singhvivek141 Posted June 23 Posted June 23 (edited) 1 hour ago, rangeelaraja said: @Vancouver - Using AI with bad prompts ? All of your arguments are devoid of facts. China wasn't a super power 30 years back. But did everything it can to prop up Pak to bleed India - including arming Pak with lethal weapons, shielding Pak terrorists from UNSC sanctions and even N-enabling Pak. This objective has solidified as India has risen. Regime changes ( that are hostile to India ) in all of India's neighbourhood by the biggest superpower. A small correction, China was a close ally of US from the Sino-USSR conflict in 1964. US & CIA used China as a backyard to bite USSR while parallely training Mujahideens in Afg with help of ISI. China adapted the narrative from US that India is close to USSR & against US backed Pak. Post USSRs collapse, US's interest shifted from South East Asia to West Asia (courtesy of Iraq War) and China filled that vaccum by providing weapons to Pak. Just see the events after India conducted Nuclear tests in Pokaran in 1998, Pak conducted the same within next 3-5 days, that cant happen without years of prep. And then Bil Clinton went to China, where they released Joint statement regarding sanctions against India. Effectively, China was still in US's pocket then. Its only under Xi, when China has started showing teeth to US. Otherwise, it was always cordial to US. Edited June 23 by singhvivek141
Lone Wolf Posted June 23 Posted June 23 (edited) 15 hours ago, MechEng said: Marathas would have done nothing, Indian mindset was never the same after Sultanate conquered the subcontinent. For majority of medieval era the Indian history was all about warfare and land acquisition, there was no room for innovation and advanced thought process. Marathas, Sikhs and Rajputs could not command half the influence what Mauryans could globally. Mauryans presented a blueprint for a Centralised rule based order. Precisely what Marathas failed to achieve...Pretty much decline of the Indian union started with the Death of Asoka as well. You are wrong that India won't have industrialized imperial Japan style under Marathas. Many Indian States were already on the way. Guilds and Worker communities were already being replaced by Streamlined production during the late Maratha period. Technology was inferior yes, but it would have caught up. Unfortunately Indian warfare was still not a match for the discipline and Training of company troops. Mysore had extremely higher living standards in fact.. their weavers had wages ahead of their European peers. Proto industry in Bengal was flourishing and there are detailed accounts on how British deindustrialised everything. As for Punjab, I don't think it was ever on the way to becoming a properly industrialized state at the level Bengal was. They did heavily modernize their army for sure but they didn't have the manufacturing that was present in Bengal I believe had everything gone to plan then India would have low key industrialised like Japan started in the 1860's too. Edited June 23 by Lone Wolf
jf1gp_1 Posted June 23 Posted June 23 No one has a more hostile neighbourhood than Isreal, yet they are flourishing. How? Also, we need to stop believing our population is an asset. Its our single biggest liability. Finally, we need to learn to love this country. This can only happen at school. Instead of 3rd language or 4th language we need to bring moral science kind of mandatory subject. Lord 1
kepler37b Posted June 23 Posted June 23 Esteemed NRI's on this phorum are ignorant of INdian society. It has gazillion fault lines. Hinduism asks every person to make his own path while following dharma. But it has been twisted socially. Each and every person has his own version of Dharma and the resultant god complex. Such country will NEVER EVER sail the seas and oceans. It will just float around like a shipwreck along the currents.
MechEng Posted June 23 Posted June 23 1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said: Mauryans presented a blueprint for a Centralised rule based order. Precisely what Marathas failed to achieve...Pretty much decline of the Indian union started with the Death of Asoka as well. You are wrong that India won't have industrialized imperial Japan style under Marathas. Many Indian States were already on the way. Guilds and Worker communities were already being replaced by Streamlined production during the late Maratha period. Technology was inferior yes, but it would have caught up. Unfortunately Indian warfare was still not a match for the discipline and Training of company troops. Mysore had extremely higher living standards in fact.. their weavers had wages ahead of their European peers. Proto industry in Bengal was flourishing and there are detailed accounts on how British deindustrialised everything. As for Punjab, I don't think it was ever on the way to becoming a properly industrialized state at the level Bengal was. They did heavily modernize their army for sure but they didn't have the manufacturing that was present in Bengal I believe had everything gone to plan then India would have low key industrialised like Japan started in the 1860's too. India had no shortage of craftsmen, in fact Indian crafts were considered of arguably the highest quality. What they lacked was the scientific approach, order and discipline. Indians were fighting regional wars when Germany was inventing the first IC engine. Besides, we cannot blame British for everything. The British would have never ruled had it not been for the support from Princely states who fought for their own dominion.
Lone Wolf Posted June 23 Posted June 23 23 minutes ago, MechEng said: India had no shortage of craftsmen, in fact Indian crafts were considered of arguably the highest quality. What they lacked was the scientific approach, order and discipline. Indians were fighting regional wars when Germany was inventing the first IC engine. Besides, we cannot blame British for everything. The British would have never ruled had it not been for the support from Princely states who fought for their own dominion. A japan style mejii restoration type program would theoretically have been possible under a Pan India Maratha confederacy. Marathas being extremely short sighted is the reason why we are where are.. they missed a generational fortune altering bus. Everybody always forgets about Mysore. It was one of the earliest large states that attempted modernization along French lines. If Napoleon had won Egypt and somehow Tippu survived the British, we could have seen a scenario where the French sent even more modern expertise to Mysore. India is a cursed land smh that somehow all the terrible luck has went our way. Incompetence/self sabotage had its role obviously but some terrible misfortune has always befell upon this land.
singhvivek141 Posted June 23 Posted June 23 2 hours ago, jf1gp_1 said: No one has a more hostile neighbourhood than Isreal, yet they are flourishing. How? Also, we need to stop believing our population is an asset. Its our single biggest liability. Finally, we need to learn to love this country. This can only happen at school. Instead of 3rd language or 4th language we need to bring moral science kind of mandatory subject. Israel is a permanent base of US in Middle East. The Iran war is the first incident where US & Israel are on different sides with regards to result of the war. Agree about the rest, and basically we need to revive Sanskrit. Language war is a serious issue in India and no language will be able to settle the debate apart from Sanskrit (except English).
jf1gp_1 Posted June 23 Posted June 23 4 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: A japan style mejii restoration type program would theoretically have been possible under a Pan India Maratha confederacy. Marathas being extremely short sighted is the reason why we are where are.. they missed a generational fortune altering bus. Everybody always forgets about Mysore. It was one of the earliest large states that attempted modernization along French lines. If Napoleon had won Egypt and somehow Tippu survived the British, we could have seen a scenario where the French sent even more modern expertise to Mysore. India is a cursed land smh that somehow all the terrible luck has went our way. Incompetence/self sabotage had its role obviously but some terrible misfortune has always befell upon this land. Gen X will remember socially useful productive work (SUPW) we have just shut it down. Every week we used to have moral science class, how to cross road, help elders etc etc again stopped. no clue why diga 1
BacktoCricaddict Posted June 23 Posted June 23 (edited) The one thing that we must remember is that - as a modern nation - India is still young. We have a rich history and heritage, but colonialism interrupted it, and India is still picking up the pieces. It will require sustained effort and laser focus on development and economic upliftment of all people. Cultural issues will automatically take care of themselves if everyone has economic stability. What India does have is intellectual capital - if the govts support them by wisely investing in forward-looking R&D and development efforts, there are no limits to where India can reach. Edited June 23 by BacktoCricaddict Lord 1
Prakat Posted June 23 Posted June 23 One of the upsides of having a ruling party with a fanbase is that the working and middle classes can be pushed endlessly into ever-worsening conditions without question.
Lord Posted June 23 Posted June 23 Seems like victim mentality . We need to control the controllables first We still have corrupt babus and mins leading to deaths almost every week. education system is broken leading to uncontrolled dehat and lack of civic sense. No fear of law and order is instilled politicians still get away with divide and rule and appeasement politics including wasting money on freebies when other instruments suffer BacktoCricaddict 1
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