Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[express bowling]

56 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

Man looking at Zim bowling,we didn't bowl well against this Pak batting.Should have kept them under 150 .Hope we pull up our socks.

 

 

This is what I was saying after our win against Pak.  Our bowling is below par, especially at the death.  And we are depending too much on Arshdeep to pick wicket upfront in bigger matches. 

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

Major reason for them struggling in these countries have been actually batting

 

i was listening to cricvizpodcast they did mention two things

 

• pak have found less swing in both games 
• balls above 140k have swung less then the ones below 140k 

 

 

 

140+ swinging less isn't a secret. 80-84 mph is the best pace to get swing. The quicker you bowl, less it swings. You need to release the ball to swing. The reason Steyn was so good. He would bowl 130-135 while trying to swing the ball with new ball and 145 when it's not swinging.

Edited October 27, 2022 by rkt.india

[Mariyam]

29 minutes ago, vishalvirsingh said:

All our bowlers bowled well today...sardar , bhuvi and shammi...even both spinners were good. hardik bowled one over ..he looked nippy too.

Arshdeep looked off colour to me. He was sharp in the Pak game.

 

An issue that's generally overlooked: wicket keeping.

Both Shami and Arshdeep would have a wicket more to their name. But DK has been very poor.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Mariyam

[Suhaan]

1 hour ago, vishalvirsingh said:

against india they could manage 158 was a surprise.

 It was an average fielding effort from us that night

Boobie and Arshdeep did give some loose balls later apart from Axar's bonus over

[Suhaan]

11 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

But DK has been very poor.

DK hasn't improved his keeping one bit from 2005,he is the same Dinesh Karthik whom people used to call "man with Iron gloves"

[Vk1]

13 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

Arshdeep looked off colour to me. He was sharp in the Pak game.

 

An issue that's generally overlooked: wicket keeping.

Both Shami and Arshdeep would have a wicket more to their name. But DK has been very poor.

 

 

hopefully DK won't cost us big in knockouts with his keeping

[Suhaan]

28 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

This is what I was saying after our win against Pak.  Our bowling is below par, especially at the death.  And we are depending too much on Arshdeep to pick wicket upfront in bigger matches. 

If only Boobie consistently picked wickets upfront

[Vilander]

9 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

This is what I was saying after our win against Pak.  Our bowling is below par, especially at the death.  And we are depending too much on Arshdeep to pick wicket upfront in bigger matches. 

I saw slow pace deliveries at death that were despatched to six by tail enders ( saheen afrid with a lot of ease. If you had a bumrah or a improved tyagi sen or any of the new opl 145k finds bowling there instead of a trundler they would have been clean bowled. 

[Vilander]

9 hours ago, Suhaan said:

If only Boobie consistently picked wickets upfront

Or stopped bowling pies at the death. 

[Nikhil_cric]

10 hours ago, rkt.india said:

 

140+ swinging less isn't a secret. 80-84 mph is the best pace to get swing. The quicker you bowl, less it swings. You need to release the ball to swing. The reason Steyn was so good. He would bowl 130-135 while trying to swing the ball with new ball and 145 when it's not swinging.

What that podcast said was that there is an even bigger difference than usual when going over the 140 kph mark. 

 

This new batch of kookaburra balls (2021 onwards) is swinging quite a lot upfront especially in October conditions in Australia. 

 

Above 140 kph, the levels of swing are probably similar to the previous batch. 

 

So there is value in cutting down pace and focusing on swing on the PP atleast. 

 

Also, that part about Steyn is wrong. At his absolute peak (2007-2011) , Steyn could swing the kookaburra even in the 140-145 kph region because of the incredible snap imparted by his wrists. 

 

It's what made him such an outlier. 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Nikhil_cric

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

 

 

So there is value in cutting down pace and focusing on swing on the PP atleast. 

 

Ball swings for 3 or 4 overs and not after that.

 

Not throughout PP.

[rkt.india]

7 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

What that podcast said was that there is an even bigger difference than usual when going over the 140 kph mark. 

 

This new batch of kookaburra balls (2021 onwards) is swinging quite a lot upfront especially in October conditions in Australia. 

 

Above 140 kph, the levels of swing are probably similar to the previous batch. 

 

So there is value in cutting down pace and focusing on swing on the PP atleast. 

 

Also, that part about Steyn is wrong. At his absolute peak (2007-2011) , Steyn could swing the kookaburra even in the 140-145 kph region because of the incredible snap imparted by his wrists. 

 

It's what made him such an outlier. 

Wrist Snap doesn't make the ball swing.

[Nikhil_cric]

7 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Ball swings for 3 or 4 overs and not after that.

 

Not throughout PP.

In the India Pakistan match at the MCG, there was swing throughout the first 10 overs just in the PP.  This new kookaburra, given the roght conditions is swinging a lot more than it used to between late 2013 to 2020. 

Obviously it swings more in the first few overs. No denying that.  

[Nikhil_cric]

6 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Wrist Snap doesn't make the ball swing.

When you bowl with an angled seam with the wrist snapping right behind the seam, there will be Magnus effect which moves the ball as well in addition to whatever swing is available. 

This will be directly proportional to the force exerted on the ball. 

 

When measuring swing angle , they don't distinguish how much of the lateral movement is because of swing and how much is because magnus effect. 

 

Steyn swung the ball more than anyone not named Trent Boult and he did at much higher average speeds. Also I don't think he angled the seam as much as Boult does. 

 

So yes, his exceptional wrist execution did make a difference

 

[Suhaan]

30 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

When you bowl with an angled seam with the wrist snapping right behind the seam, there will be Magnus effect which moves the ball as well in addition to whatever swing is available. 

This will be directly proportional to the force exerted on the ball. 

 

When measuring swing angle , they don't distinguish how much of the lateral movement is because of swing and how much is because magnus effect. 

 

Steyn swung the ball more than anyone not named Trent Boult and he did at much higher average speeds. Also I don't think he angled the seam as much as Boult does. 

 

So yes, his exceptional wrist execution did make a difference

 

Not with over spin,may help spinners to get dip and drag

[express bowling]

53 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

In the India Pakistan match at the MCG, there was swing throughout the first 10 overs just in the PP.  This new kookaburra, given the roght conditions is swinging a lot more than it used to between late 2013 to 2020. 

Obviously it swings more in the first few overs. No denying that.  

 

 

That was a rare happening and probably the only match I have seen this happen in recent times.

 

Happened probably due to cloud cover.

[Suhaan]

11 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

Angle makes a big difference,malinga got outswing over 140k due to his action. With bumrah his inswingers are bigger compared to his outswinger,even though both of his releases are good.

Yes, exception few pacers like him
But snap of wrists cause overspin,in case of spinners it dips due to time of flight

 

[Nikhil_cric]

54 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

That was a rare happening and probably the only match I have seen this happen in recent times.

 

Happened probably due to cloud cover.

This T20 World Cup has seen more swing than any T20 World Cup since 2010.

 

In the last 2 years at the Oval, there were 2 ODIs , SL in 2021 and India in 2022. There was more swing in the first 10 overs of these 2 ODIs than any ODI since 2013 at the Oval.

 

Even one of the T20's in England, Bhuvaneshwar and Arshdeep destroyed England with record levels of swing. 

 

This is not a one off. 

[Nikhil_cric]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

 

That was a rare happening and probably the only match I have seen this happen in recent times.

 

Happened probably due to cloud cover.

This T20 World Cup has seen more swing than any T20 World Cup since 2010.

 

In the last 2 years at the Oval, there were 2 ODIs , SL in 2021 and India in 2022. There was more swing in the first 10 overs of these 2 ODIs than any ODI since 2013 at the Oval.

 

Even one of the T20's in England, Bhuvaneshwar and Arshdeep destroyed England with record levels of swing. 

 

This is not a one off. 

 

Check Jarrod Kimber's videos on YouTube about the decline in PP batting in the last 2 years and he talks about the new kookaburra having an extra layer of lacquer 

[Nikhil_cric]

48 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Yes, exception few pacers like him
But snap of wrists cause overspin,in case of spinners it dips due to time of flight

 

Fast bowlers get backspin on the ball not overspin or topspin. 

 

With backspin,  the ball does not dip, it rather floats fuller than a ball without backspin would. But on bouncing I would rear up higher than you expect. 

 

However , an angled seam and putting spin with that angle would have a horizontal component as well.

 

This would create drift with the angle and therefore maximizes lateral movement in the air as well