Has GT shown the world, boring but effective is still the way to go?

[maniac]

Don’t know what @zen is really arguing here. He himself said he would like to get rid of the dead wood middle order- Tewatiya, SRK etc or even aging Butler, would like to change the top order? So what is the difference between what others are saying? It is a safe approach heavy team and has a good bowling attack and is run very efficiently for them to go far however may always not be sustainable method  what exactly are you disagreeing on?

Edited May 31 by maniac

[maniac]

2 minutes ago, zen said:

I think only those who played like 80% of their matches in the 2000-2025 period should be considered.

 

If Sachin played 80% of his matches in this period, he deserves to be on this list. He did not even play in the 50% of the period. 
 

Lara and Warne retired in 2006-7 so not enough games or time to be considered. 

so you 100% agree with the list ?

[zen]

1 minute ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

ESPN can put him in any list they want or also call him the best T20 batter of the decade. Doesn't change the fact that when the going gets tough, SKY doesn't show up. Saw that in 2022 WT20, 2024 WT20, 2026 WT20, and Asia Cup.

 

All SKY has done is give cringe statements in the pressers and chew gum. But when it comes to cricket, other than meaningless bilaterals he hasn't done anything.

He is still among the best T20 players. You probably wrote again Abishek and Samson too before they fired.

 

People select teams based on potential, experience, skills, etc., not stuff like he did not fire in X game. If so Tendulkar would not played over a Gambhir. A team has all kinds of players per its needs.

[zen]

1 minute ago, maniac said:

so you 100% agree with the list ?

Why would I need to agree or disagree with a list? I have only skimmed through the list. 

[maniac]

3 minutes ago, zen said:

Why would I need to agree or disagree with a list? I have only skimmed through the list. 

I didn’t even bother to look at the other list you posted  though which said SKY deserved to  be in the ESPN WT20 2024 squad because I followed the worldcup and SKY did fail mostly. I was only pointing flaws in your logic.

Edited May 31 by maniac

[zen]

3 minutes ago, maniac said:

Don’t know what @zen is really arguing here. He himself said he would like to get rid of the dead wood middle order- Tewatiya, SRK etc or even aging Butler, would like to change the top order? So what is the difference between what others are saying? It is a safe approach heavy team and has a good bowling attack and is run very efficiently for them to go far however may always not be sustainable method  what exactly are you disagreeing on?

They are past their best or just not consistent enough.
 

However, the framing here is such that GT build a team in certain way to deliberately have a weak middle order. That is not the case. It has a history of being unconventional like batting Hardik at 3-4 (people laughed at that till he succeeded), picking Miller (considered washed up), opening with Saha (considered as another washed up player), etc.  

 

You are an SRH fan to realize that your team depends on openers too. Rarely does SRH win when the openers or top 3 are out for cheap. On top of that the bowling is relatively weak. 

 

A team can build in a variety of ways. GT has always used unconventional means whether it is putting Hardik at 3-4, backing Miller, backing Tewatia, using Shami (again considered not a good T20 bowler), using Saha, and so on. It even brought back Mohit Sharma who went to help the team reach the final in 2023. 
 

Using Subdar at 4 in the same unconventional thought as using Hardik at 3-4, and so on. GT does that. This time, it reached the final too so credit to the team! 

 

[zen]

7 minutes ago, maniac said:

I didn’t even bother to look at the other list you posted  though which said SKY deserved to  be in the ESPN WT20 2024 squad because I followed the worldcup and SKY did fail mostly. I was only pointing flaws in your logic.

okay but my point is that a same player can be looked differently so when someone say X did nothing in this completion, X’s peers would rate him as he did something. 

There is no way in my book that you can pick Iyer over SKY if both are inform and fighting for the same spot in T20s. SKY is an established T20 Indian modern great based on his skills. 
 

Other issue is about Iyer fans attacking Gill, SKY, etc, the team India captains, for Iyer. 

 

 

[Ultimate_Game]

2 hours ago, zen said:

okay but my point is that a same player can be looked differently so when someone say X did nothing in this completion, X’s peers would rate him as he did something. 

There is no way in my book that you can pick Iyer over SKY if both are inform and fighting for the same spot in T20s. SKY is an established T20 Indian modern great based on his skills. 
 

Other issue is about Iyer fans attacking Gill, SKY, etc, the team India captains, for Iyer. 

 

 

 

They're calling out SKY and Gill coz they haven't shown up in any big match till now. Gill has failed in 2 WTC finals, 2023 WC final, Asia Cup final. SKY has failed in almost all of the big matches across 3 Wt20s and Asia Cup. He's "one of the best T20 batters" based on his exploits in meaningless bilaterals and minnows.

 

Iyer OTOH was the top middle order batter in 2023 WC and 2025 CT. Neither Gill or SKY have done anything of note comparable to what Iyer has done. You can simply look at stats or ESPN team of the tourney and SKY may look great. But those of us who actually saw the tourneys know what he did and how big of a liability he was.

 

You can continue arguing SKY is a "great T20 batter", and that GT doesn't have a problem with their team composition and approach of being top heavy. So be it.

Edited May 31 by Ultimate_Game

[vvvslaxman]

2 hours ago, maniac said:

Don’t know what @zen is really arguing here. He himself said he would like to get rid of the dead wood middle order- Tewatiya, SRK etc or even aging Butler, would like to change the top order? So what is the difference between what others are saying? It is a safe approach heavy team and has a good bowling attack and is run very efficiently for them to go far however may always not be sustainable method  what exactly are you disagreeing on?

It is one thing carrying T20 specialists and them not making runs but GT has opposite of T20 speicialists or totally washed up T20 specialists. It is like Mizoram team, Aruncahl pradesh team.  In a country where many potentially good players struggling to find a spot they have Sharukh, Sundar and Tewatia.  

 

[zen]

31 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

They're calling out SKY and Gill coz they haven't shown up in any big match till now. Gill has failed in 2 WTC finals, 2023 WC final, Asia Cup final. SKY has failed in almost all of the big matches across 3 Wt20s and Asia Cup. He's "one of the best T20 batters" based on his exploits in meaningless bilaterals and minnows.

 

Iyer OTOH was the top middle order batter in 2023 WC and 2025 CT. Neither Gill or SKY have done anything of note comparable to what Iyer has done. You can simply look at stats or ESPN team of the tourney and SKY may look great. But those of us who actually saw the tourneys know what he did and how big of a liability he was.

 

You can continue arguing SKY is a "great T20 batter", and that GT doesn't have a problem with their team composition and approach of being top heavy. So be it.

It appears as if you just pick and chose issues irrespective of the team (IPL, India, whatever) if it is not your favorite player! 

Earlier people were even targeting Bumrah for not showing up  

 

[Ultimate_Game]

1 hour ago, zen said:

It appears as if you just pick and chose issues irrespective of the team (IPL, India, whatever) if it is not your favorite player! 

Earlier people were even targeting Bumrah for not showing up  

 

 

I haven't picked any issues. I've simply stated what OP and many others have called out. You're the one who got touchy and are doubling down on what most can see that GT is a top heavy team relying heavily on openers. Then you came up with SKY is great despite him not showing up in any big match.

 

And now you're bringing in Bumrah from I don't know where. Looks like you're the one who's upset at GT losing the final and are bringing up all sorts of topics. I've simply stated GT is like the Indian or RCB team of old under Kohli and they also failed in knockouts just the way GT did. Simple as that.

 

But hey bring in SKY, Bumrah or any other random topic it's fine by me 

[Manucrick]

Just like old indian t20i team exposed badly on final