Jansen taking wickets with bounce on a flat deck .... while our pacers, despite having pace, are unwilling to use bounce as a weapon from 2023 onwards and look ineffective if the ball is not moving

[express bowling]

10 hours ago, maniac said:

Jansen is a special cricketer. A potential ATG. Sorry to disappoint folks but Bumrah, Siraj as bowlers might be ahead of Jansen but as a bowler alone he is way better than Harshit Rana, Prasidh, Akashdeep etc leave alone our bench strength. We don’t have a cricketer of that quality.

 

i mean we play a limited player like Dube (who has done well in his role) for hitting ability, Jansen has 5 times more ability.

 

there isn’t anyone on our horizon even in the same ball park.

 

10 hours ago, maniac said:

 

to put it in context- a left armer  who can touch 150 + super athletic fielder + a beastly hitter. Don’t  think we have any 

 

 

This thread is not about the all-round ability of Jansen. 

 

And he bowled just one ball at 140 k in this innings. Average speed of 133 k. Forget 150 k.

 

This thread is about the willingness to use bouncers and rising short balls as a tactics to either set up batters or to take wickets. 

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Lord said:

 

Ishant was 6'4'' apparently. He could get bounce when he was fast

 

Ishant is still 6'5"  

[Lord]

4 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

 

This thread is not about the all-round ability of Jansen. 

 

And he bowled just one ball at 140 k in this innings. Average speed of 133 k. Forget 150 k.

 

This thread is about the willingness to use bouncers and rising short balls as a tactics to either set up batters or to take wickets. 

 

Siraj should be doing this

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Lord said:

 

How tall is Prasidh?

 

Prasidh gets steep bounce despite being 6'3". Due to his high arm action, air speed and seam position. 

 

His problem is lack of objectivity. He does not know what to do when.

[express bowling]

5 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Siraj should be doing this

 

Bumrah should try 1 bumper an over too. That is not too taxing. And this would make his good length balls more effective.

 

He is much quicker and more bouncy than Siraj.

 

And we need a third pacer who will be used as an enforcer on flatter tracks and outside Asia. Like Gurnoor, Harshit or Prasidh. Bumrah played this role from 2017 to 2022.

Edited November 25, 2025 by express bowling

[Lord]

6 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Prasidh gets steep bounce despite being 6'3". Due to his high arm action, air speed and seam position. 

 

His problem is lack of objectivity. He does not know what to do when.

 

that can be learnt by playing regularly with Boom. Ishant had this problem too.

[maniac]

11 hours ago, Suhaan said:

Lol,when did you see him touch 150 

Firstly you missed the larger point.

 

i am sure I saw him bowl 145+ in some spells in SA but may be I am mistaken.

 

having said that the point is- Jansen is not a trundler. He has pace, swing, seam, bounce, left arm angle. Keeping his allround skills on the side for a while like being a world class athlete and batting ability, still one must be delusional to think our bench, junior cricket, backups are anywhere near that quality. Only fast bowlers in India better than Jansen right now are Bumrah and Siraj. Period!!!

 

that’s the point 

[Suhaan]

23 minutes ago, maniac said:

Firstly you missed the larger point.

 

i am sure I saw him bowl 145+ in some spells in SA but may be I am mistaken.

 

having said that the point is- Jansen is not a trundler. He has pace, swing, seam, bounce, left arm angle. Keeping his allround skills on the side for a while like being a world class athlete and batting ability, still one must be delusional to think our bench, junior cricket, backups are anywhere near that quality. Only fast bowlers in India better than Jansen right now are Bumrah and Siraj. Period!!!

 

that’s the point 

Not saying he's not an athelete,he's

But he has bowled over 140 in little occasions hes not your out and out pacer

He's a very handy bowling AR,but thing is SA were already in drivers seat,his innings was good but nothing like 'back to the wall'inninhs

This is our weakest phase,admitted it,and have also acknowledged the fact way before you had mentioned it here,our pace attack is regressing and none of the newcomers have given confidence to us and selectors but we also know Indian pacers take hell lot of time to figure out things 

Umesh took good 4-5 years to develop,Ishant even more,Shami was always class but they all got their acts together under Arun ,who knew what is pace bowling and is all about in all conditions 

What else can we do ,we can only hope for good from the guys who come in ,but surely won't benefit playing Kambojs and the likes

Need to get guys like Simran,Harshit,Gurnoor,Apple Tom,Ashok Sharma more games

Won't compare them with a seasoned campaigner like Jenson,they won't be that good but can't dismiss them either

We have never stooped this low ever, acknowledged again,hope things get better

 

 

Doesn't mean if Umesh,Ishant,Shami have left the scene no one will ever come good or even better

Ladki ,bus, train aur (cricket)khiladi aate hain aur jaate hain,lets hope you and me again get lots of things to cheer here on Cricket Talk

Edited November 25, 2025 by Suhaan

[Gollum]

Generational talent. Just 25 yo, and will most probably get MOTS in a historic series win in India, elite company there.  

 

Back him to get 300+ test wickets at sub 25 average, and 5-6 100s. This era's Shaun Pollock, different strengths of course. 

Edited November 25, 2025 by Gollum

[maniac]

22 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Not saying he's not an athelete,he's

But he has bowled over 140 in little occasions hes not your out and out pacer

He's a very handy bowling AR,but thing is SA were already in drivers seat,his innings was good but nothing like 'back to the wall'inninhs

This is our weakest phase,admitted it,and have also acknowledged the fact way before you had mentioned it here,our pace attack is regressing and none of the newcomers have given confidence to us and selectors but we also know Indian pacers take hell lot of time to figure out things 

Umesh took good 4-5 years to develop,Ishant even more,Shami was always class but they all got their acts together under Arun ,who knew what is pace bowling and is all about in all conditions 

What else can we do ,we can only hope for good from the guys who come in ,but surely won't benefit playing Kambojs and the likes

Need to get guys like Simran,Harshit,Gurnoor,Apple Tom,Ashok Sharma more games

Won't compare them with a seasoned campaigner like Jenson,they won't be that good but can't dismiss them either

We have never stooped this low ever, acknowledged again,hope things get better

 

 

Doesn't mean if Umesh,Ishant,Shami have left the scene no one will ever come good or even better

Ladki ,bus, train aur (cricket)khiladi aate hain aur jaate hain,lets hope you and me again get lots of things to cheer here on Cricket Talk

there is no guarantee Jansen will sustain either and I am sure there will be some talent from India that will come and perform out of nowhere but as of now we don’t have such talents.

 

at the junior level or backups level  apart from Vaibhav there is not a single talent I am excited about.

 

Mayank Yadav was the closest but I think he is also cooked now. Have a feeling he will comeback as a line and length trundler in 130-138 range.

Edited November 25, 2025 by maniac

[Lord]

28 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Generational talent. Just 25 yo, and will most probably get MOTS in a historic series win in India, elite company there.  

 

Back him to get 300+ test wickets at sub 25 average, and 5-6 100s. This era's Shaun Pollock, different strengths of course. 

 

This series might be turning point for him. Earlier he was support to Rabada and didn't bat confidently. Here he has stepped up bigtime

[Gollum]

Just now, Lord said:

 

This series might be turning point for him. Earlier he was support to Rabada and didn't bat confidently. Here he has stepped up bigtime

Muthusamy has also grown a lot in last 2 series. Saffers have unearthed a lot of talent, have great bench strength, and should easily qualify to another WTC F.

[Lord]

Just now, Gollum said:

Muthusamy has also grown a lot in last 2 series. Saffers have unearthed a lot of talent, have great bench strength, and should easily qualify to another WTC F.

 

Muthusamy and Harmer will only play in Asia though.

[maniac]

4 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

This series might be turning point for him. Earlier he was support to Rabada and didn't bat confidently. Here he has stepped up bigtime

He has been evolving slowly over a period of time like most prodigy players. Batsmen usually adapt immediately and then improve but usually bowlers evolve gradually. Even before this, he has given incredible match winning performances in between.  
 

he was player of the tournament in SAT20, won man of the match in Srilanka as well and I have seen him play some out of the world shots with the bat. Fielding- the guy has hands like buckets lol. 
 

anyone who didn’t pay attention missed out. He is improving leaps and bounds every series.

 

 

Edited November 25, 2025 by maniac

[express bowling]

Bumrah  gets 2 wickets with bounce in this over.

 

This is what he is what he is capable of ... accurate and quick rising short balls that hurry on to you. But he does not use it often enough in the last 3 years.

 

Hope he uses bounce more often from now on. 

[cowboysfan]

very good observation from OP,seems we have completely given up on short pitch bowling,i wonder if its due to our doofus bowling coach.

[tapandrun]

19 minutes ago, cowboysfan said:

very good observation from OP,seems we have completely given up on short pitch bowling,i wonder if its due to our doofus bowling coach.

bhumrah's back issues, shami used to surprise with bouncers too but he was also playing with injury till the wc. 

siraj was never had a good bouncer. 

[express bowling]

Gurnoor Brar is a big step in the right direction.

 

Can solve this issue.

Edited June 20 by express bowling

[express bowling]

It was good to hear Shubman Gill talk about this issue in the post ODI series presser. 

 

Said that he is happy to see a pool of tall, quick pacers .... Gurnoor, Prasidh, Harshit .... who can use bounce in the middle phase of ODIs when things flatten out. 

 

Talked about the need for pacers to hit the top of off stump and adjust their lengths to achieve this on different surfaces. 

 

And also talked about the need for bowling a lot of bouncers when the ball is not moving. 

 

Like his clarity of thought and thinking about pace bowlers.

[express bowling]

2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

It was good to hear Shubman Gill talk about this issue in the post ODI series presser. 

 

Said that he is happy to see a pool of tall, quick pacers .... Gurnoor, Prasidh, Harshit .... who can use bounce in the middle phase of ODIs when things flatten out. 

 

Talked about the need for pacers to hit the top of off stump and adjust their lengths to achieve this on different surfaces. 

 

And also talked about the need for bowling a lot of bouncers when the ball is not moving. 

 

Like his clarity of thought and thinking about pace bowlers.

 

 

And Gill will benefit from this approach in the 2nd innings of SENA tests too.

 

Pitches are becoming flat in the 2nd innings in England, NZ and SA too.

 

But it is important for pacers to mix things up when conditions are flat. Too few short balls and too many short balls are both ineffective. Need to mix things up.