kmph) here or there were they actually that fast through out ??

Would say :: Wood , Akthar, Lee and Tait are diff. category and no1 ever came close they are express -bowlers

Rest who came close are near express :: Styen, Fiddle, Bond, Waqar, Donald (at his peak), rauf

There was no incentive back when there were no speedometer , if some1 was in good rhythm and injury free may have bowled v.fast.

 

Lee and Akthar talks about the internal competition they had, it was because they can refer their pace and other's pace.

 

Bowler these days says I want to bowl 145+ kmph or 150 kmph, if they are not able to find out what they are bowling how would they know what speeds they are bowling and if they have to increase the pace. Ad one point a bowler can not push any harder and is stuck thats where akthar also talks about how gym helped him.

 

Rp singh touched 149 kmph, Ishant touched 150 kmph, Thakur also touched 147-148 kmph.

Does that make any1 claim they were bowling really fast ?? are they 145+ kmph bowlers ???

 

Claims on hawk-eye is that the system can be as accurate as 0.1 kmph diff. Do not know how correct those claims are  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2025 by tapandrun

[Trichromatic]

What's the obsession with release speed so much when it is just a useless metric?

[Rightarmfast]

16 hours ago, tapandrun said:

He had reoccurring groin injury, do not think he would have consistently and sustained such pace.

Plus he kept adding skills and it causes dip in pace as bowler have to change a lot of thing to add new skills.

 

And once some1 had skill set of Akram there was no need to push the body every match with diabetes. Plus its nt like how its today that once the bowler has made his name no opp. side will go after them and they can bowl some inexpensive overs and then build on it and take wkts.

 

Adding skills should not result in lowering of pace. Plus, Akram was great at swing from the outset. When did he start getting the groin injury? He did have diabetes, thats for sure. Wonder how much that affects the pace. 

He was called fast mostly due to the impression he gave and that was more due to the fast arm action and the deadly bowling he would do. 

 

[Rightarmfast]

13 hours ago, tapandrun said:

 

The thing to be considered is every fast bowler may have touched v.high speeds (145+ kmph) here or there were they actually that fast through out ??

Would say :: Wood , Akthar, Lee and Tait are diff. category and no1 ever came close they are express -bowlers

Rest who came close are near express :: Styen, Fiddle, Bond, Waqar, Donald (at his peak), rauf

There was no incentive back when there were no speedometer , if some1 was in good rhythm and injury free may have bowled v.fast.

 

Lee and Akthar talks about the internal competition they had, it was because they can refer their pace and other's pace.

 

Bowler these days says I want to bowl 145+ kmph or 150 kmph, if they are not able to find out what they are bowling how would they know what speeds they are bowling and if they have to increase the pace. Ad one point a bowler can not push any harder and is stuck thats where akthar also talks about how gym helped him.

 

Rp singh touched 149 kmph, Ishant touched 150 kmph, Thakur also touched 147-148 kmph.

Does that make any1 claim they were bowling really fast ?? are they 145+ kmph bowlers ???

 

Claims on hawk-eye is that the system can be as accurate as 0.1 kmph diff. Do not know how correct those claims are  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Stadiums did use to have speedometer. Although, they did not telecast the speeds on television like they do now. I remember seeing Kapil being clocked at 115 or 118'ish when I was a kid. They showed it in the stadium. 

Waqar and all were clocked in England at times, and mostly the stadium speedometer showed them around 135'ish. Had posted a video earlier too. 

 

Shoaib was the biggest factor in late 90's when people started noticing numbers. He was so fast that he became the benchmark for speed. It was more due to Shoaib that WC99 officially kept the speedometer. Only to find out that Srinath was the 2nd fastest in the world. 

 

[Rightarmfast]

Look at this video from 90/91. Certainly Wasim was young then and most probably at his quickest. But look at how quick he looks visually. Not more than a medium fast. Now, this could be an off day, but how would one know?

 

 

[express bowling]

48 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Look at this video from 90/91. Certainly Wasim was young then and most probably at his quickest. But look at how quick he looks visually. Not more than a medium fast. Now, this could be an off day, but how would one know?

 

 

 

 

 

This looks nothing more than 130 k to 137 k.

 

 

[Rightarmfast]

2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

 

This looks nothing more than 130 k to 137 k.

 

 

Exactly! 

[Suhaan]

6 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

 

This looks nothing more than 130 k to 137 k.

 

 

Looks 125-132

[Suhaan]

 

[Trichromatic]

14 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

 

This looks nothing more than 130 k to 137 k.

 

 

 

You do realize that it's impossible to tell that.

 

You're just making random guess. Ther is no way a person can differentiate between 137 and 142 delivery with video.

[Trichromatic]

In practical terms, no—most humans cannot reliably differentiate between a 137 kph and a 142 kph release speed from video alone, unless the video includes measurement aids or is analyzed frame-by-frame.

Below is a precise breakdown.

---

1. Magnitude of the Difference

• 137 kph vs 142 kph = 5 kph difference (~3.6%)
• Over a typical pitch length (e.g., cricket ~20.12 m):
  • 137 kph ≈ 0.528 s
  • 142 kph ≈ 0.510 s
  • Difference ≈ 18 milliseconds

This time delta is below conscious human perception in dynamic motion.

---

2. Human Visual and Cognitive Limits

• Human reaction time to visual stimuli: ~200–250 ms
• Temporal discrimination threshold (without tools): ~30–50 ms
• Result: an 18 ms difference is not perceptually distinguishable

Humans infer speed contextually (effort, run-up, bounce, batter reaction), not by directly perceiving velocity.

---

3. Video Constraints

Typical Video

• 30 fps → frame every 33 ms
• 60 fps → frame every 16.7 ms

At:

• 30 fps: the entire speed difference may occur within one frame
• 60 fps: borderline detectable only via frame counting, not visually

Without overlays or timestamps, the eye cannot judge this difference.

---

4. When Differentiation Is Possible

Humans can differentiate only indirectly if:

• Speed overlay is shown (broadcast graphics)
• Radar gun data is displayed
• Side-by-side slow-motion with frame counts
• Trained analysts using software (Kinovea, Dartfish, Hawk-Eye)

Even elite athletes do not consciously perceive a 5 kph difference; they adapt subconsciously through motor learning.

---

5. Why People Think They Can

Common false cues:

• Bowler effort or action
• Batter being late/early
• Commentary bias
• Prior knowledge of bowler’s typical speeds

These are heuristics, not perception.

---

Bottom Line

• Visually from video: No, humans cannot reliably distinguish 137 vs 142 kph.
• With tools or overlays: Yes.
• By “feel” during play: Players may adapt, but cannot consciously label the difference.

If you are asking this in the context of sports analytics, broadcast tech, or AI-based speed estimation, I can explain how systems reliably detect such differences and what accuracy is realistically achievable.

[Trichromatic]

And it's even more astonishing that people are predicting release speed, not even avg speed by looking at video. Release speed which is measured for just first 10-20 ms which is much less than temporal discrimination threshold of 30-50 ms.

[Trichromatic]

16 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Stadiums did use to have speedometer. Although, they did not telecast the speeds on television like they do now. I remember seeing Kapil being clocked at 115 or 118'ish when I was a kid. They showed it in the stadium. 

Waqar and all were clocked in England at times, and mostly the stadium speedometer showed them around 135'ish. Had posted a video earlier too. 

 

Shoaib was the biggest factor in late 90's when people started noticing numbers. He was so fast that he became the benchmark for speed. It was more due to Shoaib that WC99 officially kept the speedometer. Only to find out that Srinath was the 2nd fastest in the world. 

 

 

Cricket wasnt measuring release speed 1980s and early 1990s.

 

Release speed may easily differ with avg speed by 10 kph.

[Rightarmfast]

2 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

 

Cricket wasnt measuring release speed 1980s and early 1990s.

 

Release speed may easily differ with avg speed by 10 kph.

Fair enough! I havent gotten into such nitty gritties. But I doubt Kapil would have bowled at 125-128 in early 90's, when I saw those speeds. When I think of Kapil during fag end of his career, a speed of 110-115 seems more plausible to me.

[singhvivek141]

3 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

 

You do realize that it's impossible to tell that.

 

You're just making random guess. Ther is no way a person can differentiate between 137 and 142 delivery with video.

 

One cant accurately, but its enough to indicate whether a bowler is fast or fast medium or medium fast.

 

Those who are relying on late reaction from the batters...even Zimbooks were late against the 127kph thunderbolts of Unadkut, while better batters can send even the 145kph deliveries of Mitchell Starc into the terrace of stadium.

 

Taking a rwcent example of 3 bowlers in SMAT. Most of the folks predicted that Gurnoor was bowling 135-140, Ashok maybe 140-145 while Nagarkoti, despite the reputation was bowling around 135 or below...

 

Under speedometer, Nagarkoti was hovering 130-137, Gurnoor 136-143 & Ashok 142-150...so in theory you can say that people were indeed off by 5ks...but they were able to gauge who is bowling at what pace.

[Trichromatic]

14 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

One cant accurately, but its enough to indicate whether a bowler is fast or fast medium or medium fast.

 

Those who are relying on late reaction from the batters...even Zimbooks were late against the 127kph thunderbolts of Unadkut, while better batters can send even the 145kph deliveries of Mitchell Starc into the terrace of stadium.

 

Taking a rwcent example of 3 bowlers in SMAT. Most of the folks predicted that Gurnoor was bowling 135-140, Ashok maybe 140-145 while Nagarkoti, despite the reputation was bowling around 135 or below...

 

Under speedometer, Nagarkoti was hovering 130-137, Gurnoor 136-143 & Ashok 142-150...so in theory you can say that people were indeed off by 5ks...but they were able to gauge who is bowling at what pace.

 

How can you tell difference between fast medium and fast when difference is 10 kph that too with release speed which is measured first few metres?