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Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners


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Mate, you are beginning to sound like wikipedia :)) naah, look at the picture properly, Arjune's action doesnt resemble either. Atleast to me. He has an awkward lift to his left leg which he is only using to balance, not catapult or use for extension. 

There could be 2 or 3 types of bowler who use use their hip muscles. But you know one when you see one.

 

So just to cross check , I watched him on youtube right now. And I stick to my point. He just doesnt use his hip one bit. Infact, he must be one of the very few who just doesnt know how to use his hips in athletics. His body co-ordination looks off.

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15 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Mate, you are beginning to sound like wikipedia :)) naah, look at the picture properly, Arjune's action doesnt resemble either. Atleast to me. He has an awkward lift to his left leg which he is only using to balance, not catapult or use for extension. 

There could be 2 or 3 types of bowler who use use their hip muscles. But you know one when you see one.

 

So just to cross check , I watched him on youtube right now. And I stick to my point. He just doesnt use his hip one bit. Infact, he must be one of the very few who just doesnt know how to use his hips in athletics. His body co-ordination looks off.

Bhai. His left leg gets off the ground quickly and his knee doesn't make big angle that is why he is hip dominant.  That lift you are talking about makes him hip dominant bowler. 

 

Apart from that regarding his body balance, hip-shoulder separation , braced front leg. All these things can only be assessed by proper slo-mo video. Only thing that can be assessed from these videos is that he is a hip dominant bowler. He is lacking hip shoulder separation but he is still a hip dominant bowler.

 

Hip dominant and knee dominant are two different positions of a bowler on landing. In modern fast bowling coaching manual, we categorize fast bowlers in these two categories based on their backfoot landing and angle of the knee.  I am talking about these technicalities as a coach and you are assessing him in layman's terms.

Edited by rkt.india
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Had to watch his video on YouTube, slowed it down and I was right. He is a hip dominant bowler. As a coach, this is the first thing I look for in a bowler. Because unless you know the body  type of a bowler, you can mold him or improve him. 

 

This categorisation of bowlers in two categories is the biggest thing in modern fast bowling coaching.   It has made a huge difference in how fast bowlers are coached. Before this, it was different. Knee dominants and hip dominants cannot be coached same way. Their drills, their workouts are now different which wasn't the case before. 

 

Arjun has good backfoot landing, hip dominant. Not landing on heels is one of the most important things to get off the backfoot quickly and transfer momentum on to the backfoot.

 

 

Screenshot_20200811-224452.png

Edited by rkt.india
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This is his last year's video. Very difficult to asses from just one angle. Need front and side on angle video as well.

 

But the little I can assess from this is it seems his centre of mass (COM) isn't in the right position on landing and is probably falling over, only side on slow mo video can confirm that.  He needs to some drills of four tent pegs to work on that. There also seems to be cross-base alignment.

 

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Here is an example of cross base alignment. There are hosting technical issues here. Cross base alignment will help him swing the ball into the right bander like with Trent bolt who also has cross base alignment. Seems like his landing is too soft.

 

 

Screenshot_20200811-231504~2.png

Screenshot_20200811-231504.png

Edited by rkt.india
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He is also jumping away at the crease instead of staying straight. 

 

Arjun seems to have potential but he needs a good coach, a better coach. Someone like Steffan Jones can make a huge difference in his bowling, improve his technical issues. He is still just 20. Four weeks under Jones will do him world of good.

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Theres a huge difference between Starc's action and Arjun. Starc has a decent leap to gather momentum followed by transferring strength from hips to shoulder with the arch he creates. Arjun doesnt even have a proper leap to use his hips. 

 

So, if Arjun is a bowler who uses his hips to generate pace, I guess that will happen in future. Currently he doesnt show signs of it. And as a coach if you say he is, then perhaps he is using 5% of his potential. In addition, he has a very poor body coordination. His intention could be to use hips, but he is not able to do it because he doesnt seem to be natural athlete. not to me. Just my opinion. Cheers!

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On 7/27/2020 at 8:51 AM, rkt.india said:

Pathan also changed his action due to back injury and could never settle after that. He also changed his grip to get more swing which also led to reduction in his pace.

remember waqar younis making fun of that grip.. he was saying that Pathan was emulating Wasim with that grip but he can never bowl as fast or get as much swing as wasim.. that decision turned out to be a career ending for him along with injuries. 

Edited by Vk1
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1 hour ago, Rightarmfast said:

Theres a huge difference between Starc's action and Arjun. Starc has a decent leap to gather momentum followed by transferring strength from hips to shoulder with the arch he creates. Arjun doesnt even have a proper leap to use his hips. 

 

So, if Arjun is a bowler who uses his hips to generate pace, I guess that will happen in future. Currently he doesnt show signs of it. And as a coach if you say he is, then perhaps he is using 5% of his potential. In addition, he has a very poor body coordination. His intention could be to use hips, but he is not able to do it because he doesnt seem to be natural athlete. not to me. Just my opinion. Cheers!

Bhai hip dominant doesn't mean you are using your hip. Hip dominant is a position decided by your backfoot landing. I didn't say Arjun doesn't have technical issues. He does but his back foot position at the crease makes him a hip dominant bowler.  It has nothing to do with hip position but position of backfoot at the crease.

 

In modern fast bowling coaching, fast bowlers are categorised in two types. In the past, we would have three types side in, front on, semi side on. But now with new research and techniques, new methods, fast bowlers are typed in two categories knee dominant and hip dominant. Look at this pic, in this, his backfoot is almost vertical to the ground on first landing and this makes him a hip dominant bowler. It has nothing to do with how he is using his hips or not. It's just the position that determines what kind of a bowler you are.  

 

He is lacking hip drive because he is not able to separate his hips and shoulders, not able to do the preturn because he jumps away before landing and closes his body after landing.  Second pic shows his closed body after landing.

Screenshot_20200811-224452~2.png

Edited by rkt.india
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Also, one doesn't need to be a natural athlete to be a good bowler. Likes of Bumrah, Aaron, Bhuvi, Shami, Ishant aren't natural athletes. 

 

It also depends on what his neurotype is. For that, he will have to do neurotyping test created by Christian Thibaudeauh.

Edited by rkt.india
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1 hour ago, Vk1 said:

remember waqar younis making fun of that grip.. he was saying that Pathan was emulating Wasim with that grip but he can never bowl as fast or get as much swing as wasim.. that decision turned out to be a career ending for him along with injuries. 

Yes, he had swing but lost pace and control due to that.

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From Espncricinfo ....

 

IPL 2020: Back in 'full rhythm', Shivam Mavi hopes to make up for lost time

 

Some excerpts ....

 

He hasn't played any competitive cricket since December 2019 because of a stress fracture in his back, and is only just feeling his way back into competitive cricket, just like on that day in 2017. After four months of rehabilitation, he feels fit and ready for the upcoming IPL season in the UAE, where he will have a chance to remind Banton about that delivery; the two are team-mates at Kolkata Knight Riders.

"The IPL being postponed has been a blessing in disguise for me," he said. "Had the IPL happened in April-May, I would have missed my second straight season. I was scheduled to recover only mid-April. Then to cope that kind of bowling workload straightaway may have been tough, so the last four months have given me time to recover, rehabilitate and become stronger."

Mavi felt something was off as he bowled a probing spell in a Ranji Trophy game against Railways in Meerut last December. He felt strain in his back even as he went flat out to finish with figures of 6 for 83 in the match. After the game, he went for a scan that revealed an L1 disc injury. It was another setback. After all, the 21-year-old had felt he had made a complete recovery from another back problem just three months earlier

 

Bhuvi bhaiya teaches you a lot, just the skills he has is amazing," Mavi said. "He only keeps telling me, 'swing is your natural strength'. I feel I have good pace anyway, so I don't worry about that aspect. If I can retain that swing, I can be lethal even at 135 kph. I've honestly never thought about pace. For me, rhythm is most important."

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/29664829/back-full-rhythm-shivam-mavi-hopes-make-lost%3fplatform=amp

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7 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Bhuvi bhaiya teaches you a lot, just the skills he has is amazing," Mavi said. "He only keeps telling me, 'swing is your natural strength'. I feel I have good pace anyway, so I don't worry about that aspect. If I can retain that swing, I can be lethal even at 135 kph. I've honestly never thought about pace. For me, rhythm is most important."

:nervous:

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21 minutes ago, express bowling said:

From Espncricinfo ....

 

IPL 2020: Back in 'full rhythm', Shivam Mavi hopes to make up for lost time

 

Some excerpts ....

 

He hasn't played any competitive cricket since December 2019 because of a stress fracture in his back, and is only just feeling his way back into competitive cricket, just like on that day in 2017. After four months of rehabilitation, he feels fit and ready for the upcoming IPL season in the UAE, where he will have a chance to remind Banton about that delivery; the two are team-mates at Kolkata Knight Riders.

"The IPL being postponed has been a blessing in disguise for me," he said. "Had the IPL happened in April-May, I would have missed my second straight season. I was scheduled to recover only mid-April. Then to cope that kind of bowling workload straightaway may have been tough, so the last four months have given me time to recover, rehabilitate and become stronger."

Mavi felt something was off as he bowled a probing spell in a Ranji Trophy game against Railways in Meerut last December. He felt strain in his back even as he went flat out to finish with figures of 6 for 83 in the match. After the game, he went for a scan that revealed an L1 disc injury. It was another setback. After all, the 21-year-old had felt he had made a complete recovery from another back problem just three months earlier

 

Bhuvi bhaiya teaches you a lot, just the skills he has is amazing," Mavi said. "He only keeps telling me, 'swing is your natural strength'. I feel I have good pace anyway, so I don't worry about that aspect. If I can retain that swing, I can be lethal even at 135 kph. I've honestly never thought about pace. For me, rhythm is most important."

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/29664829/back-full-rhythm-shivam-mavi-hopes-make-lost%3fplatform=amp

Bhuvi bhaiya damaging a prospect,hope he smartly operates like Steyn not like oversmart Mr knuckle kumar

Its quite worrisome to hear that he is not caring about maintaining pace at this age,he seems getting into Khaleel path, coincidentally Bhuvi bhaiya is his franchisee mate as well

We cannot take another loss

Edited by Suhaan
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