Missing ingredients in Indian cricket

[tapandrun]

16 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

That is true. But we can get a sense how we win matches.  I checked how we perform in death overs when we lose. These are the top 15 run getters in death overs in a losing cause while chasing.  Let me do something like this while setting. We can get an idea. WHenever guys like Hardik, Yuvi go missing we lose

 

Point that I was trying to make , in terms of finisher needs to have power game+ able to access both off and leg-side checks out here as well.

Dhoni has power but he was unable to access the off side that well and hence the bowlers targeted off-side and bowling bouncers on off-side.

 

Dk was able to access both off and leg side with accessing the diff. areas in the field but had no power game so vs good bowling side he was unable to finish as they would make him hit down the ground.

 

[tapandrun]

16 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

That is true. But we can get a sense how we win matches.  I checked how we perform in death overs when we lose. These are the top 15 run getters in death overs in a losing cause while chasing.  Let me do something like this while setting. We can get an idea. WHenever guys like Hardik, Yuvi go missing we lose

 

Point that I was trying to make , in terms of finisher needs to have power game+ able to access both off and leg-side checks out here as well.

Dhoni has power but he was unable to access the off side that well and hence the bowlers targeted off-side and bowling bouncers on off-side.

 

Dk was able to access both off and leg side with accessing the diff. areas in the field but had no power game so vs good bowling side he was unable to finish as they would make him hit down the ground.

 

As Ind will not find a miller or a russell or a pollard or a tim david they have make a combination of 2-3 batters to work as finisher.

 

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, tapandrun said:

Point that I was trying to make , in terms of finisher needs to have power game+ able to access both off and leg-side checks out here as well.

Dhoni has power but he was unable to access the off side that well and hence the bowlers targeted off-side and bowling bouncers on off-side.

 

Dk was able to access both off and leg side with accessing the diff. areas in the field but had no power game so vs good bowling side he was unable to finish as they would make him hit down the ground.

 

Dk's problem was mostly nerves. HE has smashed some very good bowlers. Infact Best batsmen against Bumrah in IPL history is DK.

[tapandrun]

20 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Dk's problem was mostly nerves. HE has smashed some very good bowlers. Infact Best batsmen against Bumrah in IPL history is DK.

Dk would have been a good pick for games in Ind or places with smaller boundaries nt Aus and specially as finisher.

Edited December 27, 2025 by tapandrun

[Ultimate_Game]

50 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

Only memorable innings by him in a tourney is the one against Saf in the 2022 wc. We lost that game and it was a group stage match but I don't remember a good pressure knock from him in any other match. 

 

Yup. Lost that due to Kohli dropping a sitter but other than that game, SKY hasn't done anything of note. His next best was the supporting role he played alongside Rohit in 2024 WT20 against Eng but Rohit was the main guy against Eng and Aus. So far SKY hasn't been the main guy or difference maker in a big match and he has been playing for years. He has already played 4 or 5 tournies, including Asia Cups and multiple WT20s and so far he hasn't done anything other than the Miller catch. That's why I want Iyer to replace him as Iyer was pretty good in 2023 WC and also helped us win the recent CT with his consistency.

[Need4Speed]

2 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Yup. Lost that due to Kohli dropping a sitter but other than that game, SKY hasn't done anything of note. His next best was the supporting role he played alongside Rohit in 2024 WT20 against Eng but Rohit was the main guy against Eng and Aus. So far SKY hasn't been the main guy or difference maker in a big match and he has been playing for years. He has already played 4 or 5 tournies, including Asia Cups and multiple WT20s and so far he hasn't done anything other than the Miller catch. That's why I want Iyer to replace him as Iyer was pretty good in 2023 WC and also helped us win the recent CT with his consistency.

and consistently fails against Pakistan..

[Ultimate_Game]

1 hour ago, Need4Speed said:

and consistently fails against Pakistan..

 

He's Rauf's bunny and generally can't handle pacers. Iyer would add so much solidity to the lineup.

[vvvslaxman]

5 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

He's Rauf's bunny and generally can't handle pacers. Iyer would add so much solidity to the lineup.

 

Iyer has average of 56 against pakistan with 2 fifties. one in world cup. one in CT. oNly failure was Asia cup. 

[vvvslaxman]

Let me try to do a little analysis SKY's enigmatic T20 career

[Ultimate_Game]

4 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Iyer has average of 56 against pakistan with 2 fifties. one in world cup. one in CT. oNly failure was Asia cup. 

 

Yup, Iyer shows up. In CT he showed up every match. Even in WC 2023 he was our enforcer after Rohit. If it wasn't for him we would've scored 330 or so in WC SF against NZ and lost. He was selfless and played for the team. Plus his leadership and captaincy credentials cannot be questioned after he took 3 poor IPL teams - KKR, DC and PBKS to IPL finals. Taking DC and PBKS to the finals itself deserves captaincy for Team India in shorter formats!

 

Iyer has shown he can handle and perform under pressure, and also lead from the front. I would've kicked out SKY along with Gill and made Iyer captain. If Iyer is still not recovered, I would hand over the captaincy to Pandya. Pandya is our white-ball MVP and always shows up at the crunch, and he took GT to back-to-back IPL finals winning one. He should've always been ahead of SKY as Team India captain but apparently BCCI babus don't like his "attitude".

[diga]

A good red ball coach 

[vvvslaxman]

Here is Peformance of Indians against Pakistan since 2020.  Gave weightage to various things like no. of matches, total runs, average, strike rate to come up with this ranking.

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

Surya's performance in key matches

 

[Suhaan]

On 12/27/2025 at 11:02 AM, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Yup. Lost that due to Kohli dropping a sitter but other than that game, SKY hasn't done anything of note. His next best was the supporting role he played alongside Rohit in 2024 WT20 against Eng but Rohit was the main guy against Eng and Aus. So far SKY hasn't been the main guy or difference maker in a big match and he has been playing for years. He has already played 4 or 5 tournies, including Asia Cups and multiple WT20s and so far he hasn't done anything other than the Miller catch. That's why I want Iyer to replace him as Iyer was pretty good in 2023 WC and also helped us win the recent CT with his consistency.

Iyer has been very very poor in T20s barring this season,just look at his overall SR in IPL

He was never a T20 player,he's the last guy you will look at while building a proper T20 side even kela is better than him

[tapandrun]

7 hours ago, Suhaan said:

Iyer has been very very poor in T20s barring this season,just look at his overall SR in IPL

He was never a T20 player,he's the last guy you will look at while building a proper T20 side even kela is better than him

 

Iyer is v.good in odis and odi hitting is not same as t20i hitting, ipl records should be looked at for newer player but players who have made it to intnl team then they should be compared to intnl standards

 

iyer is a gutsy player who doe not give away his wkt easily  and he has ability take down the spinner and able to hit few 4s vs pace too. this works perfects for odis. even if there is a bowler who is bowling barrage of bumpers to him he can leave few and may be hit few and rotate strike and change the ends. This way he is making faster bowlers to bowl the over which they are not supposed to bowl.

 

But t20i is diff. a batter need 2 or more 4/6 per over, can not negotiate the way one can do in odis they have to hit  it and if the over does not go for 6-8 run over its building pressure on yourself and other batter too. In Aus series ppl here were posting that did iyer fixed his issues with sort-ball or not.

 

He has not fully fixed it but he has found a way to negotiate in odis in sc like conditions, if he picks and choses which ball to hit and negotiate and leave few then its good in odis. 

A batter can do well in odis with not having some shots, in test batters can do well with more limitations if they have good defence.

 

In t20is having obvious weakness is hard to hide and play with. Bowlers does not have necessarily try to get the batter out but they can stop the run flow creating pressure and making the batter or the partner to play more risky shot in quest of getting more 4/6 from other bowlers. 

 

Have posted the list of batter who have 90-110 sr in Odis but do not do that well in t20is because of the same reason they can be held back or contained.

 

Take a look a rachin ravindra his odi sr is 107 but in t20is its 135, and its not like he has scored soft runs in odis.

You can look at fakkar,gill, daryl mitchell, even pandaya  

Edited December 28, 2025 by tapandrun

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

 

Iyer is v.good in odis and odi hitting is not same as t20i hitting, ipl records should be looked at for newer player but players who have made it to intnl team then they should be compared to intnl standards

 

iyer is a gutsy player who doe not give away his wkt easily  and he has ability take down the spinner and able to hit few 4s vs pace too. this works perfects for odis. even if there is a bowler who is bowling barrage of bumpers to him he can leave few and may be hit few and rotate strike and change the ends. This way he is making faster bowlers to bowl the over which they are not supposed to bowl.

 

But t20i is diff. a batter need 2 or more 4/6 per over, can not negotiate the way one can do in odis they have to hit  it and if the over does not go for 6-8 run over its building pressure on yourself and other batter too. In Aus series ppl here were posting that did iyer fixed his issues with sort-ball or not.

 

He has not fully fixed it but he has found a way to negotiate in odis in sc like conditions, if he picks and choses which ball to hit and negotiate and leave few then its good in odis. 

A batter can do well in odis with not having some shots, in test batters can do well with more limitations if they have good defence.

 

In t20is having obvious weakness is hard to hide and play with. Bowlers does not have necessarily try to get the batter out but they can stop the run flow creating pressure and making the batter or the partner to play more risky shot in quest of getting more 4/6 from other bowlers. 

If you bowl into rib cage our entire T20 line up will struggle.  Apart from Rohit nobody can pull that well.  Iyer's only problem is it hurts his frontfoot game. He is probably the best frontfoot player in the current set up.   That swing is so clean and pure you can only see from hardik pandya, Rohit.  As long as he doesn't get stuck on the backfoot he is going to be  a monsterous all format player.  He is also not a guy who stops hitting after a  couple of boundarie.s He goes for maximizing the over. He has the skill to do that. That is essential in T20. Iyer may have weakness. But our current lot has no strength. Axar, Sundar, Dube (against certain lengths),  SKY (form) all have major issues. Even Tilak is not a fluent big hitter who can keep on hitting.  Shreyas iyer style of using the crease side ways is something you don't see in others. 

[vvvslaxman]

This is a typical innings 19 in 15 balls finished with 87 in 41 balls.   Watch his three back to back sixes against Topley.

 

  

 This 

Edited December 28, 2025 by vvvslaxman

[tapandrun]

29 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

If you bowl into rib cage our entire T20 line up will struggle.  Apart from Rohit nobody can pull that well.  Iyer's only problem is it hurts his frontfoot game. He is probably the best frontfoot player in the current set up.   That swing is so clean and pure you can only see from hardik pandya, Rohit.  As long as he doesn't get stuck on the backfoot he is going to be  a monsterous all format player.  He is also not a guy who stops hitting after a  couple of boundarie.s He goes for maximizing the over. He has the skill to do that. That is essential in T20. Iyer may have weakness. But our current lot has no strength. Axar, Sundar, Dube (against certain lengths),  SKY (form) all have major issues. Even Tilak is not a fluent big hitter who can keep on hitting.  Shreyas iyer style of using the crease side ways is something you don't see in others. 

 

Iyer is amongst the most gutsy batters in Ind set-up he does not give-up, I pointed this out when he was out of the team as well that if sorts out his sort-ball issue he will be in the running for the captain's spot which he is now in Odis.

 

Iyer has hitting ability but the issue is he has to completely fix the issue with sort ball to play at #4 in T20is. Comparing a pure batters to allrounders is not the right way of doing things. Thats is where Ind cricketing system lacks behind how come a pure batter has an obvious weakness.

 

Not comparing him to rohit, he is the amongst the best in the world and he may the best ever in playing short-ball in Ind. 

 

Again with the kind of form Sky is in everything will look better than him. As for Tilak he also lacks power game and think he lacks off-side game too, but he plays at #3 where he can use pp and if paired with Sunju/Abhishek he can rotate and give them strike, yes Ind should look for better options than him in times to come. And his issues with lack of power become more visible in IPL where he is not playing #3.

 

Not questing Iyers intent, he is only batter who looks to play for the team all the time, he thinks or shifting the game. 

But his T20i Sr is 136 after 50+ games and IPl his sr is 133, he just had 1 good last season where his sr was 175, a season before that 145 and then all are below 130

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2025 by tapandrun

[tapandrun]

16 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Surya's performance in key matches

 

 

Amazing how Ind top stars does not even have 130 sr vs Pak where pak bowlers gets thrashed by every1 and anyone 

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

13 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

 

Iyer is amongst the most gutsy batters in Ind set-up he does not give-up, I pointed this out when he was out of the team as well that if sorts out his sort-ball issue he will be in the running for the captain's spot which he is now in Odis.

 

Iyer has hitting ability but the issue is he has to completely fix the issue with sort ball to play at #4 in T20is. Comparing a pure batters to allrounders is not the right way of doing things. Thats is where Ind cricketing system lacks behind how come a pure batter has an obvious weakness.

 

Not comparing him to rohit, he is the amongst the best in the world and he may the best ever in playing short-ball in Ind. 

 

Again with the kind of form Sky is in everything will look better than him. As for Tilak he also lacks power game and think he lacks off-side game too, but he plays at #3 where he can use pp and if paired with Sunju/Abhishek he can rotate and give them strike, yes Ind should look for better options than him in times to come. And his issues with lack of power become more visible in IPL where he is not playing #3.

 

Not questing Iyers intent, he is only batter who looks to play for the team all the time, he thinks or shifting the game. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Reason i want to back Iyer is his hitting style. That is probably similar to you see from Australian, South African big hitters. That strong base, clean swing, accessing both sides with equal power.  Yes He does play percentage cricket even in T20.  Sometimes not ideal. But he  is the best counter puncher under crisis. Once he did against SA when we were 4 down. Early this year  India lost both Jaiswal and Rohit in 5 overs 19/2. Gill was tuk tuking too. He came in and immediately went after Archer and completely turned the game on its head. Smashed him for back to back six. Then punished every short ball. In place of current SKY it is a no brainer. Also very level headed under pressure unlike SKY who choked very badly even when he was world no.1 ranked T20 batsman.