Our ODI team is too jaded and lacks X factor to win the ODI WC

[Lone Wolf]

14 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

India was the best team until kock outs in 2019, second best in 2015. We have been the biggest tournament team since that awful 2007 exit.  Reached 2013/2017/2025 CT final won twice.  2015 semi , 2019 semi, 2023 final.  So it doesn't matter where we play. 

We were not second best team in 2015.. there were gaps.  We hadn't faced Aus or NZ by then, both sides along with England had humiliated us in the build up to that event.

2015 side was at best serviceable and punching above its weight.  

 

2019 top 3 were carrying us and as soon as Dhawan was gone it was done deal for us.

That middle order DK Dhongi Jadhav was beyond washed.

 

2023 we were the best side by far.  Tournament was in India.

Edited June 16 by Lone Wolf

[Nikhil_cric]

31 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

We were not second best team in 2015.. there were gaps.  We hadn't faced Aus or NZ by then, both sides along with England had humiliated us in the build up to that event.

2015 side was at best serviceable and punching above its weight.  

 

2019 top 3 were carrying us and as soon as Dhawan was gone it was done deal for us.

That middle order DK Dhongi Jadhav was beyond washed.

 

2023 we were the best side by far.  Tournament was in India.

Lol. DK was such a crap player.  Took 20 balls just to get off strike. 

 

[Lone Wolf]

7 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Lol. DK was such a crap player.  Took 20 balls just to get off strike. 

 

2019 had legit worst middle order in Indian WC history since late 90's.

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said:

We were not second best team in 2015.. there were gaps.  We hadn't faced Aus or NZ by then, both sides along with England had humiliated us in the build up to that event.

2015 side was at best serviceable and punching above its weight.  

 

2019 top 3 were carrying us and as soon as Dhawan was gone it was done deal for us.

That middle order DK Dhongi Jadhav was beyond washed.

 

2023 we were the best side by far.  Tournament was in India.

2019 we were table toppers in group stage. 

2015 second in the table.

[Lone Wolf]

7 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

2019 we were table toppers in group stage. 

2015 second in the table.

Doesn't counts for much lost to eventual winners England in group stage and didn't face NZ coz of rained out clash.

2015 wasn't round robin we didn't face Aus or NZ.  

 

 

Plus as I said Dhawan getting injured major part why we beat Australia in 2019... It was an uphill task with that non existent middle order 

 

Edited June 16 by Lone Wolf

[vvvslaxman]

19 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Doesn't counts for much lost to eventual winners England in group stage and didn't face NZ coz of rained out clash.

2015 wasn't round robin we didn't face Aus or NZ.  

 

 

Plus as I said Dhawan getting injured major part why we beat Australia in 2019... It was an uphill task with that non existent middle order 

 

Point is we were the best team up until that point. ENgland would not have qualified if we had beaten them in our dead rubber game.NZ also sneaked through barely through NRR. Australai lost both to us and Pakistan.

[Lone Wolf]

35 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Point is we were the best team up until that point. ENgland would not have qualified if we had beaten them in our dead rubber game.NZ also sneaked through barely through NRR. Australai lost both to us and Pakistan.

Australia won vs Pakistan in that bald guy meme game..

 

NZ sneaking into Semis is something lucky but again I'd say it was sorta 2015 repeat for us even if in 2019 India had much better bowling unit than 2015.  Had faced NZ in 2019 Group stages we probably would have had better knowledge about their tactics

 

 

Lot of things need to go your way if we want to win an event in SENA is basically the point.

That includes solid Middle order/finishers and obvious bowling firepower.

 

Edited June 16 by Lone Wolf

[vvvslaxman]

9 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Australia won vs Pakistan in that bald guy meme game..

 

NZ sneaking into Semis is something lucky but again I'd say it was sorta 2015 repeat for us even if in 2019 India had much better bowling unit than 2015.  Had faced NZ in 2019 Group stages we probably would have had better knowledge about their tactics

 

 

Lot of things need to go your way if we want to win an event in SENA is basically the point.

That includes solid Middle order/finishers and obvious bowling firepower.

 

We did have good bowling though. Bloody idiots dropped Shami  in helpful conditions. It didn't really  help when MSD was not good behind the stumps.

[rollingstoned]

3 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

We were not second best team in 2015.. there were gaps.  We hadn't faced Aus or NZ by then, both sides along with England had humiliated us in the build up to that event.

2015 side was at best serviceable and punching above its weight.  

 

2019 top 3 were carrying us and as soon as Dhawan was gone it was done deal for us.

That middle order DK Dhongi Jadhav was beyond washed.

 

2023 we were the best side by far.  Tournament was in India.

2015 we sucked in the lead up to the tournament but were excellent and raised our game when the tournament began. Ashwin was perhaps a standout performer and all of Shami, umesh and even Mohit sharma performed very well. Remember how we demolished Saf a pre tournament fav in Adelaide.

[vvvslaxman]

15 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

2015 we sucked in the lead up to the tournament but were excellent and raised our game when the tournament began. Ashwin was perhaps a standout performer and all of Shami, umesh and even Mohit sharma performed very well. Remember how we demolished Saf a pre tournament fav in Adelaide.

We have been the best tournament team since 2011 in ODIs. We rarely had a blip. We are the only side not to lose to a minnow in any LOI format since 2007. 

[Ultimate_Game]

7 hours ago, Adamant said:

Lol at comparing Kohlis Wc 23 with Farhan, do you have absolutely no shame left?

 

The guy won us matches against Aus, Nz. What did Farhan do?

 

 

 

Bottom line is that neither Farhan or Kohli's runs made the difference. The difference makers were likes of Samson, Dube, Ishan in WT20 and Head in 2023. And what about 2019 or 2015 coz we're talking about whole decade of failure to win a WC? Any excuses for 2019 or 2015 as well?

[Ultimate_Game]

7 hours ago, Adamant said:

Lol, this is what happens when you lack analytical abilities and ride your luck on others.

 

India also has the highest batting average in world cup in the same time frame.

 

And what has it delivered? Filling boot in the group stages and going missing in the knockouts and the final? We all saw that in 2015, 2019 and 2023. It's not a one off. Do you recall 2015 where top order except Dhawan failed or 2019 where they couldn't even chase 239? What's the excuses for those tourneys? All we hear is excuses for every WC. I've yet to see our so called "batting stars" show up and deliver the way our bowlers have done when given any sort of support.

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, rollingstoned said:

2015 we sucked in the lead up to the tournament but were excellent and raised our game when the tournament began. Ashwin was perhaps a standout performer and all of Shami, umesh and even Mohit sharma performed very well. Remember how we demolished Saf a pre tournament fav in Adelaide.

Saf were a good side.. But Pak also beat that same SA.   We actually beat SA in Melbourne (pre relaid,)

 

That tournament we were always punching above our weight and somehow scoring those close wins vs WI in ( Perth) great win on a bouncy surface.  

Zimbabwe blew away our top order. Raina legendary rescue Outta nowhere.

 

I'd say 2019 we had a much better chance than in 2015.  That 2015 side did the best it could.  We were predicted to lose to even Pak in Adelaide I remember such was the dire condition of the team.

 

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

4 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Saf were a good side.. But Pak also beat that same SA.   We actually beat SA in Melbourne (pre relaid,)

 

That tournament we were always punching above our weight and somehow scoring those close wins vs WI in ( Perth) great win on a bouncy surface.  

Zimbabwe blew away our top order. Raina legendary rescue Outta nowhere.

 

I'd say 2019 we had a much better chance than in 2015.  That 2015 side did the best it could.  We were predicted to lose to even Pak in Adelaide I remember such was the dire condition of the team.

 

 

 

I won't say punching above weight. We are a tournament team. Even right before 2019 not many had hopes with our team with that Rayudu , Vijay shankar fiasco right before world cup. We had dodgy outing in NZ.  Apart from 2007  since 2000 we have been a good tournament team in the world cup. We lost 2-5 right beofre 2003 world cup. But we beat everyone except Australia in 2003.   We raise our game in tournaments.  We also reached 3 back to back CT finals  2013, 2017, 2025. Won 2 of them. 

[Bigg Brother]

ODI cricket in general is boring to watch, specially Bilateral Series. I can't remember one memorable bilateral series between 2019-23 wc and when WC started, it all became interesting again. Same with 2015 and 2019 wc. We were totally shyte after 2013 CT win for almost 18 months,losing everything and then did well in 2015 WC till SF. 2015-19 phase was all about accomodating and hiding Dhoni, still made it to SF and had one of the best and watchable campaign. 

[vvvslaxman]

Since 2000 India has lost only 9 world cup matches, Australia 8. If you start from 2010 our record is staggering in world cups

 

[Lone Wolf]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

I won't say punching above weight. We are a tournament team. Even right before 2019 not many had hopes with our team with that Rayudu , Vijay shankar fiasco right before world cup. We had dodgy outing in NZ.  Apart from 2007  since 2000 we have been a good tournament team in the world cup. We lost 2-5 right beofre 2003 world cup. But we beat everyone except Australia in 2003.   We raise our game in tournaments.  We also reached 3 back to back CT finals  2013, 2017, 2025. Won 2 of them. 

We are a tournament team performance wise... now we were talking about winning in SENA which our current lot of players will be encountering for the first time except Bumrah Kohli.

 

That's the challenge these guys will have to face.  Earlier lot faltered at the gates mostly.  Hopefully they work out their shortcomings as it takes a lot to win a 50 over tournament in SENA especially.  Fielding batting bowling all has to collectively fire.

In India/SC it can be still manageable to be dicey or rely on individual brilliance but not in SENA.

[vvvslaxman]

4 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

We are a tournament team performance wise... now we were talking about winning in SENA which our current lot of players will be encountering for the first time except Bumrah Kohli.

 

That's the challenge these guys will have to face.  Earlier lot faltered at the gates mostly.  Hopefully they work out their shortcomings as it takes a lot to win a 50 over tournament in SENA especially.  Fielding batting bowling all has to collectively fire.

In India/SC it can be still manageable to be dicey or rely on individual brilliance but not in SENA.

 

This is also a misconception if you ask me. India is the second best country in world cup matches held in SENA since 2000. India has lost only 5 matches in SENA in world cup since 2000. Thrice to Australia 2003(2), 2015 and  once to England, once to NZ. I expect India to struggle this time. Not because it is SENA> but because most of the players are at the end of their career. This Indian team will struggle even in India.

 

Edited June 16 by vvvslaxman

[Ultimate_Game]

5 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

We were not second best team in 2015.. there were gaps.  We hadn't faced Aus or NZ by then, both sides along with England had humiliated us in the build up to that event.

2015 side was at best serviceable and punching above its weight.  

 

2019 top 3 were carrying us and as soon as Dhawan was gone it was done deal for us.

That middle order DK Dhongi Jadhav was beyond washed.

 

2023 we were the best side by far.  Tournament was in India.

 

2019 was the one which we let go, and there were 3 main reasons...

 

1. Pushing Chahal and sidelining Shami despite Shami averaging 3 wkts per game when he played. Just because he was hit by England on the flattest of patta he was dropped by captain Kohli on a pitch tailor made for him 

 

2. Dhawan's injury. He was our best batter in 50 overs ICC tourneys in 2010s - 2013 CT, 2015 WC and 2019 WC. He was the one who set the tone and showed up. Even in 2015 WC SF he had Aus under the pump and till he was around it looked like India would chase 320 odd. Once he fell, the rest crumbled.

 

3. No established number 4. Kohli played Rayudu at 4 for 2 years before the ODI WC but right before the WC he and selectors had a change of heart and dropped him. We went in the WC without a stable no. 4! We tried to play Vijay Shankar, eternal failure DK and Pant at that pivotal slot. Kohli and selectors should've made the call on Rayudu earlier. I wasn't a big fan of Rayudu but once he played right up to the WC at 4, I expected him to bat at that position. I was surprised he was dropped from the squad with no real alternative picked.

 

These 3 main reasons sunk us. It was a very winnable WC with an in form Shami and Bumrah combo with Pandya coming into his own with our so called batting stars at their peak. For us to lose to that kiwi team was pathetic. The way the pitch played in the final would've been in our favor as it wasn't a patta and that Eng team struggled on any pitch that wasn't a patta. That was a huge opportunity lost.

[vvvslaxman]

In world cups it is all about nerves. Many teams lose their nerves when put under pressure. SA, NZ fall under that category> England was like that for long. Now they are better in terms of handling pressure. Australia never chokes.  They just need the opposition to choke like India did in 2023,  NZ did in 2015. England doesn't choke these days that is why they kicked out Australia in 2019 semi final.