bsriharsha Posted August 13 Posted August 13 I think as far as SJ100 is concerned, Countries are concerned about the availability of spares as well as the lack of advancements of Russia in the civil aviaton fronts. It also needs specialized pilot training. Even Embraer needs that specialized pilot training, but that's comparitively easier than expecting Pilots to train in SJ100's. The MC21 is one where India needs to be watching, It does look like Russia has built a contender to 737-Max and A320-Neo.
singhvivek141 Posted August 13 Posted August 13 56 minutes ago, bsriharsha said: It's not a multirole fighter. The defense experts fail to understand that. It's a useful small aircraft which can do precision air strikes. It is never a Rafale let alone being a Su30MKI. Indian AF needs all three. Indeed. 1. Stealth platforms are needed to penetrate and blind/destroy the enemy radars. 2. Missile trucks like Su30MKI are needed to bomb the $hit of enemy hangars. 3. Rafale & Tejas mk2 are useful in performing the recee and strikes against enemy aircraft. 4. Tejas mk1a type LCAs are useful against countering the enemy aircrafts at a much lower cost.
singhvivek141 Posted August 13 Posted August 13 1 hour ago, bsriharsha said: I think as far as SJ100 is concerned, Countries are concerned about the availability of spares as well as the lack of advancements of Russia in the civil aviaton fronts. It also needs specialized pilot training. Even Embraer needs that specialized pilot training, but that's comparitively easier than expecting Pilots to train in SJ100's. The reason why I was asking for SJ100, is India have a great chance of setting up its manufacturing & MRO within India. Coz, Russian spare issue is exactly the reason why we should manufacture its components here. Unlike other Western companies, who will do xfer of tech in India, only when they decide to move on to next gen tech. Russia will share it with us to bypass the Western Sanction. For us, it will not only give an opportunity to learn the trades, but we can also export it to other nations who need cost effective airliners. Plus it will also help in connecting the border areas where full length runways cant be constructed due to geographical constraints. Shillong is an example. MC21 is an ambitious product, but it has to fight with Boeing & Airbus first. Low size airlines are easier way to build & capture the global market where Airbus & Boeing dont focus much.
bsriharsha Posted August 13 Posted August 13 1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said: Indeed. 1. Stealth platforms are needed to penetrate and blind/destroy the enemy radars. 2. Missile trucks like Su30MKI are needed to bomb the $hit of enemy hangars. 3. Rafale & Tejas mk2 are useful in performing the recee and strikes against enemy aircraft. 4. Tejas mk1a type LCAs are useful against countering the enemy aircrafts at a much lower cost. The integrated AWACS system that india has makes it really easy. A Tejas mk1 can essentially make independent decisions to fire based on the input given by a SU30MKI for example. I do think we should push ahead for more SU30 MKI. As far as civilian air is concerned , we got the deal with Embraer already.
bsriharsha Posted August 13 Posted August 13 9 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: MC21 is an ambitious product, but it has to fight with Boeing & Airbus first. Low size airlines are easier way to build & capture the global market where Airbus & Boeing dont focus much. I don't trust the Boeing one bit. Flew in one between Hyderabad and vishakapatnam recently (AIX) and even though it's a relatively new one , I never feel secure in them.
singhvivek141 Posted August 13 Posted August 13 1 hour ago, bsriharsha said: The integrated AWACS system that india has makes it really easy. A Tejas mk1 can essentially make independent decisions to fire based on the input given by a SU30MKI for example. I do think we should push ahead for more SU30 MKI. As far as civilian air is concerned , we got the deal with Embraer already. Unlikely that IAF will go for more Su30MKI. Focus is on AMCA, Ghatak & Tejas mk1a, Tejas mk2. We may order for replenishment through. Su30MKI massive RCS means it can easily be detected by enemy radars, hence it has to rely on AWACS to make standoff strikes, this will be eliminated by Virupaksha Radar..but it doesnt have in-built jamming pods, which means has to carry externally which will lead to loss of one hard point o carry weapons. In Op Sindoor, Rafale actually guarded Su30MKI's by its Spectra EW suite, and one Rafale which was hit was while saving the MKI. MoD rejected the new composite airframe structure for Su30MKI to reduce its RCS. So its likely to die it's slow death (unless geopolitics shift and we go into a full scale war).
bsriharsha Posted August 13 Posted August 13 Provided the Russians play ball , we might well have them agree to a total tech transfer of the engine. That knowledge can then be used for India's development as well. The su30mki is an inherently reliable machinery , yes... With a huge footprint as you pointed out.
bsriharsha Posted August 13 Posted August 13 We can well have the SU30mki launch missiles while in indian airspace and then go back. Doesn't matter if those planes are seen in the radar.
bsriharsha Posted August 13 Posted August 13 Where we failed was that we failed to anticipate the reach of the Pakistani missiles. In any case , we bombed their airfields to kingdom come after shooting down their awacs
singhvivek141 Posted August 14 Posted August 14 (edited) 11 minutes ago, mishra said: Think Anant Bhaiya has arrived in a Rolls Royce. Jai Ho. If its upto me...I would actually not let go Rolla Royce empty handed and would award them contract for TEDBF. There are plans that Indian Navy needs atleast 145 TEDBF. But Navy might initially order 60 odd jets first. But yeah, Rolls Royce can come under influence of US...Safran would be more independent geopolitically. Although, its a pipedream. In reality, we will go with Safran only...its MRO is setup in Hyderabad. We will have 150 Rafales in IAF & 26 in Indian Navy... Edited August 14 by singhvivek141
mishra Posted August 14 Posted August 14 (edited) 42 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: If its upto me...I would actually not let go Rolla Royce empty handed and would award them contract for TEDBF. There are plans that Indian Navy needs atleast 145 TEDBF. But Navy might initially order 60 odd jets first. But yeah, Rolls Royce can come under influence of US...Safran would be more independent geopolitically. Although, its a pipedream. In reality, we will go with Safran only...its MRO is setup in Hyderabad. We will have 150 Rafales in IAF & 26 in Indian Navy... RR and Anant mutual guarantee that engine will be built and used. Shows the level of distrust between GoI and foreign manufacturers Edited August 14 by mishra
singhvivek141 Posted August 14 Posted August 14 On 8/13/2026 at 2:36 PM, bsriharsha said: We can well have the SU30mki launch missiles while in indian airspace and then go back. Doesn't matter if those planes are seen in the radar. We need Su30MkI with Virupaksha radar...to look that far. Currently Su30MKI cant see that far due to its bar rods based PESA radar and is dependent on AWACS. Su30MKi no doubt is a fantastic jet, it can carry Rudram 3, Rudram 4, Astra mk3 missiles which no other jet can...in cricketing terms its the Kapil Dev of Indian Airforce. Can done everything its been asked for...but it needs upgrade, as the Kapil Dev is now ageing. When we can do upgrades on Mig29 and Jaguars...not sure why we delayed so much for Su30MKI.
singhvivek141 Posted August 15 Posted August 15 2 hours ago, ravishingravi said: Massive massive. Usually having a second alternative helps. It keeps the pressure on the bidding partner. Many times work is even distributed to the two players (Navy does this, 60% to L1 bidder, 40% to L2). Problem is our AMCA numbers arent that high to absorb 2 different orders. We may give at max 200 fighter jets order...which means 400 engine and counting 10-15% reserve it comes to around 440-460. Unless we give order to around 350-400 jets, which means around 800-900 engines...we wont be able to divide it enough to give both companies a chance to manufacture mass amount of engine. Rolls Royce engine quality is better than Safran. But the later offers more insulation to geopolitical shocks.
ravishingravi Posted August 16 Posted August 16 22 hours ago, singhvivek141 said: Usually having a second alternative helps. It keeps the pressure on the bidding partner. Many times work is even distributed to the two players (Navy does this, 60% to L1 bidder, 40% to L2). Problem is our AMCA numbers arent that high to absorb 2 different orders. We may give at max 200 fighter jets order...which means 400 engine and counting 10-15% reserve it comes to around 440-460. Unless we give order to around 350-400 jets, which means around 800-900 engines...we wont be able to divide it enough to give both companies a chance to manufacture mass amount of engine. Rolls Royce engine quality is better than Safran. But the later offers more insulation to geopolitical shocks. To your point singhvivek141 1
singhvivek141 Posted August 16 Posted August 16 Lack of self propelled artilley is a key gap which we have to bridge. K9 Vajra is in limited numbers, we need to order ATAGS, Tata MGS & Kalyani MGS. With 155mm being the standard..chances of inclusion of 105mm GARUDA is very less Hope the trials complete soon so that we can start inducting them. Hopefully Army doesnt come up with a last minute surprise like they did with Zorawar.
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