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Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners


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Today was the sorta pitch you had to bowl "ugly" as a seamer and restrict the flow of runs. Slower balls, cutters into the surface were more effective. Gleeson, Jordan and Toppley are great at that. 

 

Even during India innings, as the tweet shows, pace off was more effective. Umran's slightly wayward pace-on stuff got smashed. 

 

 

Screenshot_20220711-003023_Chrome.jpg

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13 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Today was the sorta pitch you had to bowl "ugly" as a seamer and restrict the flow of runs. Slower balls, cutters into the surface were more effective. Gleeson, Jordan and Toppley are great at that. 

 

Even during India innings, as the tweet shows, pace off was more effective. Umran's slightly wayward pace-on stuff got smashed. 

 

 

Screenshot_20220711-003023_Chrome.jpg

Topley is a slow ball specialist & all three are quite experienced T20 players.  Umran gave a lot of freebies but that's mostly due to his lengths..  Short of length balls are his weakness.  He should bowl full most of the times as his lines are improving.  Trust his yorkers more like Jordan did. 

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15 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

To be honest, under Rahul's captaincy we saw young and aggressive fast bowlers like RP, Sreesanth who were given multiple opportunities.

Now it seems it was Chappell behind all.

It's same now. Removed Thakur and brought Krishna in LOIs. Brought Umran who is not even ready yet. Our test bowlers are performing, so no need to change much.

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Pat Cummins looks down on pace. Since coming back to test cricket, he has the 2nd highest workload of all international bowlers( Lyon is first) and that's excluding all domestic formats.

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=11;filter=advanced;orderby=overs;spanmin1=16+Mar+2017;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

Edited by Nikhil_cric
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On 7/10/2022 at 4:20 PM, Vk1 said:

Umran should only bowl between 7-17... picking Harshal and no Pandya means Rohits hands were tied.. if Arshdeep had played today instead of Harshal, Umran would have bowled at the right phase

yes harshal and umran cant be in same lineup unless ur playing 4 seamers among which 2 can bowl in PP. Today only avesh was our PP bowler 

 

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5 hours ago, Chakdephatte said:

If results were everything, Kohli is one of the best captains ever.

 

Dravid was a mad scientist as a coach (RR-DD) and captain. One of the finest cricketing brains of his time. But everything doesn't work out immediately, results will be seen after this World T20, or once Kohli is booted out.

Don't say results are overrated,you plan things to get results in your favour

Scrutiny is always based on results,yes Kohli has been the best test captain till date,no dispute there

 

But Mhambrey has failed as a bowling coach ,this so clear to ignore or wait for apt moment to kick him out

Our test bowling has suffered coincidently with him taking the charge

 

 

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1 hour ago, Suhaan said:

Don't say results are overrated,you plan things to get results in your favour

Scrutiny is always based on results,yes Kohli has been the best test captain till date,no dispute there

 

But Mhambrey has failed as a bowling coach ,this so clear to ignore or wait for apt moment to kick him out

Our test bowling has suffered coincidently with him taking the charge

 

This is impossible to believe. No coach plans everything on his own in his first assignment. Mhambrey may not be good but bowlers don't forget to bowl all of a sudden. Bowlers were doing what they were during the last regimes, that's obvious. Shami and Bumrah are old enough, they don't need to be told the stuff every match, in fact, they play their part in planning. Blame should be equal on them. I will make a separate thread about the problems or maybe one already exists. These problems were already there, but yes, Mhambrey failed to address them.

Edited by Chakdephatte
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35 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

This is impossible to believe. No coach plans everything on his own in his first assignment. Mhambrey may not be good but bowlers don't forget to bowl all of a sudden. Bowlers were doing what they were during the last regimes, that's obvious. Shami and Bumrah are old enough, they don't need to be told the stuff every match, in fact, they play their part in planning. Blame should be equal on them. I will make a separate thread about the problems or maybe one already exists. These problems were already there, but yes, Mhambrey failed to address them.

 

Also my question to fasting bowling experts @rkt.india, @MultiB48, @express bowling, @Forward Defence

@Mosher

When did Indian bowlers stop using bouncer as set-up ball. I am pretty sure it's before people even heard about Mhambrey. I remember 2018-19 BGT when they did it regularly. After that, it's a once in a series event as far as i remember. Bumrah in last BGT, Shami stopped long back, Umesh improved his bouncer since that Bangladesh series but hasn't played enough.

Edited by Chakdephatte
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23 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

This is impossible to believe. No coach plans everything on his own in his first assignment. Mhambrey may not be good but bowlers don't forget to bowl all of a sudden. Bowlers were doing what they were during the last regimes, that's obvious. Shami and Bumrah are old enough, they don't need to be told the stuff every match, in fact, they play their part in planning. Blame should be equal on them. I will make a separate thread about the problems or maybe one already exists. These problems were already there, but yes, Mhambrey failed to address them.

Post 2020 they changed their approach. Even in BG series 2021 they bowled some quality bouncers. Since that win they stopped utilising it as a consistent weapon. That's why we lost vs Kiwis (poor selections and poor prep played a role too). Loss vs saffers was down to stupidity by not picking an in form bounce based player. 

Vs England we did do well and used bouncers barring that terrible last match. 

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1 hour ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

This is impossible to believe. No coach plans everything on his own in his first assignment. Mhambrey may not be good but bowlers don't forget to bowl all of a sudden. Bowlers were doing what they were during the last regimes, that's obvious. Shami and Bumrah are old enough, they don't need to be told the stuff every match, in fact, they play their part in planning. Blame should be equal on them. I will make a separate thread about the problems or maybe one already exists. These problems were already there, but yes, Mhambrey failed to address them.

If the problems were already there, then surely it's the failing of the coach for not pointing them out and making the bowlers address them.

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1 hour ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

This is impossible to believe. No coach plans everything on his own in his first assignment. Mhambrey may not be good but bowlers don't forget to bowl all of a sudden. Bowlers were doing what they were during the last regimes, that's obvious. Shami and Bumrah are old enough, they don't need to be told the stuff every match, in fact, they play their part in planning. Blame should be equal on them. I will make a separate thread about the problems or maybe one already exists. These problems were already there, but yes, Mhambrey failed to address them.

How many assignments does he need to perform better ,it has been repeatedly annoying

 

Bumrah,Shami are seasoned campaigners but they are in the middle,most of the times people don't realise what mistakes they are making It's the job of the analyst and coaches to give them some inputs

Bumrah has clearly lost zip,that he had a year before our each bowler is just floating deliveries to extract swing,which is like depending too much on conditions

 

Im not saying bowlers are not to be blamed,bowlers need to share the blame for all the fourth innings failed defences,

But Mhambrey doesn't seem to be ticking boxes,our LOI bowling was pathetic for a while now 

I don't accuse him there

 

Edited by Suhaan
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1 hour ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

Also my question to fasting bowling experts @rkt.india, @MultiB48, @express bowling, @Forward Defence

@Mosher

When did Indian bowlers stop using bouncer as set-up ball. I am pretty sure it's before people even heard about Mhambrey. I remember 2018-19 BGT when they did it regularly. After that, it's a once in a series event as far as i remember. Bumrah in last BGT, Shami stopped long back, Umesh improved his bouncer since that Bangladesh series but hasn't played enough.

 

 

Indians using the bouncer or the rising short ball as a set up delivery ....

 

Shami ...  Did it regularly from 2013 till Australia 2020-21.  His use of the short delivery has significantly reduced after that.

 

Bumrah ... Till Australia 2018-19,  Bumrah used it quite frequently.  Till Australia 2020-21, he used it often enough, especially when the ball was not moving. After that, he has been reluctant to bowl sufficient bouncers / short balls but has bowled them in bursts at specific batsmen and not necessarily as set up deliveries. 

 

Umesh ... His short ball improved during Australia 2017. He has used it often enough after that but not necessarily as a set up delivery. 

 

Siraj ... Due to over use of the cross seamed delivery, his short ball is more hit and miss now. But he has used the bouncer as a set up delivery often enough till now.

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44 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

How many assignments does he need to perform better ,it has been repeatedly annoying

 

Bumrah,Shami are seasoned campaigners but they are in the middle,most of the times people don't realise what mistakes they are making It's the job of the analyst and coaches to give them some inputs

Bumrah has clearly lost zip,that he had a year before our each bowler is just floating deliveries to extract swing,which is like depending too much on conditions

 

Im not saying bowlers are not to be blamed,bowlers need to share the blame for all the fourth innings failed defences,

But Mhambrey doesn't seem to be ticking boxes,our LOI bowling was pathetic for a while now 

I don't accuse him there

 

 

 

Hit the nail on the head.

 

The quicker Indian pacers were basically Fast Seam bowlers. They used to extract a lot of life out of the pitches.

 

Now they are trying to be just Fast swing bowlers and nothing more. They don't want to leverage the vagaries of the pitches any more. They are just floating the ball up for swing and if swing is not available then they are becoming sitting ducks. 

 

Of course, experienced campaigners like Bumrah and Shami must share a lot of blame. But there seems to be no one who is guiding them to be on the right path either. Sometimes this is needed as players get caught up in something they are trying in the middle and miss the big picture.

 

This is where Mhambrey has failed so far. And it seems that his handling of Umran hasn't been that good either. Why is his wonderful run up becoming worse !!

Edited by express bowling
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41 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

His accuracy is down too.

 

Fast bowling is all about rhythm.

 

If the rhythm goes then both pace snd accuracy will be down.

accuracy, pace, runup. sometimes, it feels like it is better if fast bowlers stick to domestics and/or IPL. once they enter nat'l team, they become trundlers

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