Lone Wolf Posted August 7 Posted August 7 (edited) 53 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: Airforce is one area where we really need skilled workforce. Monopoly of HAL meant the learnings of AL31 engine never flew outside. We have the same problem with Shipyards as well, but atleast they arent concentrated with one failsafe point like IAF is with HAL. Now with setup MRO of Safran in Hyderabad & Dassault in Nagpur...we will get the workforce working and acquiring knowledge. Just like IT industry, first most of workforce worked for American BPOs and Tech support, learnt ways of working and now we are seeing entrepreneurs making their setup. Same thing needs to happen with critical tech like engine. See the below interview of Saurav Jha with Shiv & Vishnu. How they are working on small turbine engines to produce 5-10-15 MW of power...thats the stepping stone. IAF traditionally has been our weaker wing for some reason. Even in previous wars albeit in 60's and 70's their performance was usually below a tier compared to Army and Navy. That has contributed over the decades ana eventual decay set in last 2 decades. Anyways Most people are now convinced that TEDBF won't go past prototype stage. Navy will eventually get its 57 Rafale M. AMCA N will be the indigenous deck based fighter sometime into the future. As of now Navy is funding ₹3000 crore Marine gas turbine program off its own budget. Immediate focus should also be to indigenize weapons, sensors and AD systems. Edited August 7 by Lone Wolf singhvivek141 1
singhvivek141 Posted August 7 Posted August 7 (edited) 2 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: IAF traditionally has been our weaker wing for some reason. Even in previous wars albeit in 60's and 70's their performance was usually below a tier compared to Army and Navy. That has contributed over the decades ana eventual decay set in last 2 decades. Anyways Most people are now convinced that TEDBF won't go past prototype stage. Navy will eventually get its 57 Rafale M. AMCA N will be the indigenous deck based fighter sometime into the future. As of now Navy is funding ₹3000 crore Marine gas turbine program off its own budget. Immediate focus should also be to indigenize weapons, sensors and AD systems. Navy jets are a different beast as well man. Due to presence of constant moisture, the coating often peels off more frequently in comparison to land based fighter jets. On top of that, Navy jets need to have folding wingspan design, so that they can be fitted into the lift and move the lower deck. Not to mention, the stress on the airframe due to arrested landings. AMCA will be a maintenance nightmare. With Rafale-M, they dont have a folding wing design. So thats another headache Navy has to navigate through. They have to be parked in the outer deck, which means more risk of corrosion and wear and tear. Thats why very few nations maintain Navy fighter jets, and they need replenishment quickly in comparison to land based jets. I think buying additional 31 Rafale-M, Navy should drop the plan. We have the knowledge of N-LCA. TEDBF should move ahead in limited numbers (30 odd) with F414 engine if the design is locked, and once the GTRE Safran engine is ready, Navy can order more TEDBF with new engine. We are following same process with AMCA as well. Mk1 variant will be ordered in smaller numbers of around 40-60, while Mk2 will be ordered in higher numbers as per IAF reports. Edited August 7 by singhvivek141
mishra Posted August 7 Posted August 7 Safran jet engine codevelopment seems finalised now. Project will come directly under PMO. 120KN engine, 100% TOT with strict timeline. If Modi achieves it during his tenure, For me he becomes best PM ever.
Lone Wolf Posted August 7 Posted August 7 (edited) 16 minutes ago, mishra said: Safran jet engine codevelopment seems finalised now. Project will come directly under PMO. 120KN engine, 100% TOT with strict timeline. If Modi achieves it during his tenure, For me he becomes best PM ever. No one will give 100% ToT & certainly not french.. we are having a hard time to get them to agree on Indian weapons integration on Rafale. French robbed us in broad daylight in Scorpene ToT drama... Ex Navy chief it self has said they wouldn't share anything useful despite ToT commitments. France is miffed with German TKMS over Type 214 NG ToT agreement with India .. alleging it would increase competition in future like TKMS did with South Korea. When it comes to engine it will be the usual partnership... IP rights and critical hot section access will stick to French Edited August 7 by Lone Wolf
Lone Wolf Posted August 7 Posted August 7 56 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: Navy jets are a different beast as well man. Due to presence of constant moisture, the coating often peels off more frequently in comparison to land based fighter jets. On top of that, Navy jets need to have folding wingspan design, so that they can be fitted into the lift and move the lower deck. Not to mention, the stress on the airframe due to arrested landings. AMCA will be a maintenance nightmare. With Rafale-M, they dont have a folding wing design. So thats another headache Navy has to navigate through. They have to be parked in the outer deck, which means more risk of corrosion and wear and tear. Thats why very few nations maintain Navy fighter jets, and they need replenishment quickly in comparison to land based jets. I think buying additional 31 Rafale-M, Navy should drop the plan. We have the knowledge of N-LCA. TEDBF should move ahead in limited numbers (30 odd) with F414 engine if the design is locked, and once the GTRE Safran engine is ready, Navy can order more TEDBF with new engine. We are following same process with AMCA as well. Mk1 variant will be ordered in smaller numbers of around 40-60, while Mk2 will be ordered in higher numbers as per IAF reports. Yeah Rafale M doesn't works for Vikramaditya and rest assured Vikramaditya isn't going anywhere till the early 2040's. They will have to make some jugaad for Rafale M as TEDBF is nothing but pipe dream atp.. carriers also cannot be kept under armed as well. Let's have it, width for folded mig29k is 25.7ft unfolded mig29k 39.4ft RafaleM 35ft Impossible on Vikramaditya but maybe with huge headache possible on Vikrant singhvivek141 1
singhvivek141 Posted August 7 Posted August 7 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: Yeah Rafale M doesn't works for Vikramaditya and rest assured Vikramaditya isn't going anywhere till the early 2040's. They will have to make some jugaad for Rafale M as TEDBF is nothing but pipe dream atp.. carriers also cannot be kept under armed as well. Let's have it, width for folded mig29k is 25.7ft unfolded mig29k 39.4ft RafaleM 35ft Impossible on Vikramaditya but maybe with huge headache possible on Vikrant Yeah, I also think that Vikramaditya will carry Mig29k exclusively. It will retire along with Mig29k...though there are reports that its maintenance is now a problem. But Navy will manage it somehow. I also feel that with the delays in approval of IAC 2, I think it will be a new supercarrier and not a repeat of INS Vikrant (hope I am not wrong). But at this moment, this isnt the priority for Indian Navy...Next gen submarines & destroyers are. Edited August 7 by singhvivek141 Lone Wolf 1
rangeelaraja Posted August 8 Author Posted August 8 Bhai log yeh dekho nayi sazish....teen chuhon ki. @singhvivek141 @Lone Wolf The last paragraph holds the moot point. I feel this is just posturing. Pak did nothing to protect Saudi from Iran. Neither is going to do anything to protect Pak if push comes to shove. Turkey will supply arms, but that it did even without this so called agreement. singhvivek141 1
singhvivek141 Posted August 8 Posted August 8 3 hours ago, rangeelaraja said: Bhai log yeh dekho nayi sazish....teen chuhon ki. @singhvivek141 @Lone Wolf The last paragraph holds the moot point. I feel this is just posturing. Pak did nothing to protect Saudi from Iran. Neither is going to do anything to protect Pak if push comes to shove. Turkey will supply arms, but that it did even without this so called agreement. Turkiye-Saudi-Pak alliance is something we need to be wary about. Even though it isnt perfect. 1. Turkiye & Saudis are at opposite poles of each other. Turkiye wants to being back the era of Khilafat & Ottoman Empire when it was the leader of Sunni world, not Saudi. 2. Saudis have very strong ties with Israel. While Turkiye hates Israel....Pakistani awaam dislikes Israel but the top dogs are ready to lick the feet of Jews. 3. Saudi & UAE have seen a stiff relations in last few months. UAE is seeing Saudi as a challenger to the financial monopoly which they had currently in Middle East. Saudi's NEOM city project is actually a challenge to UAE. Pak-UAE relations are also on their lowest end. 4. Turkiye & Pakistan sees animosity towards India, but Saudi's govt instance is neutral. 5. Saudi needs Pak troops to fight the battle in Yemen and maybe in Iran in need arises. Pakistan is hedging its bet that it successfully mediates Iran-US talks..while getting dollars from Saudi & new military toys from Turkiye against India. Basically, both Turkiye & Saudi wants to use Pakistan and its fauj. That's why I am suspecting that we may see an "untold, unwritten" alliance soon between India, UAE & Israel (include Greece as well). With Dassualt & Safran MRO in India, UAE may get some of the Rafales for their airforce (I know the deal between UAE-France for Rafale broke).
rangeelaraja Posted August 8 Author Posted August 8 (edited) 5 hours ago, singhvivek141 said: Turkiye-Saudi-Pak alliance is something we need to be wary about. Even though it isnt perfect. 1. Turkiye & Saudis are at opposite poles of each other. Turkiye wants to being back the era of Khilafat & Ottoman Empire when it was the leader of Sunni world, not Saudi. 2. Saudis have very strong ties with Israel. While Turkiye hates Israel....Pakistani awaam dislikes Israel but the top dogs are ready to lick the feet of Jews. 3. Saudi & UAE have seen a stiff relations in last few months. UAE is seeing Saudi as a challenger to the financial monopoly which they had currently in Middle East. Saudi's NEOM city project is actually a challenge to UAE. Pak-UAE relations are also on their lowest end. 4. Turkiye & Pakistan sees animosity towards India, but Saudi's govt instance is neutral. 5. Saudi needs Pak troops to fight the battle in Yemen and maybe in Iran in need arises. Pakistan is hedging its bet that it successfully mediates Iran-US talks..while getting dollars from Saudi & new military toys from Turkiye against India. Basically, both Turkiye & Saudi wants to use Pakistan and its fauj. That's why I am suspecting that we may see an "untold, unwritten" alliance soon between India, UAE & Israel (include Greece as well). With Dassualt & Safran MRO in India, UAE may get some of the Rafales for their airforce (I know the deal between UAE-France for Rafale broke). The way I read this so called Turkiye-Saudi-Pak alliance: 1) Turkiye needs it because of if Israel attacks Turkiye , US is not going to invoke NATO. 2) Saudi needs it protect itselld against Iran. 3) Pak is the pimp here because like you said Turkiye and Saudi are at opposite poles. Pak will get some alliance money and send it personnel as cannon fodder if the treaty is invoked. There is ALREADY and " untold / unwritten " alliance between India and Israel. India has been providing Israel arms and ammunitions relentlessly --https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2026/07/india-continuing-weapons-exports-to-israel-could-risk-complicity-in-ongoing-genocide-in-gaza-new-investigation/ And Israel has been India's true and only unconditional friend - through 1971, 1999 and beyond. UAE needs both for its protection. Edited August 8 by rangeelaraja singhvivek141 1
singhvivek141 Posted August 8 Posted August 8 12 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said: The way I read this so called Turkiye-Saudi-Pak alliance: 1) Turkiye needs it because of if Israel attacks Turkiye , US is not going to invoke NATO. 2) Saudi needs it protect itselld against Iran. 3) Pak is the pimp here because like you said Turkiye and Saudi are at opposite poles. Pak will get some alliance money and send it personnel as cannon fodder if the treaty is invoked. There is ALREADY and " untold / unwritten " alliance between India and Israel. India has been providing Israel arms and ammunitions relentlessly --https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2026/07/india-continuing-weapons-exports-to-israel-could-risk-complicity-in-ongoing-genocide-in-gaza-new-investigation/ And Israel has been India's true and only unconditional friend - through 1971, 1999 and beyond. UAE needs both for its protection. Israel and USSR (now Russia). Israel is our eye in the Middle East (though we are expanding that with ties with Greece & Cyprus, but thats more towards the European side). While UAE has emerged as a potentially strong partner in ME, specially with the Indian Workforce (thanks to Malyalis, Kannadigas & Maharashtrians) representing India in a positive light there. If things continue to move the way it is, who knows Al Jazeera too start being soft towards us.
Lone Wolf Posted August 8 Posted August 8 7 hours ago, singhvivek141 said: Turkiye-Saudi-Pak alliance is something we need to be wary about. Even though it isnt perfect. 1. Turkiye & Saudis are at opposite poles of each other. Turkiye wants to being back the era of Khilafat & Ottoman Empire when it was the leader of Sunni world, not Saudi. 2. Saudis have very strong ties with Israel. While Turkiye hates Israel....Pakistani awaam dislikes Israel but the top dogs are ready to lick the feet of Jews. 3. Saudi & UAE have seen a stiff relations in last few months. UAE is seeing Saudi as a challenger to the financial monopoly which they had currently in Middle East. Saudi's NEOM city project is actually a challenge to UAE. Pak-UAE relations are also on their lowest end. 4. Turkiye & Pakistan sees animosity towards India, but Saudi's govt instance is neutral. 5. Saudi needs Pak troops to fight the battle in Yemen and maybe in Iran in need arises. Pakistan is hedging its bet that it successfully mediates Iran-US talks..while getting dollars from Saudi & new military toys from Turkiye against India. Basically, both Turkiye & Saudi wants to use Pakistan and its fauj. That's why I am suspecting that we may see an "untold, unwritten" alliance soon between India, UAE & Israel (include Greece as well). With Dassualt & Safran MRO in India, UAE may get some of the Rafales for their airforce (I know the deal between UAE-France for Rafale broke). It will have similar impact as Baghdad pact... 71 war they couldn't do anything.. if anything it expedited its expiry. Which means Saudis will do j@ck but fund P@rk overtly now. When it comes to India attacking P@k they will do their usual peace keeping drama with US along the way. P@k is the only Sunni Muslim fighting force in the world and it will act like the mercenary state it has always been since its inception. They will suck loans and money from Saudis and tech + weapons from and advancing Turkish military industrial complex. Neither Pak nor Saudi is coming to aid Turkroaches. Saudis anyways have Pak military and their elites in their pockets as henchmen and now with US security umbrella weakening it is more overt now that they need these guys as their foot soldiers and cannon fodders. The useful idiot that is a Subcontinent sunni M to their Arab masters. Cycle is this Pak takes loan/aid from Saudi> weapons+ tech from China, Turks, EU/NATO> Use vs India Saudis get their foot soldiers, a semblance of fighting force less dependency on US. Turkey gets little but Erdodog will hedge his bets regardless. He has to needle India at the same time as well. Same way India will do with Greece Cyprus singhvivek141 1
singhvivek141 Posted August 9 Posted August 9 (edited) It seems Indo-French defence partnership is going to overtake Indo-Israeli or Indo-Russian collaboration. Dassault, Safran, MBDA, Thales...all will tie up with private players in India for 114 Rafales. CCS approval is expected soon for GTRE-Safran 120kN engine for AMCA And to top if off India is gonna join FCAS program for the co development of 6th gen fighter jet. I hope, for FCAS partnership...we dont propose HALs name. We have seen the MMRCA & FGFA where HAL was the collaborator from India side...both failed. French arent gonna give their share their tech that easily. But I hope we will learn something from M88 & AL31FP engine which we can put forward to pause the monopoly of France. Edited August 9 by singhvivek141
singhvivek141 Posted August 10 Posted August 10 Ab hope they dont delay Super Sukhoi Upgrade, probably they were waiting for Virupaksha radar completion.
singhvivek141 Posted August 12 Posted August 12 Reports are suggesting that both C130J & A400M are out of race. First due to its weight Tonnage, second due to its cost. Embrayer C390 is likely to be the front runner, while doubling down as a fuel tanker refueller.
singhvivek141 Posted August 12 Posted August 12 And idrw is saying that it will be a barter deal as we will sell Tejas mk1a to Brazil.
bsriharsha Posted August 13 Posted August 13 7 hours ago, singhvivek141 said: And idrw is saying that it will be a barter deal as we will sell Tejas mk1a to Brazil. This was in the works for quite a while. Win-Win for both countries. indians get access to embraer technology, Could even lead to India building Civilian jets in India. Embraer does make some good passenger aircraft and in quite a lot of short haul flights, they actually make more sense than buying boeing's / airbuses.
singhvivek141 Posted August 13 Posted August 13 1 hour ago, bsriharsha said: This was in the works for quite a while. Win-Win for both countries. indians get access to embraer technology, Could even lead to India building Civilian jets in India. Embraer does make some good passenger aircraft and in quite a lot of short haul flights, they actually make more sense than buying boeing's / airbuses. I am actually surprised why did we let go the hands of Russian jet companies. Yeah, sure, risk of CAATSA is there for military weaponry. But manufacturing smaller planes like SJ100 would have helped a lot in the short distance aviation sector. Reg Tejas mk1a. If I ignore the engine fiasco, I think its a good aircraft for the interceptor role, its lightweight, agile and burns less fuel while performing the role of precision strikes. Most def experts evaluate it from the perspective of a Multirole Fighter, which it isnt. It can carry 2 Astra mk1 and 4-6 ASRAAMs on their dual wing pylons with a drop tank under the belly. It needs smaller runways to take off so thats another advantage. My only grip is our design process. Had NAL being agile enough to design a twin engine Tejas mk1b with Kaveri powering, it would had made a lot of sense replacing Jaguars.
bsriharsha Posted August 13 Posted August 13 1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said: Reg Tejas mk1a. If I ignore the engine fiasco, I think its a good aircraft for the interceptor role, its lightweight, agile and burns less fuel while performing the role of precision strikes. Most def experts evaluate it from the perspective of a Multirole Fighter, which it isnt. It can carry 2 Astra mk1 and 4-6 ASRAAMs on their dual wing pylons with a drop tank under the belly. It needs smaller runways to take off so thats another advantage. It's not a multirole fighter. The defense experts fail to understand that. It's a useful small aircraft which can do precision air strikes. It is never a Rafale let alone being a Su30MKI. Indian AF needs all three. singhvivek141 1
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