Deliberate and calculated attempt to undermine Sooryavanshi

[BacktoCricaddict]

12 minutes ago, BCCISelector said:

VS will make his debut in this month, either in England or in Zimbabwe. Many of you are too impatient. He has at least 20-25 years of cricket left in him. 

This is not about VS. It is about the potential dominance he can bring to the Indian team (along with AS) in PP.

 

12 minutes ago, BCCISelector said:

You guys criticised the team management for dropping Samson after 1 or 2 bad series last year.

Wasn't the same guys doing both criticisms, now, was it? It's not about dropping Samson. It's about giving these guys a break from the grind. It did Samson a world of good before the WC matches he ended up winning for the team. 

 

One comparison I want to make:

 

I was listening to sports radio here in the US. The general manager of the team that won the ice hockey championship Stanley Cup was being interviewed and he was talking about trading off a few guys from the championship team less than 3 weeks after the final ended!  He said, "yes, we won the championship, but we can always get better."

Edited July 3 by BacktoCricaddict

[vvvslaxman]

6 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

 

No, ipl is held once in a yr. and do not compare icc events to ipl. Kishan is odi side as back-up how many odis has he played ?? he needs game time at intnl level.

 

Yes they do not need to play each game each series but this is a good opportunity to play is Nz like conditions for the team. 

 

Pak was diff. case -- They had multiple players if not all playing all 3 formats and still they wanted to play a b/c/d level opp with full pak team strength. All their players were getting intnl games but still they were playing all the games.

 

In Ind case apart from iyer all the other batter are just t20i players they do not play any-other format. 

 

If they would not have played there would have been a diff case made why they are not playing in eng where conditions could be same as nz.

 

Amongst --> Sanju/Kishan/Axar/ Iyer/Dube donot think they have played any games in such conditions, think for kishan its his 1st sena tour. All need game time in non sc condition , even to make assessment if they are any good in those conditions or not. 

 

 

 

It doesn't matter if they play only one format. Even they need a break. They are coming off of a long IPl season Immediately 7 T20Is is nuts. It is ideal time to groom next set of players. There is no guarantee this will be the same XI for the next world cup. So you are allowed to experiment for atleast an year.  Danger of keep on playing the players who looks visibly burnt out and less motivated they could permanently lose their spot after string of failures. Sanju samson, Tilak are in that territory. Then we will have utter chaos.

[Lord]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

We used to give opportunities to complete set of new players on these tours. We used to send main team only when we had a full tour with Tests and ODIs.  THis is the first time in a while we are sending the main team who looks burnt out. 

 

Main team without Pandya, Bumrah?

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Main team without Pandya, Bumrah?

 

Batting core is still intact.

[Lord]

3 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Batting core is still intact.

 

Hardik is important part of batting. Also earlier we used to ply new players because we didnt have settled XI

[tapandrun]

8 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

It doesn't matter if they play only one format. Even they need a break. They are coming off of a long IPl season Immediately 7 T20Is is nuts. It is ideal time to groom next set of players. There is no guarantee this will be the same XI for the next world cup. So you are allowed to experiment for atleast an year.  Danger of keep on playing the players who looks visibly burnt out and less motivated they could permanently lose their spot after string of failures. Sanju samson, Tilak are in that territory. Then we will have utter chaos.

 

Yes timing of the ipl+ these series can be questioned. 

Tm is experimenting here none of these player have any kind of exp. playing in sena condition, these series provide a good opportunity to test players like-- Sanju/kishan/Iyer/Dube/Axar <-- they are good for sc and sc like conditions are they good for Aus+Nz ?? Wont think them as auto-selection based on games in sc and sc like conditions.

 

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

4 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

 

Yes timing of the ipl+ these series can be questioned. 

Tm is experimenting here none of these player have any kind of exp. playing in sena condition, these series provide a good opportunity to test players like-- Sanju/kishan/Iyer/Dube/Axar <-- they are good for sc and sc like conditions are they good for Aus+Nz ?? Wont think them as auto-selection based on games in sc and sc like conditions.

 

 

 

 

I am not sure how anyone can master those conditions in one tour against some B string side that too in T20 where you get to face 20 or 30 balls at the most where requirement is to take high risk. You learn zilch. You mgith as well learn more at Ekana than here. We saw the technically superior Kela in 2022 world cup in Australia. Looked like a clown playing out maiden overs against associate sides.  Shreyas Iyer averages 70 in NZ in 5 innings. with 1 century and 3 fifties.  In Australia he has to improve his record. It is nothing to do with conditions. It is more to do with his handling of short ball. Shivam dube won't become clive lloyd after playing 2 or 3 T20 games in those places. That limitation will always exist.  Same with Sanju samosn. He is not going to paly any differently after 2 or 3 matches. HE will continue step back into crease for each ball and try to play off the back foot. 

 

We did see Virat kohli edging to slip for 4 or 5 years in various conditions. People don't change over night that too in T20. You need to experiment to see if someone else does better there. 

[BacktoCricaddict]

14 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Hardik is important part of batting. Also earlier we used to ply new players because we didnt have settled XI

True. And acceptable logic. But this guy - VS - belies all logic.  There is the potential that you are replacing a great top-order player (Samson/Kishan) with a mind-blowingly multigenerational top-order talent. The team is excellent, but it can always get better. The great ones like Samson/Kishan may have to adjust to new roles to help the team.

[Lord]

Just now, BacktoCricaddict said:

True. And acceptable logic. But this guy - VS - belies all logic.  There is the potential that you are replacing a great top-order player (Samson/Kishan) with a mind-blowingly multigenerational top-order talent. The team is excellent, but it can always get better. The great ones like Samson/Kishan may have to adjust to new roles to help the team.

All that is true, but what’s the hurry? Dropping performing players for a new guy will develop mistrust in the dressing room. We can’t call for a biased treatment just because hes a special talent.

[vvvslaxman]

6 minutes ago, Lord said:

All that is true, but what’s the hurry? Dropping performing players for a new guy will develop mistrust in the dressing room. We can’t call for a biased treatment just because hes a special talent.

They are not performing players based on IPL. Axar looked like a tailender there even on flat wickets.

[BacktoCricaddict]

6 minutes ago, Lord said:

All that is true, but what’s the hurry? Dropping performing players for a new guy will develop mistrust in the dressing room. We can’t call for a biased treatment just because hes a special talent.

 

Not drop. But rest, rotate, find new roles that may benefit the team in the long run. Bring the seniors into confidence. Tell them why you are doing it, putting team goals first. Get them to buy in.

 

Not to harp on American pro sports (I gave an ice hockey example earlier), but the NY Knicks who won the NBA championship this year were able to break that ceiling because their star player Jalen Brunson took a huge paycut that helped the team bring in other stars, which eventually helped the team win. Sometimes it takes sacrifices to create a winning culture, putting the team first. Ten years from now, VS may be asked to make some sacrifice for another player if it can help the team win more. 

[vvvslaxman]

28 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Hardik is important part of batting. Also earlier we used to ply new players because we didnt have settled XI

Even in world cup we didn't ahve settled XI. Sanju clicking was a bonus. His career was about to end.  We are playing Sundar, Prasidh who are not part of settled XI.  For Ireland India should ahve sent guys like Arya, Prabh, VS and main team to England.

[tapandrun]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

I am not sure how anyone can master those conditions in one tour against some B string side that too in T20 where you get to face 20 or 30 balls at the most where requirement is to take high risk. You learn zilch. You mgith as well learn more at Ekana than here. We saw the technically superior Kela in 2022 world cup in Australia. Looked like a clown playing out maiden overs against associate sides.  Shreyas Iyer averages 70 in NZ in 5 innings. with 1 century and 3 fifties.  In Australia he has to improve his record. It is nothing to do with conditions. It is more to do with his handling of short ball. Shivam dube won't become clive lloyd after playing 2 or 3 T20 games in those places. That limitation will always exist.  Same with Sanju samosn. He is not going to paly any differently after 2 or 3 matches. HE will continue step back into crease for each ball and try to play off the back foot. 

 

We did see Virat kohli edging to slip for 4 or 5 years in various conditions. People don't change over night that too in T20. You need to experiment to see if someone else does better there. 

 

It is lot do with conditions and adapting to the conditions, some players have natural technique to play in certain conditions and they adapt faster , some have to find their own way and some just fails.

 

Not sure if there is any case for a developmental side when your 1st 11 or 15 does not have any kind of exp. in playing in the condition where next wc is.

 

 

Yes development is must but you should know what your 1st 11 or 15 got, can they play in such condition. It may not help to improve but it will tell if they are good or not and if and wht improvements are needed.

 

Ind went with 3 lh batter in top 3 in this wc and found out it a bad strategy and they were lucky that sanju came in with super form and change the things around, you do not want to know in next wc that its a bad plan and certain players can not play together or some players gets stuck. 

 

You do not want to go to wc without testing players specially sena conditions. PPl were making case for sanju in odi wc now after these 3 games is there a valid argument for his place ??? 

 

Timing of the series and rest is a valid issue, but here is an opportunity to play 7 games in Nz like conditions to check what your 1st 15 got , it may show cracks that has to be filled, we are seeing issues with sanju and verma its better if those are identified earlier than later.   

 

 

 

Edited July 3 by tapandrun

[Lord]

6 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

 

Not drop. But rest, rotate, find new roles that may benefit the team in the long run. Bring the seniors into confidence. Tell them why you are doing it, putting team goals first. Get them to buy in.

 

Not to harp on American pro sports (I gave an ice hockey example earlier), but the NY Knicks who won the NBA championship this year were able to break that ceiling because their star player Jalen Brunson took a huge paycut that helped the team bring in other stars, which eventually helped the team win. Sometimes it takes sacrifices to create a winning culture, putting the team first. Ten years from now, VS may be asked to make some sacrifice for another player if it can help the team win more. 

That might already be in place. I am sure he will get a chance. Maybe they are trying to seal series to play him in a low pressure game or in flatter conditions 

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, Lord said:

That might already be in place. I am sure he will get a chance. Maybe they are trying to seal series to play him in a low pressure game or in flatter conditions 

Like in "Iyer"land   Historic whitewash. None of the bilaterals are pressure games. That too against ireland.  England, Windies, Pakistan 3 teams beat Ireland in their home in the last 3 T2)I series. Even India beat 2-0 in 2023.  A brand new hungry team would have won it there. Total surrender to a Desi guy who made debut.

[Lone Wolf]

Vaibhav will get max 1 game in England by the looks of it and all three games in Zimbabwe probably

 

 

[Lord]

54 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Like in "Iyer"land   Historic whitewash. None of the bilaterals are pressure games. That too against ireland.  England, Windies, Pakistan 3 teams beat Ireland in their home in the last 3 T2)I series. Even India beat 2-0 in 2023.  A brand new hungry team would have won it there. Total surrender to a Desi guy who made debut.

 

Hindsight analysis. Would have could have doesnt work.

 

The conditions were not similar to what anybody played in IPL including Vaibhav

[tapandrun]

2 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Vaibhav will get max 1 game in England by the looks of it and all three games in Zimbabwe probably

 

 

Think he will get more game, may be next game.

 

Sanju is nt scoring in addition to this Iyer+verma in mo is not working at all, even if they score they are scoring it slowly. One of sanju or verma will make way for vaibhav.

 

If sanju goes out its 1 jst vaibhav in for sanju but if verma goes out it will be sanju to go 1 down and kishan at 5 

Edited July 3 by tapandrun

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, Lord said:

 

Hindsight analysis. Would have could have doesnt work.

 

The conditions were not similar to what anybody played in IPL including Vaibhav

No excuse not being ablle contain them and chase them.  IPL kinda showed how switched off Indian players were during IPL. Only Shivam Dube looks different when he plays for India. Others remain more or less the same.  Right after world cup  and IPL they probably wouldn't have minded a break. 

 

Januar  NZ 5 T20I series

Febrauary SA 3 T20I series

March world cup T20I

April-May   IPL

Jun-Jul  Ireland & England

 

This is a non stop schedule. There is definitely room to introduce some fresh players into the set up giving break to others.  Break is very very good for players. It did good for many players. Playing non stop , saturating them with T20Is is literally brainless from BCCI. Both series shoudl have never happened. Totally pointless. During women's world cup & Football world cup. Just a ODI series was enough. With that in mind they should have sent a fresh squad to these places.

[vvvslaxman]

It is not just Bumrah, Pandya that need rest. Others also deserve rest.