Is Washington Sundar honestly the best off spinner in India?

[vvvslaxman]

45 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

Sundar is not a bowler anymore. At best he can be termed as a part-time occasional bowler in Tests. His bowling has dropped off steeply over the last couple of years.

Same with Jaddu. Averaging 38 since beginning of 2025. 

[Gollum]

16 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Same with Jaddu. Averaging 38 since beginning of 2025. 

From where does Jaddu come in the picture? This thread is about offies/Sundar.

 

Jaddu is still a gun test cricketer, after all these years. Was our best bowler against RSA.

Edited May 27 by Gollum

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, Gollum said:

Fron where does Jaddu come in the picture? This thread is about offies/

Sundar.

 

Jaddu is still a gun test cricketer, after all these years. 

I mean both spinners are crap compared to spinners going around in the world.  Both focus more on batting. 

[Gollum]

Just now, vvvslaxman said:

I mean both spinners are crap compared to spinners going around in the world.  Both focus more on batting. 

Bigger problem is Kuldeep being garbage. 

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, Gollum said:

Bigger problem is Kuldeep being garbage. 

 

Let us see how guys like Suthar, DUbey go. If they do well Kuldeep's test career may be over. He is unable to manage multi format. He may retire as an LOI specialist. 

[singhvivek141]

Multi format is the problem.
Sundar can really become a capable Test spinner...he just need to focus on one format.
Kotian or Saransh, while they can decent for their teams...don't think they're capable for the rigors of longest format. Kotian isn't even the best spinner for his state team. Saransh is a late bloomer and while he is top of his game, he is already 33-34.
Have said this before, Sundar can really take the note from the Ashwin's career trajectory and become like him. His batting is better than Ashwin, his bowling can improve if he is picked in IPL for the right team.

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

Multi format is the problem.
Sundar can really become a capable Test spinner...he just need to focus on one format.
Kotian or Saransh, while they can decent for their teams...don't think they're capable for the rigors of longest format. Kotian isn't even the best spinner for his state team. Saransh is a late bloomer and while he is top of his game, he is already 33-34.
Have said this before, Sundar can really take the note from the Ashwin's career trajectory and become like him. His batting is better than Ashwin, his bowling can improve if he is picked in IPL for the right team.

No he cannot become a capable test spinner.

 

Ashwin is among greatest Indian bowlers and would be on Mount Rushmore for all players from.

 

 

[bowl_out]

13 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Bowling prowess

 

 

Delightful watch. And this is from 2025, not 1947.

 

The drift on the second wicket was beautiful.

The question is why is Gill not using his bowling in GT, when he treats him as a front line spinner in Tests

[deathmonger]

9 hours ago, Gollum said:

Bigger problem is Kuldeep being garbage. 

This is the big issue.

 

Sundar is like the Axar 3rd spinner when Ash-Jaddu were great.

 

Now Jaddu has declined and all 3 of Sundar, Axar and Jaddu are basically 3rd spinner level. And Kuldeep has been unable to become the lead. Siraj also poor in India.

 

In the 2015-21 heyday Indian bowling had no weak links - spin or pace.

Edited May 27 by deathmonger

[BacktoCricaddict]

3 hours ago, putrevus said:

No he cannot become a capable test spinner.

 

Ashwin is among greatest Indian bowlers and would be on Mount Rushmore for all players from.

 

 

At this point, I'd take him if he's only 25% of Ashwin. 

[putrevus]

24 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

At this point, I'd take him if he's only 25% of Ashwin. 

Why, India cannot come up with better spinner or bits and pieces player like him.

[vvvslaxman]

4 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

At this point, I'd take him if he's only 25% of Ashwin. 

 

It is all about Balance. India did not play Sundar at Headingley. Jadeja batted 7. Then we had Thakur, Bumrah, Siraj, Prasidh.  Let us look what happened

 

India went from 430/3 -> 471 all out in first innings lost 7 wickets for 41 runs

India went from  333/4 -> 364 all out in the 2nd innings lost 6 wickets for 31 runs

 

A winnable test was lost by India.

 

In the 2nd test

 

India  went from 211/5 -> 587 all out in the first innings except this time. GIll added 144 runs with Sundar

 

We could bat England out of the match.  Once Sundar came in  we won 2 thanks to his contribution, almost won 1 with his bowling, drew 1 with his batting. Without Sundar that series was 0-5 written all over for India.

 

[BacktoCricaddict]

27 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

It is all about Balance. India did not play Sundar at Headingley. Jadeja batted 7. Then we had Thakur, Bumrah, Siraj, Prasidh.  Let us look what happened

 

India went from 430/3 -> 471 all out in first innings lost 7 wickets for 41 runs

India went from  333/4 -> 364 all out in the 2nd innings lost 6 wickets for 31 runs

 

A winnable test was lost by India.

 

In the 2nd test

 

India  went from 211/5 -> 587 all out in the first innings except this time. GIll added 144 runs with Sundar

 

We could bat England out of the match.  Once Sundar came in  we won 2 thanks to his contribution, almost won 1 with his bowling, drew 1 with his batting. Without Sundar that series was 0-5 written all over for India.

 

 

Bit-by-bit, he has pieced together an MVP resume. 

[vvvslaxman]

11 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

 

Bit-by-bit, he has pieced together an MVP resume. 

 

That is why team awarded him the MVP status.  ESpecially that drawn match was an insane achievement because Pant got injured was not available. That was the last recognizable batting pair.

[SecondSlip]

@vvvslaxman

 

Be gone with your Tamil bias! 
 

This thread is about Sundar the test bowler but you keep talking about his batting!
 

It means that you also know that his bowling is nowhere near test class! 

[vvvslaxman]

4 minutes ago, SecondSlip said:

@vvvslaxman

 

Be gone with your Tamil bias! 
 

This thread is about Sundar the test bowler but you keep talking about his batting!
 

It means that you also know that his bowling is nowhere near test class! 

 

If i have Tamil bias i would be rooting for him in T20, ODI team too.  How was he used in tests?  At the MCG brought on after 75 overs.. or so. He took 2 wickets after that. That pattern continued right through England series. At Lords he was the one who actually brought India back into game by dismissing Root and Brook. India just had to chase 197 runs.  Although he was bowling well. Based on my observation they are treating him as a batsman who will  bowl occasionally. That is why he batted at 3.  He is treated as a batsman in the side.  They don't want waste a spot on dedicated off spinner given the 3 seamers are crap with batting. You have to understand first why they are playing him. You assume he is being played for his off spin. That is not the case. If he was dud with bat he would not be  picked.

[deathmonger]

Like I said Sundar is not the problem. I am actually okay with GG playing Jadeja Sundar Reddy 6-8. Structure is good even though Sundar/Reddy not fully developed yet.

 

The non Bumrah bowlers are hot and cold.

[BacktoCricaddict]

17 hours ago, SecondSlip said:

@vvvslaxman

 

Be gone with your Tamil bias! 
 

This thread is about Sundar the test bowler but you keep talking about his batting!
 

It means that you also know that his bowling is nowhere near test class! 

Meh ... someone else dragged his batting into this thread, opening the door to some vehement defence of his value to the team.

 

Having said that, it must also be recognized that he has shown glimpses of off-spin excellence (NZ series where we got thrashed, a couple of innings in Eng etc.). Given that test-spinners do better with rhythm and persistence, it is too early to write him off. He has the potential to be good, but can't show it if he is only given 10 overs here and 15 overs there. 

 

Now, if he can only improve his fielding .... :-( 

Edited May 28 by BacktoCricaddict

[Gollum]

Washi ko white ball se baahar rakho. Make him play every FC game, he needs 100s of overs under his belt every year. Test cricket isn't a joke where we expect someone to turn up just like that. Look at Harmer who has toiled so hard in county for last 2 decades, no wonder he looked a class apart against us last year. 

 

Atm no offie in India warrants selection just based on bowling. Kotian also is a work in progress. 

 

Our spin stocks are in bad shape atm. Next couple of cycles, we should just play on batting beauties and if needed, seam friendly tracks for home tests. Don't expect whitewashes like 2013-23 but we should be able to win most series, with more draws, a la 2000s. 

Edited May 28 by Gollum

[BacktoCricaddict]

4 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Washi ko white ball se baahar rakho. Make him play every FC game, he needs 100s of overs under his belt every year

Aur red ball ka pagaar baDhao. You cannot keep someone out of franchise cricket unless you provide a comparable income in other areas.