Deliberate and calculated attempt to undermine Sooryavanshi

[wanted_desi]

They are just jealous of him. He is 2 tier above everyone in the team. He made look Jaiswal so ordinary when batting with him. He will do same to these so called superstars.  

[Ultimate_Game]

3 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Rinku simply failed for way too long had mediocre IPL back to back. Severe limitations himself while facing spin.

Sarfaraz is simply not there for non cricketing reasons and he didn't break the door down either in domestic cricket off late.

 

Jaiswal is clearly better option than Rohit as an opener in ODIs and his exclusion has been called unfair.

 

In T20I Gill and Jaiswal are probably same level.  Both lock their wrists and can't play at high tempo for long or in certain conditions.  Gill a better accumulator there as well as he has shown in IPL.

Both have minnow bashed in their T20I career and numbers are severely inflated by bashing Zimbabwe Nepal and WI (in Florida)

 

Rinku was always set up to fail. In IPL, KKR brought in Rahane for some reason and pushed Rinku way too low. Never really got too many chances and when he was pushed up middle of the season he did well.

 

Jaiswal should've been in the team long time back but sidelined continuously. He's the first one to make way for anyone as he doesn't have backing of anyone. And he's ahead of Gill in T20s as Jaiswal's stats were much better than Gill. Jaiswal may have minnow-bashed but he didn't get enough chances against otehrs. He was kicked out at the first opportunity despite putting up numbers and being consistent in IPL. With Sooryavanshi coming in now I doubt Jaiswal gets a shot in T20 but he should be there in ODIs - much younger, with more upside and a better option than a 40 year old has been.

Edited July 2 by Ultimate_Game

[Ultimate_Game]

4 hours ago, Lord said:

Everything is a conspiracy as per OP

 

Jaiswal was sidelined despite performances and I'm seeing the same theme here with Sooryavanshi.

 

If you don't see two different sets of standards - one for Jaiswal, Sarfaraz, Rinku etc. and another one for Gill, SKY etc. then we've nothing to discuss. One set is always one bad knock away from kicked out, and the other set have a rope which goes years and are even brought into formats for which they're unfit.

 

If the plan was to play "WC winners" in a bilateral against Ireland and Eng then why select Sooryavanshi at all? Select the same squad and send them. Mark my words, they'll play Sooryavanshi in the last 1-2 matches and if he fails will kick him out saying "he isn't ready". They're doing everything they can to set him up to fail coz if they really wanted him to succeed they would've played Sooryavanshi in every match as opener with Samson and Ishan playing as wk at no. 3. Give 4 games to one and 3 to the other with Sooryavanshi getting all 7.

[cricspirit]

I am ignoring both these useless series. 

 

The only interest is Sooryavanshi. ..  will watch when he plays.

 

[Lord]

1 hour ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Jaiswal was sidelined despite performances and I'm seeing the same theme here with Sooryavanshi.

 

If you don't see two different sets of standards - one for Jaiswal, Sarfaraz, Rinku etc. and another one for Gill, SKY etc. then we've nothing to discuss. One set is always one bad knock away from kicked out, and the other set have a rope which goes years and are even brought into formats for which they're unfit.

 

If the plan was to play "WC winners" in a bilateral against Ireland and Eng then why select Sooryavanshi at all? Select the same squad and send them. Mark my words, they'll play Sooryavanshi in the last 1-2 matches and if he fails will kick him out saying "he isn't ready". They're doing everything they can to set him up to fail coz if they really wanted him to succeed they would've played Sooryavanshi in every match as opener with Samson and Ishan playing as wk at no. 3. Give 4 games to one and 3 to the other with Sooryavanshi getting all 7.

 

Sooryavanshi is selected in the squad (over Gill, Priyansh etc). That doesn't automatically guarantee a place in the XI.

 

Just like RR didn't debut him straightaway its not a worst thing to get a feel of international cricket before throwing him in the deep end. These are completely different conditions too. 

 

We have lot of options these days so there is no desperation. 

 

Why should Samson or Ishan be rotated? What wrong had they done?

 

I assure you he'll be backed whenever he debuts

[Ultimate_Game]

39 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Sooryavanshi is selected in the squad (over Gill, Priyansh etc). That doesn't automatically guarantee a place in the XI.

 

Just like RR didn't debut him straightaway its not a worst thing to get a feel of international cricket before throwing him in the deep end. These are completely different conditions too. 

 

We have lot of options these days so there is no desperation. 

 

Why should Samson or Ishan be rotated? What wrong had they done?

 

I assure you he'll be backed whenever he debuts

 

Every game he sits on the bench increases the pressure on him. This is not backing a player. It would be like India selecting Tendulkar as a 16 year old and then not playing him.

 

It's not a question of anyone doing anything wrong, it's a case of doing what's right for the best T20 player in the world. The whole point of bilateral is to build bench strength and ease in players. If you start going with "what wrong a player has done" you may as well never give anyone a chance and play the stars.

 

The decision to not play Sooryavanshi is wrong for 3 reasons:

1. He's the best T20 batter in the team based on his stats and records so far so he deserves a spot in playing XI on merit. It's for the team to figure out who should be rotated or rested and not Sooryavanshi's problem.

 

2. You want to give a youngster best chance to succeed and that would've been giving him 7 games to find his feet and succeed. The longer he doesn't play the more the pressure on him and if he gets just a game or two, the pressure on him would be unbearable coz if he fails pitchforks would be out "he's a flat track bully", "IPL is not intl cricket", "he's not ready for intl cricket" etc.

 

3. You want to play a youngster when they're in form to give them their best chance to succeed. Sooryavanshi is coming off the back of a once in a lifetime type of a IPL where he broke every kind of batting record and swept the awards. He followed it up with another outstanding innings in the final of A Triseries against SL where he won the final on his own. If you don't play him now when he's top of the world then when? Months from now when he's struggling with form and/or confidence after being sidelined?

 

This delay in him getting a game only reduces his chances of succeeding. He's in form with an outstanding IPL followed by a brilliant knock in the A series final where likes of Tilak struggled. Yet Tilak and company whom Sooryavanshi outshone in IPL and the A series are there but Sooryavanshi isn't. Make it make sense.

Edited July 2 by Ultimate_Game

[Lord]

47 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Every game he sits on the bench increases the pressure on him. This is not backing a player. It would be like India selecting Tendulkar as a 16 year old and then not playing him.

 

It's not a question of anyone doing anything wrong, it's a case of doing what's right for the best T20 player in the world. The whole point of bilateral is to build bench strength and ease in players. If you start going with "what wrong a player has done" you may as well never give anyone a chance and play the stars.

 

The decision to not play Sooryavanshi is wrong for 3 reasons:

1. He's the best T20 batter in the team based on his stats and records so far so he deserves a spot in playing XI on merit. It's for the team to figure out who should be rotated or rested and not Sooryavanshi's problem.

 

2. You want to give a youngster best chance to succeed and that would've been giving him 7 games to find his feet and succeed. The longer he doesn't play the more the pressure on him and if he gets just a game or two, the pressure on him would be unbearable coz if he fails pitchforks would be out "he's a flat track bully", "IPL is not intl cricket", "he's not ready for intl cricket" etc.

 

3. You want to play a youngster when they're in form to give them their best chance to succeed. Sooryavanshi is coming off the back of a once in a lifetime type of a IPL where he broke every kind of batting record and swept the awards. He followed it up with another outstanding innings in the final of A Triseries against SL where he won the final on his own. If you don't play him now when he's top of the world then when? Months from now when he's struggling with form and/or confidence after being sidelined?

 

This delay in him getting a game only reduces his chances of succeeding. He's in form with an outstanding IPL followed by a brilliant knock in the A series final where likes of Tilak struggled. Yet Tilak and company whom Sooryavanshi outshone in IPL and the A series are there but Sooryavanshi isn't. Make it make sense.

There is zero pressure on him. Its not like time is running out for him

 

Best T20 player in the world without playing a single game for India?

 

His stats are all IPL where others have proven themselves over multiple seasons

 

If he fails, he will still be backed. Thats why he’s in the squad ahead of Gill etc. He has been marked as one for the future

 

Tilak should be out but its not a direct comparison as they play on different roles

 

If he had played and failed in Irish swinging tracks, then too pitchforks will be out, both for him and TM.Its best to debut him on flat decks when he has best chance to shine. 

 

Now that Samson and Kishan have failed, its easier to debut him

[tapandrun]

Vaibahv will get his chance, nothing wrong in benching few games. This is his 1st time being picked for Ind 15.

 

This team just won the the wc, there are no free slot, they already removed the captain who was not performing. Where will vaibhav fit in ??

 

Sanju /Abhishek/Ishan all there were in top form , scored tons of run. Viabhav is selected as back-up opener. He will get his chances may be they rest Abhishek/Sanju/kishan

 

Ind is travelling with the full strngth side, so player who won the wc will be selected, there is no point to bench top player if they are selected for a tour. Either do not select them so that there is no dilemma , if selected means they will get few games and then they will rest for newer players. 

 

Edited July 3 by tapandrun

[Rightarmfast]

Having a logic like ' he has only played one or 2 seasons of IPL, whereas others have played much more is bizarre. Other players haven't dominated the best bowlers like Vaibhav has done. 

Also, benching anyone always creates pressure and doubts. You are pushing him into oblivion. India is a specialist in doing it. It has successfully spoilt the career of Umran, not giving chances to bowlers like Ashok, Tyagi and all. And now this. 

And for what? Are the other players who are in the 11, really performing? 

[express bowling]

The reason is ... " India's blind preference for Seniority ".

 

I think it was probably VVS Laxman, when he was a commentator, said on air that in the Indian cricket team a junior can be picked only if a senior is unavailable for selection. 

 

In case of Sooryavanshi, it won't be that late. But we would be naive to think that some sort of seniority game won't be played before picking anyone in team India. Queue system has to be followed, even if for 3 or 4 matches or if back is against the wall.

[Stan AF]

Jesus, cmon fellas.

 

At this point of time I don't think even god can stop sooryavanshi from playing for India. 

[test fan]

 

 

 

[New guy]

12 hours ago, tapandrun said:

Vaibahv will get his chance, nothing wrong in benching few games. This is his 1st time being picked for Ind 15.

 

This team just won the the wc, there are no free slot, they already removed the captain who was not performing. Where will vaibhav fit in ??

 

Sanju /Abhishek/Ishan all there were in top form , scored tons of run. Viabhav is selected as back-up opener. He will get his chances may be they rest Abhishek/Sanju/kishan

 

Ind is travelling with the full strngth side, so player who won the wc will be selected, there is no point to bench top player if they are selected for a tour. Either do not select them so that there is no dilemma , if selected means they will get few games and then they will rest for newer players. 

 

So iyer won the world cup? If he can come with way less performance, why cant Suryavanshi?

 

Double standards or deliberate dishonesty?

 

And before you state, samson can very much play in the middle order and he has shown it many times. So Surya fits in as an opener while samson fits in  the middle order as an experienced bat to replace Sky, with iyer having no place.

 

The question was never to replace abhishek, ishan, samson, they all deserve the place. The point always was Iyer or suryavanshi. The iyer online cult deliberately spreading wrong info is not fooling most people who pay attention.

 

Samson has played almost half his international career in middle order.

 

Weird how your standards dont apply to Iyer who came directly as captain based on IPL and online PR,  but this argument that we cannot replace anyone, is used to keep out the most talented batsman we have.

 

 

Edited July 3 by New guy

[Ultimate_Game]

2 hours ago, Stan AF said:

Jesus, cmon fellas.

 

At this point of time I don't think even god can stop sooryavanshi from playing for India. 

 

Welcome to Indian cricket! I thought nobody could stop Jaiswal from being an all-format star and look how things have panned out. And the point is not just to get Sooryavanshi to play for India but to help him succeed. A token 1-2 games and then sidelined is not the same thing as ensuring Sooryavanshi gets as many chances he needs and is set to succeed.

[BacktoCricaddict]

14 hours ago, tapandrun said:

Vaibahv will get his chance, nothing wrong in benching few games. This is his 1st time being picked for Ind 15.

 

This team just won the the wc, there are no free slot, they already removed the captain who was not performing. Where will vaibhav fit in ??

 

Sanju /Abhishek/Ishan all there were in top form , scored tons of run. Viabhav is selected as back-up opener. He will get his chances may be they rest Abhishek/Sanju/kishan

 

Ind is travelling with the full strngth side, so player who won the wc will be selected, there is no point to bench top player if they are selected for a tour. Either do not select them so that there is no dilemma , if selected means they will get few games and then they will rest for newer players. 

 

This would be true if there was no evidence that the "back-up" is at least as skilled as or more skilled than the incumbent.

 

But, there is.

 

In the same 74-match tournament, the back-up dominated like no one ever before. Bring him in during bilateral series. See what he has to offer against high-quality attacks. Move things around as needed to maximize his potential while also giving the others opportunities in performing in other roles (e.g., as someone suggested, moving Samson to MO).

 

Plus, the logic of "let him learn the ropes from seniors; let him get a feel for int'l cricket" etc. is obsolete. With IPL, he has played with and against some senior pros, and knows how to prepare and be professional. 

 

It's a problem of plenty, and as long as communication is clear and team is put first, it should all work out. 

Edited July 3 by BacktoCricaddict

[BacktoCricaddict]

3 hours ago, Stan AF said:

Jesus, cmon fellas.

 

At this point of time I don't think even god can stop sooryavanshi from playing for India. 

Please don't take SRT's name in vain.

[tapandrun]

18 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

This would be true if there was no evidence that the "back-up" is at least as skilled as or more skilled than the incumbent.

 

But, there is.

 

In the same 74-match tournament, the back-up dominated like no one ever before. Bring him in during bilateral series. See what he has to offer against high-quality attacks. Move things around as needed to maximize his potential while also giving the others opportunities in performing in other roles (e.g., as someone suggested, moving Samson to MO).

 

Plus, the logic of "let him learn the ropes from seniors; let him get a feel for int'l cricket" etc. is an obsolete concept. With IPL, he has played with and against some senior pros, and knows how to prepare and be professional. 

 

It's a problem of plenty, and as long as communication is clear and team is put first, it should all work out. 

 

Not making an argument that he should wait from the rope, since his selection its been just 3 games, thats not outside of norm for new players wait if playing in full strength side. This is clear , there is nothing to do deliberate attempt to undermine him , he has lot of time.

 

Ppl here are just impatience and do not understand how it works, its a full strength side touring, you do not carry 1st 11 to make them bench hence viabhav is on the bench.

He will get his chances.

 

There is no problem of communication in vaibhav's case its just fans being impatience or just trying to find something when nothing exists.

 

Lets look vaibhav's path to Ind selection (excluding u-19s):  He scores quick ton in ipl in his 1st season then gets selected in emerging asia up as 1st opener , then he goes to SL for A tour , now he is a member of full strength t20i ind side. this is not a A/B level side this is proper Ind Icc event side.

 

Abhishek/Sanju/Kishan are or were in top form in t20is and they are part of 1st 11 travelling so they are getting to play at their spots. 

Thinks are clear and ppl are just trying to muddy the water for nothing.

 

Yes the board has been inconsistent with communication, but not in viabhav's case.

 

You expect a newer player having to wait when the full strength side is travelling , this is nothing new.

 

 

 

[Stan AF]

50 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Welcome to Indian cricket! I thought nobody could stop Jaiswal from being an all-format star and look how things have panned out. And the point is not just to get Sooryavanshi to play for India but to help him succeed. A token 1-2 games and then sidelined is not the same thing as ensuring Sooryavanshi gets as many chances he needs and is set to succeed.

 

Jaiswal is not an all format material. Not in T20 anyway. 

[BacktoCricaddict]

26 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

This is clear , there is nothing to do deliberate attempt to undermine him

Completely agree with this. It is not a *deliberate* effort, but an indictment of a risk-free, seniority culture. While this is usual practice, VS is not a usual talent.

 

26 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

he has lot of time.

 

26 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

He will get his chances.

 

Perhaps. But, he brings something special, so much immediate value that some of these unwritten rules need to be thrown out. He is in the form of his life, playing with an uncluttered and brutal innocence in his approach. The time is now - and this is not for *his* benefit. It is for the potential benefit for future team-India in T20s. 

Edited July 3 by BacktoCricaddict

[BacktoCricaddict]

6 minutes ago, Stan AF said:

 

Jaiswal is not an all format material. Not in T20 anyway. 

He was. He regressed, unfortunately.