South Africa Tour of NZ

[vvvslaxman]

22 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

but they have same core who has been playing in the rotation for sometime and SA batting had 3 debutant and in total there were 4 debutant.

NZ is not a power hitting side unlike SA reserves. NZ is much better in ODIs. They were really lucky to get through to final. One once in a life time innings and bottle job from SA put them there. 

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, tapandrun said:

but they have same core who has been playing in the rotation for sometime and SA batting had 3 debutant and in total there were 4 debutant.

SA have a bigger pool and literally second best T20 league.  If not for generational choking and an ATG knock by Allen they likely would have been T20 champs this time around 

[tapandrun]

13 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

SA have a bigger pool and literally second best T20 league.  If not for generational choking and an ATG knock by Allen they likely would have been T20 champs this time around 

Ind has 8-3 record in last 2 years in t20is vs SA. Ind had 1 bad game where all the nut and bolt got lose. 187 was a chaseable total Ind just got stuck.

 

 

The match showed the cracks in Ind side with 3 Lh batters in top3, lack of useful ness of Sundar in white-balland Rinku's issue with spin.

 

In last 2 years if not all but most of the matches Ind lost were due to this senseless experiment, which also made team strong but can not do that at las phase of icc events. 

Edited March 26 by tapandrun

[Lone Wolf]

13 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

Ind has 8-3 record in last 2 years in t20is vs SA. Ind had 1 bad game where all the nut and bolt got lose. 187 was a chaseable total Ind just got stuck.

 

 

The match showed the cracks in Ind side with 3 Lh batters in top3, lack of useful ness of Sundar in white-balland Rinku's issue with spin.

 

In last 2 years if not all but most of the matches Ind lost were due to this senseless experiment, which also made team strong but can not do that at las phase of icc events. 

India vs SA in SA India has a massive edge. We have literally never lost a T20 series in SA.  Those tracks suit our stroke makers.

 

In India we can still be vulnerable against better attacks.

[tapandrun]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

NZ is not a power hitting side unlike SA reserves. NZ is much better in ODIs. They were really lucky to get through to final. One once in a life time innings and bottle job from SA put them there. 

In totality Nz is looking like the strongest side going into the Odi world cup, v.settled odi group. Decent fire-power with batting. Batters who can play with high tempo and have good pace bowling options.Good mix of LH and rh batters.

 

Santner has now improved his batting alot so they bat deep and he is already one of the best Las bowler 

[tapandrun]

36 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

India vs SA in SA India has a massive edge. We have literally never lost a T20 series in SA.  Those tracks suit our stroke makers.

 

In India we can still be vulnerable against better attacks.

Yes, anything can happen on a day, but Ind has 6-2 record vs SA in Ind in last 3 yrs. Not saying SA is not a strong t20i side but Ind is v.strong too. Ind won this wc with their best batter and best bowler both having horrid time.

 

Ind had 3 early SA's wkts but SA were able to counter punch and counter attack and while Ind was not able to counter attack when they were batting.

This whole wc is about being able to counter attack and able to make comeback, teams who have done that were able to do well in the games. This is how new t20 will be played teams with ability to do better counter-attack will do better. This is high risk and high reward game now but will req. bit of method to it. After tht loss Ind score 250 three times and chased near 200 target<-- counter punching. 

 

Ind vs SA -- SA counter attacked and won

Pak vs Eng -- Eng counter-attacked and won

Eng vs Ind -- Eng counter-attacked nearly won and Ind counter attacked and won the game

Pak VS SL--SL counter attacked nearly won

NZ vs SA -- Nz counter-attacked and won

 

SA may have even lost to Afgn in this wc. 

 

 

Edited March 26 by tapandrun

[Lone Wolf]

55 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

Yes, anything can happen on a day, but Ind has 6-2 record vs SA in Ind in last 3 yrs. Not saying SA is not a strong t20i side but Ind is v.strong too. Ind won this wc with their best batter and best bowler both having horrid time.

 

Ind had 3 early SA's wkts but SA were able to counter punch and counter attack and while Ind was not able to counter attack when they were batting.

This whole wc is about being able to counter attack and able to make comeback, teams who have done that were able to do well in the games. This is how new t20 will be played teams with ability to do better counter-attack will do better. This is high risk and high reward game now but will req. bit of method to it. After tht loss Ind score 250 three times and chased near 200 target<-- counter punching. 

 

Ind vs SA -- SA counter attacked and won

Pak vs Eng -- Eng counter-attacked and won

Eng vs Ind -- Eng counter-attacked nearly won and Ind counter attacked and won the game

Pak VS SL--SL counter attacked nearly won

NZ vs SA -- Nz counter-attacked and won

 

SA may have even lost to Afgn in this wc. 

 

 

They simply had a bowling attack to trouble our batters.  All bowlers with high pace and higher release points whose change ups don't suit us and maybe even spinners for that matter.

 

An India v SA final would have been mouth watering to watch.

Our batting vs their bowling.

Clearly best two sides in the tournament by and large 

[rollingstoned]

It was painful to watch Neesham struggle to connect even a single ball properly.  Been a good servant but they need to look past him and likes of Conway now. 

[Suhaan]

23 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

They simply had a bowling attack to trouble our batters.  All bowlers with high pace and higher release points whose change ups don't suit us and maybe even spinners for that matter.

 

An India v SA final would have been mouth watering to watch.

Our batting vs their bowling.

Clearly best two sides in the tournament by and large 

SA always do well in bilaterals and yes they would have made the final competitive 

Edited March 26 by Suhaan

[tapandrun]

3 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

It was painful to watch Neesham struggle to connect even a single ball properly.  Been a good servant but they need to look past him and likes of Conway now. 

Neesham has improved alot as a bowler, NZ will need a fast bowling allrounder in SA for the wc , they have tried Smith who is still to prove himself as batter at intnl level.

 

Conway is back in form in Odis, batted well vs Eng (odi series ) and he was 2nd highest run getter in this t20i series vs SA. He is the 2nd wk and opener. It gives Nz flexibility with him and latham .Nz can have both in 11 or have 1  and add some other player.

 

[tapandrun]

Alot of ppl and experts are saying how such a methodical and calculative side like Nz make so many mistakes with their plan vs Ind in the finals.

 

Think the assessment is not correct, nz had a v.good plan vs Ind. They saw Ind reach 250 twice and chased 200. 

nz both openers where in v.good form and both do better in chasing with better sr and avg.add mitchell to this as well he does well chasing.

 

In last 2 years nz have nearly 65% win while chasing. and they won their last game vs SA chasing too which was next title contender after Ind.

 

So winning the toss and fielding is a good call for Nz based on their own strength and weaknesses.<-- Batters have better record while chasing, team overall have better win% by big margin while chasing.

 

Now talking about using the off-spinner for just 1 over, this seems to be v.debated move. Its always a punt to bowl off-spinner in pp, they took the punt for 1 over, so the plan was to test if they can get abhishek with in 1 over of off-spin and if not then go on try taking out sanju early , nz has seen even getting abhishek early does not stop Ind from getting 200+ so they wanted to get sanju and if they had sanju's wkt they would have bowled further with off-spin to Kishan and Abhishek giving them a good chance to get 2 wkts : sanju and  Abhisesk<-- think this is a v.solid plan.

 

They wanted to take wkt of in-form batter (sanju)so they brought 2 new ball bowlers in Duffy and Henry and then bowl off spin to kishan and Abhishek.

 

This is a v.solid plan for a finals, attacking plan with defence built-in by default, its just abhishek is bit diff batter just need to play 20 balls to win the game for the side

 

 

Edited March 28 by tapandrun

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, tapandrun said:

Alot of ppl and experts are saying how such a methodical and calculative side like Nz make so many mistakes with their plan vs Ind in the finals.

 

Think the assessment is not correct, nz had a v.good plan vs Ind. They saw Ind reach 250 twice and chased 200. 

nz both openers where in v.good form and both do better in chasing with better sr and avg.add mitchell to this as well he does well chasing.

 

In last 2 years nz have nearly 65% win while chasing. and they won their last game vs SA chasing too which was next title contender after Ind.

 

So winning the toss and fielding is a good call for Nz based on their own strength and weaknesses.<-- Batters have better record while chasing, team overall have better win% by big margin while chasing.

 

Now talking about using the off-spinner for just 1 over, this seems to be v.debated move. Its always a punt to bowl off-spinner in pp, they took the punt for 1 over, so the plan was to test if they can get abhishek with in 1 over of off-spin and if not then go on try taking out sanju early , nz has seen even getting abhishek early does not stop Ind from getting 200+ so they wanted to get sanju and if they had sanju's wkt they would have bowled further with off-spin to Kishan and Abhishek giving them a good chance to get 2 wkts : sanju and  Abhisesk<-- think this is a v.solid plan.

 

They wanted to take wkt of in-form batter (sanju)so they brought 2 new ball bowlers in Duffy and Henry and then bowl off spin to kishan and Abhishek.

 

This is a v.solid plan for a finals, attacking plan with defence built-in by default, its just abhishek is bit diff batter just need to play 20 balls to win the game for the side

 

 

 

The mistakes were after effects of the shellacking they got in the bilaterals. Remember Santner saying "We have to score 300 runs against these guys. They got spooked so early.  A typical run of the mill India would have folded . We chased 200 in 15 overs, 150 in 10 overs.  They went with that typical Mumbai Indian strategy of 1 over spell for 4 new bowlers before settling down. But this is not the top order that has KL Rahul, Kohli. These guys know only one way. THey probably banked on India committing harakiri like SA who gifted their wickets to rubbish balls from McConchie, Rachin, Neesham.  We also gifted wickets to Neesham. But damage had already been done. If India hits their strap no team in the wolrd can do anything with any kind of strategy. We have showns this to all the teams in the world in recent times. They have developed an aura. 

 

Besides when you play against anyone it is T20. When you play against India it is T16 even with Varun's bad form. So odds are heavily stacked against you. You just hope Indians panic and commit suicide like we did in 2023. But we had 6 tailenders in that technically. Not this one. 

[tapandrun]

37 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

The mistakes were after effects of the shellacking they got in the bilaterals. Remember Santner saying "We have to score 300 runs against these guys. They got spooked so early.  A typical run of the mill India would have folded . We chased 200 in 15 overs, 150 in 10 overs.  They went with that typical Mumbai Indian strategy of 1 over spell for 4 new bowlers before settling down. But this is not the top order that has KL Rahul, Kohli. These guys know only one way. THey probably banked on India committing harakiri like SA who gifted their wickets to rubbish balls from McConchie, Rachin, Neesham.  We also gifted wickets to Neesham. But damage had already been done. If India hits their strap no team in the wolrd can do anything with any kind of strategy. We have showns this to all the teams in the world in recent times. They have developed an aura. 

 

Besides when you play against anyone it is T20. When you play against India it is T16 even with Varun's bad form. So odds are heavily stacked against you. You just hope Indians panic and commit suicide like we did in 2023. But we had 6 tailenders in that technically. Not this one. 

Ind win% is 80+ both chasing and batting 1st so there is no weak innings. SA also played on their strength in the game vs Ind they have higher win% batting 1st.

Though it was a chase-able target but Ind collapsed. SA would nt. have been confident after mid-game but Ind batting disnt showed up, or say it showed the cracks in the side with Sundar in for Axar not having sanju to open.Even in past 2 years Ind has lost if not all most of the game with such expmts only but those experiment have made every player a better version of themselves.

 

Nz did not spooked they just went by the data and a solid plan and experts are not just seeing it because most of them do surface level analysis. Nz played on their strength chasing they have 65 win % while setting up traget it goes to something under 40%.

 

They tried taking sanju's wkt early so they can get Abhishek later.

 

Ind won this wc with their top batter and top bowler having horrid time. they were dropping catches yet they won. Imagine any other team dropping 3/4 catches and having their best bowler and best batter losing the form terribly 

 

 

Edited March 28 by tapandrun

[vvvslaxman]

11 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

Ind win% is 80+ both chasing and batting 1st so there is no weak innings. SA also played on their strength in the game vs Ind they have higher win% batting 1st.

Though it was a chase-able target but Ind collapsed. SA would have have been confident after mid-game but Ind batting disnt showed up, or say it showed the cracks in the side with Sundar in for Axar not having sanju to open.Even in past 2 years Ind has lost if not all most of the game with such expmts only but those experiment have made every player a better version of themselves.

 

Nz did not spooked they just went by the data and a solid plan and experts are not just seeing it because most of them do surface level analysis. Nz played on their strength chasing they have 65 win % while setting up traget it goes to something under 40%.

 

They tried taking sanju's wkt early do they can get Abhishek later.

 

Ind won this wc with their top batter and top bowler having horrid time. they were dropping catches yet they won. Imagine any other team dropping 3/4 catches and having their best bowler and best batter losing the form terribly 

 

 

The spooking i am talking about their plan to resort to slower balls way too early. They kinda sensed both Sanju and Abhishek hit the strap. They could sense the nightmare and panicked. This is what we talked about in another therad. When you play NZ attack is the best way. We did that in 2023 twice. Rohit went after Henry. Later in semi final Iyer thrashed them. In CT final before ball started gripping Rohit sharma did all the damage. But in 2019 on a damp pitch on day 2 we just folded .