Gollum Posted June 1 Posted June 1 1 minute ago, tapandrun said: kanhai was in 75 wc winning team if not wrong ?? Kalicharran may not be that good but no other team had this kind of batting Kanhai was 40 in 75 WC. Played only 7 ODIs in total.
putrevus Posted June 1 Posted June 1 7 minutes ago, Gollum said: Wasn't GOAT WI also top-heavy? Greenidge, Haynes, Viv and Lloyd in top 4, shaky MO after that. 2000s Aus more well balanced with the likes of Steve Waugh, Bevan, Symonds, Clarke, Watson, Hussey manning the 5-7 positions. This is why they were tougher to beat IMO. Roberts and WK Murray won against Pakistan with 60 odd runs stand for 9 wicket in 1975 world cup in a group match.Clive lloyd and Viv scored 100s in their two wins. Aussies won in 2003 based on their top order firing in finals, again in 2007 and 2023.2015 and 1999 was won by bowlers by bowling out other team for less than 140. If opener Samson did not score runs, India was not winning world t20 either. You will have Maxwell or Kapil Dev type innings but those are not normal. Bowlers have to sometimes win matches which did not happen in 2023 but it happened in 1983.
putrevus Posted June 1 Posted June 1 5 minutes ago, Gollum said: Kanhai was 40 in 75 WC. Played only 7 ODIs in total. Kanhai and Lloyd were primary scorers in 1975 finals. tapandrun 1
putrevus Posted June 1 Posted June 1 (edited) 20 minutes ago, tapandrun said: Yes Ind had solid batters till #5 if they have 1 more batter +1 more allrounder who can bat there would have been more fight in the side in the finals. Aus always got the balance, they do not rely on just top order 2/3 players and yes their top order always performs in big games which is where they are v.v.good. Yes condition today are not same as 2011 but, there should be a balance in the side where team bat 7/8 and have at-least 6 bowling options. Having more than 6 options means team can hide a bowler who is nt having a good day and optimally use the top bowler when needed. They had Pandya but he got injured, otherwise he would have batted in place of SKY. Samething happened in 2019 they had Dhawan who was their big match player, he got injured and KL Rahul was made to open only to fail. I disagree, if India had gotten Head out cheaply, India was winning that match.Rohit's captaincy plus spinners were atrocious, Rohit never had belief that they could defend that total. That idiot did not even have slips, what was he thinking, he could defend that total. Edited June 1 by putrevus tapandrun 1
Gollum Posted June 1 Posted June 1 3 minutes ago, putrevus said: Roberts and WK Murray won against Pakistan with 60 odd runs stand for 9 wicket in 1975 world cup in a group match.Clive lloyd and Viv scored 100s in their two wins. I think lack of MO cost them in 80s. 3 minutes ago, putrevus said: Aussies won in 2003 based on their top order firing in finals, again in 2007 and 2023.2015 and 1999 was won by bowlers by bowling out other team for less than 140. But their MO often stepped up, like against SL in 03 SF, the top order collapsed, and Symonds scored 90.
putrevus Posted June 1 Posted June 1 (edited) 6 hours ago, Gollum said: I think lack of MO cost them in 80s. But their MO often stepped up, like against SL in 03 SF, the top order collapsed, and Symonds scored 90. But Symonds was their allrounder, we did have Pandya but he got injured.He would have done lot better than SKY with both bat and ball. WI 1983 team IMO was very strong ODI team which lost in finals had everything, they could bat till number 11 Garner who could handle bat.They just had a bad day, they would beat 99/100 India on that wicket. Lloyd was injured while batting that helped a lot. 1987 they were not the same force Edited June 1 by putrevus tapandrun 1
Gollum Posted June 1 Posted June 1 (edited) 1 minute ago, putrevus said: But Symonds was their allrounder, we did have Pandya but he got injured.He would have done lot better than SKY with both bat and ball. Remember Pandya was keeping out Shami in initial games. Had he not got injured, Shami may not have featured. Edited June 1 by Gollum
putrevus Posted June 1 Posted June 1 4 minutes ago, Gollum said: Remember Pandya was keeping out Shami in initial games. Had he not got injured, Shami may not have featured. So true.Same mistake they did in 2019, Siraj and Bhuvi played over him. Gollum 1
Gollum Posted June 1 Posted June 1 (edited) 5 minutes ago, putrevus said: So true.Same mistake they did in 2019, Siraj and Bhuvi played over him. Shami is an ODI giant, WC stats comparable to McGrath and Akram. Possibly even better than them because of the flatter pitches these days. Insanity to have him as an afterthought, when we had mediocrities like Siraj and Bhuvi. Multiple captains, TMs messed up by placing trust on a loser like Bhuvi instead of this champion. Edited June 1 by Gollum rollingstoned, New guy and putrevus 3
Suhaan Posted June 1 Posted June 1 38 minutes ago, putrevus said: Roberts and WK Murray won against Pakistan with 60 odd runs stand for 9 wicket in 1975 world cup in a group match.Clive lloyd and Viv scored 100s in their two wins. Aussies won in 2003 based on their top order firing in finals, again in 2007 and 2023.2015 and 1999 was won by bowlers by bowling out other team for less than 140. If opener Samson did not score runs, India was not winning world t20 either. You will have Maxwell or Kapil Dev type innings but those are not normal. Bowlers have to sometimes win matches which did not happen in 2023 but it happened in 1983. Batsmen failed big time on that wicket,bowlers were not getting out Aus on a dewy surface Rohit's 3rd captaincy added salt to the injury
Nikhil_cric Posted June 1 Posted June 1 46 minutes ago, Gollum said: Shami is an ODI giant, WC stats comparable to McGrath and Akram. Possibly even better than them because of the flatter pitches these days. Insanity to have him as an afterthought, when we had mediocrities like Siraj and Bhuvi. Multiple captains, TMs messed up by placing trust on a loser like Bhuvi instead of this champion. They flopped by playing Chahal ahead of Shami on a seaming pitch. Not Bhuvi. We missed the extra fast bowler. Gollum 1
Gollum Posted June 1 Posted June 1 1 minute ago, Nikhil_cric said: They flopped by playing Chahal ahead of Shami on a seaming pitch. Not Bhuvi. We missed the extra fast bowler. Agree. Chahal was another useless guy. Funny thing is earlier in 2019, we played an ODI series in NZ, won 4-1 with Shami MOTS. Nikhil_cric and rollingstoned 2
putrevus Posted June 1 Posted June 1 7 minutes ago, Gollum said: Agree. Chahal was another useless guy. Funny thing is earlier in 2019, we played an ODI series in NZ, won 4-1 with Shami MOTS. Kuldeep is another guy who never does anything well under pressure.Ashwin could have been better option given all their LHB. Gollum 1
Gollum Posted June 1 Posted June 1 (edited) 10 minutes ago, putrevus said: Kuldeep is another guy who never does anything well under pressure.Ashwin could have been better option given all their LHB. Kuldeep has proved to be the biggest disappointment. The expectation was that he would take the lead spinner's role when Ashwin/Jadeja got old. But he couldn't rise to the occasion, 3rd spinner hi raha. Some players no matter how talented can't rise to the occasion, and take responsibility. Anybody can be supporting cast but when you are thrust with responsibility, when all eyes are on you, only a select few can handle that...like Kohli/Rohit in white ball even in their old age, Ashwin/Jaddu in tests. Sure the main cast also have their share of failures, laurels ke saath criticism bhi milta hai....but these side characters always escape criticism and scrutiny. Edited June 1 by Gollum putrevus 1
AKane Posted June 1 Posted June 1 (edited) 3 hours ago, putrevus said: Roberts and WK Murray won against Pakistan with 60 odd runs stand for 9 wicket in 1975 world cup in a group match They did..... they were helped by the fact that the main bowler for the Paks was at that time Sarfraz Nawaz and he completed his 12 overs while getting his last wicket which was the 9th wicket to fall. Besides Sarfraz Nawaz they had no world class bowlers. Imran was yet to come on the scene. Till Sarfraz was there - they could build prssure bowling. Once he was done... they were not international class. Asif Masood averaged 41 odd per wicket in tests. Pervez Mir and Naseer never played a test. They had some medium pace and part time spinners in Miandad and Wasim Raja and Mushtaq Mohd bowling to the last wicket as far as I recall listening commentary on radio then. Mushtaq Mohd later became a decent spinner but was not one at the time of the WC. Edited June 1 by AKane putrevus, Gollum and rollingstoned 3
vvvslaxman Posted June 1 Posted June 1 3 hours ago, Gollum said: Wasn't GOAT WI also top-heavy? Greenidge, Haynes, Viv and Lloyd in top 4, shaky MO after that. 2000s Aus more well balanced with the likes of Steve Waugh, Bevan, Symonds, Clarke, Watson, Hussey manning the 5-7 positions. This is why they were tougher to beat IMO. Dujon and GOmez were more than capable. In some amtches Gus Logie. Also down the order they all could bat. But India had better bits and pieces players in 1983
Gollum Posted June 1 Posted June 1 15 minutes ago, AKane said: They did..... they were helped by the fact that the main bowler for the Paks was at that time Sarfraz Nawaz and he completed his 12 overs while getting his last wicket which was the 9th wicket to fall. Besides Sarfraz Nawaz they had no world class bowlers. Imran was yet to come on the scene. Asif Masood averaged 41 odd per wicket in tests. Pervez Mir and Naseer never played a test. They mostly had spinners in Miandad and Wasim Raja and Mushtaq Mohd bowling to the last wicket anyway as far as I recall listening commentary on radio then. Mushtaq Mohd later became a decent spinner but was not one at the time of the WC. WI ki baat ho aur aap haazir na ho, namumkin. AKane 1
Gollum Posted June 1 Posted June 1 4 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said: Dujon and GOmez were more than capable. In some amtches Gus Logie. Also down the order they all could bat. But India had better bits and pieces players in 1983 Bang average. The 1983 collapse was because of their top-heavy team. No way 2000s Aus messes up such a chase.
vvvslaxman Posted June 1 Posted June 1 7 minutes ago, Gollum said: Bang average. The 1983 collapse was because of their top-heavy team. No way 2000s Aus messes up such a chase. Down to pressure. India had beaten WI 3 out of 4 matches around that phase. Each time India batted first and put up a decent total. This is the first win for us where top order failed except Viv. DUjon, Bacchus, Gomez stepped up https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/india-tour-of-west-indies-1982-83-62309/west-indies-vs-india-2nd-odi-64209/full-scorecard This is world cup first round match https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/prudential-world-cup-1983-60832/india-vs-west-indies-4th-match-65067/full-scorecard Last wicket partnership between Garner and RObers was 71 runs Those days expectations from middle order was very less comparatively. Generally asking rate would be manageable. Also field sets were not well thought out field sts back then. India had the perfect all rounder team back then Take a look at this chase against Srilanka. We chased 278 in 40 overs. Look at the line up. Apart from Dilip Doshi everyone could bat. This is the kind of line up Gambhir is looking for. https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/sri-lanka-tour-of-india-1982-83-61636/india-vs-sri-lanka-2nd-odi-64192/full-scorecard
AKane Posted June 1 Posted June 1 2 hours ago, Gollum said: Bang average. The 1983 collapse was because of their top-heavy team. No way 2000s Aus messes up such a chase. I still think that some late night parties affected the 2003 final. Maybe not the previous night but certainly a couple of nights out. Zaheer looked drunk in his first over but the real shocker was Srinath. A guy with 10 years experience bowled absolute filth. Everything was swept under the carpet with - "Oh that Aus team is just too good". Here are the figures of Shane Bond vs that same team..... 10-2-23-6. Now compare Zaheer and esp Srinath.
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