Missing ingredients in Indian cricket

[vvvslaxman]

7 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

both lacks power game, plus they do not play any innovative shots , They have restricted bat swing , it may work vs 2nd tier bowling units bt not vs in icc event where teams are playing on full strength.

 

Thats where Ind should develop player like Dhir, he is tall with long levers and some power game, there was an allrounder in smat jakhar (hryn) he may be arounf 6.4-6.5 bowls 128-129 kmph and showed he can hit down the ground , may be he should be developed vs high pace and short pitch ball.

Actually Ashwin had better hitting technique than these two. 

[nevada]

15 hours ago, diga said:

We miss a good no5 or no6 batsman like vvs who was adept at playing both pace and spin. Rahane was ok but nobody after that 

Rahane sucked against spin! His constant selection despite the glaring weakness spread complacency among other batters also, with Kohli and Pujara struggling against spin as well. 

[zaqw222222]

For me the missing ingredient seems to be in fielding/catching. Our ground fielding seems to be deteriorating and last year catching was bad. Even the young guns do not look like athletic guys in field. Previously we used to have guys like Raina, Jadeja, Kohli( at least in ground fielding) who were considered best in the world in fielding but nowadays no one from young group is in the discussion of best fielder.

Another missing ingredient is our main bowlers in white ball cricket are complete dud with bats. If we play Kuldeep, Varun, Bumrah and Arshdeep together in T20 then batting ends at 7. They might get single or double but we can not even rely on these to hit a 6 or 4 in death overs. They need to work on their power hitting so that at least they can hit some lofty hits in death overs.

[Serpico]

8 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Actually Ashwin had better hitting technique than these two. 

Ashiwn was a good boundary hitter in tests. in LOIs his hitting range was also quite limited

[vvvslaxman]

Since we have expanded from personnel to skill i say India has to master the art of sweep shots.  Women's team is showing how it can be done. How safe and productive it can be.

[vvvslaxman]

2 hours ago, Serpico said:

Ashiwn was a good boundary hitter in tests. in LOIs his hitting range was also quite limited

He is not a power hitter. But his bat swing is similar to that of a power hitter unlike Axar/ Sundar. Sundar has power. But his weight is mostly on the backfoot. That is why he plays short balls well even even consistently hit them for six. A rare talent among Indians.  But moment the ball is a half volley or length ball his bat swing is just not good enugh to power it over the bowlers head.  He has to rely on timing.

[vvvslaxman]

Nowadays i don't see tall bowlers with potential. 6'4" or so. 

[tapandrun]

On 12/23/2025 at 10:39 AM, vvvslaxman said:

He is not a power hitter. But his bat swing is similar to that of a power hitter unlike Axar/ Sundar. Sundar has power. But his weight is mostly on the backfoot. That is why he plays short balls well even even consistently hit them for six. A rare talent among Indians.  But moment the ball is a half volley or length ball his bat swing is just not good enugh to power it over the bowlers head.  He has to rely on timing.

For t20s having weight on backfoot is not a good idea specially some-one playing mo/lower mo. 

If the weight is on backfoot need superfast bat swing and speed like base-ball hitter Tim Sifert (nz) is a good example his weight is on backfoot bat swings at the ball v,hard be it on off or leg.

 

Edited December 24, 2025 by tapandrun

[vvvslaxman]

I looked for a stat "Most runs in death overs in a successful run chase by an India".  I have created a ranking based on RUn rate and balls/six.   I know 4 is important. But you feel more confident when the guy i s a six hitter. Here is the  ranking.  Disclaimer: It does not factor in whether they did against minnow or good side. That is something we have to filter out.

 

THIS IS EXCLUSIVELY DEATH OVER ( LAST OVERS OF THE MATCH)  PERFORMANCE in a succesful chase. As per the ranking Axar comes the last.  Jadeja comes one level above. Above him Pandey and Pant, Dhoni. Are we surprised by this ranking? We always knew these are useless finishers. 

@Lord  @Ultimate_Game @rollingstoned  @tapandrun

 

Edited December 27, 2025 by vvvslaxman

[Ultimate_Game]

19 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

I looked for a stat "Most runs in death overs in a successful run chase by an India".  I have created a ranking based on RUn rate and balls/six.   I know 4 is important. But you feel more confident when the guy i s a six hitter. Here is the  ranking.  Disclaimer: It does not factor in whether they did against minnow or good side. That is something we have to filter out.

 

THIS IS EXCLUSIVELY DEATH OVER ( LAST OVERS OF THE MATCH)  PERFORMANCE in a succesful chase. As per the ranking Axar comes the last.  Jadeja comes one level above. Above him Pandey and Pant, Dhoni. Are we surprised by this ranking? We always knew these are useless finishers. 

@Lord  @Ultimate_Game @rollingstoned  @tapandrun

 

 

Jadeja and Axar aren't death overs batters and it shows. That's why I want to see Axar at 5 so he comes in as a pinch hitter rather than bat at the death. Also the reason I want to see Rinku in the team as he is one of very few batters who can bat as the situation demands. He can bat responsibly and also hit boundaries when needed. Very few players can do so.

 

SKY's numbers are a bit misleading as majority of his runs are cheap runs. Let's see what he does this WT20 and whether he can change the narrative.

[vvvslaxman]

13 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Jadeja and Axar aren't death overs batters and it shows. That's why I want to see Axar at 5 so he comes in as a pinch hitter rather than bat at the death. Also the reason I want to see Rinku in the team as he is one of very few batters who can bat as the situation demands. He can bat responsibly and also hit boundaries when needed. Very few players can do so.

 

SKY's numbers are a bit misleading as majority of his runs are cheap runs. Let's see what he does this WT20 and whether he can change the narrative.

yes SKY in bilaterals

 

 

80 in 42 balls against AUstralia at vizag

83 in 44 balls against Windies at providence

76 in 44 balls against Windies at bassettere

62 in 40 balls against NZ in Jaipur

50* in 33 balls against SA at Trivandrum.

 

These are his top scores. 

 

50* in 49 balls against USA.

[tapandrun]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

I looked for a stat "Most runs in death overs in a successful run chase by an India".  I have created a ranking based on RUn rate and balls/six.   I know 4 is important. But you feel more confident when the guy i s a six hitter. Here is the  ranking.  Disclaimer: It does not factor in whether they did against minnow or good side. That is something we have to filter out.

 

THIS IS EXCLUSIVELY DEATH OVER ( LAST OVERS OF THE MATCH)  PERFORMANCE in a succesful chase. As per the ranking Axar comes the last.  Jadeja comes one level above. Above him Pandey and Pant, Dhoni. Are we surprised by this ranking? We always knew these are useless finishers. 

@Lord  @Ultimate_Game @rollingstoned  @tapandrun

 

 

Have been mentioning this for long time that Ind does not have batter with proper power game to be a finisher, in t20s need players who have proper power game to be finisher.

Against good t20 sides need batters who can access both off and leg side and have power game.

 

Been posting about pant when ppl try to make a case for him in white-ball as mo or lower mo batters.

Axar can only hit 6s vs spin and vs pace he tries to play his kind of over the bowler down the ground shots. Axar is largely is 4 hitter and his ability to not to bog down.

 

Problem is Ind does not understand or there are some diff constraints that Ind does not get proper power hitters in t20 sides. Thats why there is a case for dube he is  nt top batter but that is wht Ind has there is no one like him, not sure how many overs does he have in t20i game vs a good t20i side but need batter with power game  and should be tall. Thats the reason donot see the case for rinku as well as a finisher. He is more like a batter  after the batters and some1 Ind will use when there is a mini collapse.

 

Do not count for a situation where top order batter was able to bat till last overs, in such case an above par score would have already been achieved by then or game is already over if chasing an  top order batters are still batting.

 

Dhoni for large part had a t20i sr of below 120 and he finished with sr of ~125.

Pant t20i sr is ~125

jaddu not sure it should be ~127

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2025 by tapandrun

[vvvslaxman]

15 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

 

Have been mentioning this for long time that Ind does not have batter with proper power game to be a finisher, in t20s need players who have proper power game to be finisher.

Against good t20 sides need batters who can access both off and leg side and have power game.

 

Been posting about pant when ppl try to make a case for him in white-ball as mo or lower mo batters.

Axar can only hit 6s vs spin and vs pace he tries to play his kind of over the bowler down the ground shots. Axar is largely is 4 hitter and his ability to not to bog down.

 

Problem is Ind does not understand or there are some diff constraints that Ind does not get proper power hitters in t20 sides. Thats why there is a case for dube he is top batter but that is wht Ind has there is no one like him, not sure how many overs does he have in t20i game vs a good t20i side but need batter with power game  and should be tall. Thats the reason donot see the case for rinku as well as a finisher. He is more like a batter  after the batters and some1 Ind will use when there is a mini collapse.

 

Do not count for a situation where top order batter was able to bat till last overs, in such case an above par score would have already been achieved by then or game is already over if chasing an  top order batters are still batting.

 

Dhoni for large part had a t20i sr of below 120 and he finished with sr of ~125.

Pant t20i sr is ~125

jaddu not sure it should be ~127

 

 

 

 

 

 

IT is only last 4 over performance in a winning match. I can come up with a similar graph in a lost match. I just wanted to see who the match winners are in chasing scenario. 

[tapandrun]

3 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

IT is only last 4 over performance in a winning match. I can come up with a similar graph in a lost match. I just wanted to see who the match winners are in chasing scenario. 

You can pull any data batting 1st or chasing, you will see same pattern if there is a top order batter than only Ind is able to finish stronger. else its nothing much.

 

Thats is why you need strong hitters who can access both off and legsides to finish.

 

Ins was able to finish well when Yuvi , raina, Dhoni was where in Odis and again Odi hitting is diff. than t20is.

dhoni was good down the ground, yuvi was good down the ground and legside , same for raina was good down the ground. All 3 had imitations as individual players but they add up as a bunch 

Edited December 27, 2025 by tapandrun

[Ultimate_Game]

52 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

yes SKY in bilaterals

 

 

80 in 42 balls against AUstralia at vizag

83 in 44 balls against Windies at providence

76 in 44 balls against Windies at bassettere

62 in 40 balls against NZ in Jaipur

50* in 33 balls against SA at Trivandrum.

 

These are his top scores. 

 

50* in 49 balls against USA.

 

SKY in bilaterals against 2nd string bowling attacks is totally different from SKY in tournies against first choice bowling attacks and stringer teams.

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, Ultimate_Game said:

 

SKY in bilaterals against 2nd string bowling attacks is totally different from SKY in tournies against first choice bowling attacks and stringer teams.

IN pressure matches he gets tight and plays awful lot of loose shots.

[Ultimate_Game]

50 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

IN pressure matches he gets tight and plays awful lot of loose shots.

 

His go to shot is that flick to fine leg/square leg area and gets caught, or he tries to chip it over mid off/mid on and gets caught. SKY is an extremely limited batter and teams have figured him out. He requires a lot of luck to score as he plays low percentage shots across the line to score.

[rollingstoned]

2 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

I looked for a stat "Most runs in death overs in a successful run chase by an India".  I have created a ranking based on RUn rate and balls/six.   I know 4 is important. But you feel more confident when the guy i s a six hitter. Here is the  ranking.  Disclaimer: It does not factor in whether they did against minnow or good side. That is something we have to filter out.

 

THIS IS EXCLUSIVELY DEATH OVER ( LAST OVERS OF THE MATCH)  PERFORMANCE in a succesful chase. As per the ranking Axar comes the last.  Jadeja comes one level above. Above him Pandey and Pant, Dhoni. Are we surprised by this ranking? We always knew these are useless finishers. 

@Lord  @Ultimate_Game @rollingstoned  @tapandrun

 

Dhoni and Pandya have a huge sample size. Only Kohli is comparable there.but yes good data which confirms most of our observations. 

There is no way to to give weightage based on batting position. A top order batter batting at death will be very well set and seeing it like a football and on 100+ runs. 

[rollingstoned]

56 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

SKY in bilaterals against 2nd string bowling attacks is totally different from SKY in tournies against first choice bowling attacks and stringer teams.

Only memorable innings by him in a tourney is the one against Saf in the 2022 wc. We lost that game and it was a group stage match but I don't remember a good pressure knock from him in any other match. 

[vvvslaxman]

4 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

Dhoni and Pandya have a huge sample size. Only Kohli is comparable there.but yes good data which confirms most of our observations. 

There is no way to to give weightage based on batting position. A top order batter batting at death will be very well set and seeing it like a football and on 100+ runs. 

That is true. But we can get a sense how we win matches.  I checked how we perform in death overs when we lose. These are the top 15 run getters in death overs in a losing cause while chasing.  Let me do something like this while setting. We can get an idea. WHenever guys like Hardik, Yuvi go missing we lose