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Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners


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8 minutes ago, Vilander said:

Fast bowling in T20 in Aus is not a measure, it has to be done in SC heat in test matches, let’s not get carried away. But yes gotta admin Pak is backing its faster bowlers while India is not so credit where due.

Not just about backing. They have more 140 + bowlers ready for T20 international cricket than any other country. 

 

Even Australia and South Africa dobt have that many options 

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13 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Not just about backing. They have more 140 + bowlers ready for T20 international cricket than any other country. 

 

Even Australia and South Africa dobt have that many options 

Backing is needed for any fast bowler, so that he can go ahead and express himself without worrying much of getting dropped.
I agree that most of Indian fast bowlers are more so suited for red ball cricket, while all the T20 experts that we're having are mostly trundlers who bowl variation deliveries as their stock ball. 

But you also will agree that we're reluctant to try our fast bowlers for some reasons. Umran dropped after couple of matches while Tyagi, Mohsin, Kuldeep, Rajvardhan, Nagarkoti all are stuck in the IPL and domestics for one of the other reasons and never moved ahead.

Edited by singhvivek141
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23 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Backing is needed for any fast bowler, so that he can go ahead and express himself without worrying much of getting dropped.
I agree that most of Indian fast bowlers are more so suited for red ball cricket, while all the T20 experts that we're having are mostly trundlers who bowl variation deliveries as their stock ball. 

But you also will agree that we're reluctant to try our fast bowlers for some reasons. Umran dropped after couple of matches while Tyagi, Mohsin, Kuldeep, Rajvardhan, Nagarkoti all are stuck in the IPL and domestics for one of the other reasons and never moved ahead.

It's not even just us.  Australia and South Africa back pace to the hilt and we know that. 

 

Yet, in the last couple of years , Pakistan have bowled more 140 + deliveries in this format than any other . And the gap is massive in 2022 alone.

 

That stat which showed that Pakistani bowlers bowled 43 % of deliveries above 140 kph and the next best is England at 18 % .

 

We can do better than we are doing now by giving quick bowlers the long rope but I don't there is any attack that we can pick and match that high percentage of 140 +. Neither can SA or Australia to be fair. 

 

 

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

It's not even just us.  Australia and South Africa back pace to the hilt and we know that. 

 

Yet, in the last couple of years , Pakistan have bowled more 140 + deliveries in this format than any other . And the gap is massive in 2022 alone.

 

The objective of T20 cricket is not to bowl the highest number of 140 k+ deliveries. 

 

Which is why Australia etc. don't necessarily go for an all quick attack. 

 

Moreover, height and bounce of pacers are very important too.

 

Has Pakistan outperformed other teams ? They haven't.

 

 

25 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

 

That stat which showed that Pakistani bowlers bowled 43 % of deliveries above 140 kph and the next best is England at 18 % .

 

We can do better than we are doing now by giving quick bowlers the long rope but I don't there is any attack that we can pick and match that high percentage of 140 +. Neither can SA or Australia to be fair. 

 

 

If we can develop a pace attack of

 

Bumrah

Umran / Mohsin

Tyagi / Mohsin

Hardik

 

then we can have a good quality and very quick attack with 2 tall pacers too.

 

I like this attack because all these pacers are good T20 bowlers too and not just quick. (  except Umran who is still a Work in progress  ) 

 

 

 

 

Edited by express bowling
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1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

The objective of T20 cricket is not to bowl the highest number of 140 k+ deliveries. 

 

Which is why Australia etc. don't necessarily go for an all quick attack. 

 

Moreover, height and bounce of pacers are very important too.

 

Has Pakistan outperformed other teams ? They haven't.

 

 

 

If we can develop a pace attack of

 

Bumrah

Umran / Mohsin

Tyagi / Mohsin

Hardik

 

then we can have a good quality and very quick attack with 2 tall pacers too.

 

I like this attack because all these pacers are good T20 bowlers too and not just quick. (  except Umran who is still a Work in progress  ) 

 

 

 

 

I never said the objective is to produce a high percentage of 140 + deliveries .

 

Just stated that they do produce and no other nation can at present. 

 

They will even lose to Vatican City tmrw with that attack but they'll do it by bowling the maximum number of 140 + deliveries .

 

1 quality high pace bowler is all that you really need in this format. Anything more is a bonus. Variety and quality are more important imo.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Allowing a weak team like Zimbabwe to score 130 on this fast and bouncy pitch, is a bowling failure on the part of Pakistan. 

 

If not for allrounder Wasim, they would have been handed a bigger defeat. 

 

Frankly speaking, Pakistan is becoming a bad advertisement for 140 k+ bowling in T20s. 

 

 

130 was a good total and should have been chased. 

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15 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

I never said the objective is to produce a high percentage of 140 + deliveries .

 

Just stated that they do produce and no other nation can at present. 

 

They will even lose to Vatican City tmrw with that attack but they'll do it by bowling the maximum number of 140 + deliveries .

 

Other nations CAN produce but they often end up choosing variation bowlers in T20s after choosing 2 quicks.

 

 

15 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

 

1 quality high pace bowler is all that you really need in this format. Anything more is a bonus. Variety and quality are more important imo.

 

 

 

Having 3 or 4  140 k+ pacers is good if they have requisite T20 skills and bounce. Supposedly good trundlers get hit in big matches too.

 

Bounce and seam movement, and the ability to take wickets with them, are very important for pacers.  Otherwise, pacers become innocuous when the ball stops swinging and the death overs have not arrived. 

 

Pakistan had quicker pacers last match but India bounced out atleast 3 Pakistanis and almost did so with another one. While Pak bounced out only SKY.  So, they are not able to utilize pace that well. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

It's not even just us.  Australia and South Africa back pace to the hilt and we know that. 

 

Yet, in the last couple of years , Pakistan have bowled more 140 + deliveries in this format than any other . And the gap is massive in 2022 alone.

 

That stat which showed that Pakistani bowlers bowled 43 % of deliveries above 140 kph and the next best is England at 18 % .

 

We can do better than we are doing now by giving quick bowlers the long rope but I don't there is any attack that we can pick and match that high percentage of 140 +. Neither can SA or Australia to be fair. 

 

 

 

 

 

In Australian Team, Only Starc is there who consistently bowls above 140+, rest all are in 135-143 kph range (welcome to be corrected).
Even in England, Only Wood is the one who consistenly is above 140k...Stokes and Jordan are sometimes in 140's, Archer hasn't played this year. In comparison, Willey, Topley, Curran brothers, Woakes etc are all medium pacers.
For SA also, Rabada's pace has gone down and he isn't the 145-147k pacer which he used to be earlier...amongst rest except Nortje all are below 140k.

In terms of sheer numbers, we can lineup and beat Pakistan in terms of pure pace considering the quantity and quality of resources we have. Umran bowled as fast as 157k in IPL outbowling Nortje, Ferguson who were around 153-154kph...Kartik and Mohsin clocked 151k...Kuldeep was consistently in 143-148 range while likes of Harshit Rana, Nagarkoti, Vaibhav Arora, Simarjeet Singh and Mukesh Choudhary were bowling 135-145kph ...and I am not even considering Umesh, Shami, Siraj, Bumrah who are 138-147kph in terms of pace.

Edited by singhvivek141
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10 hours ago, express bowling said:

Allowing a weak team like Zimbabwe to score 130 on this fast and bouncy pitch, is a bowling failure on the part of Pakistan. 

 

If not for allrounder Wasim, they would have been handed a bigger defeat. 

 

Frankly speaking, Pakistan is becoming a bad advertisement for 140 k+ bowling in T20s. 

 

 

They bowled badly at start but pulled things back, one of their bowlers is clearly unfit 

In Warmup game against england they also bowled bad lengths ............so not surprised today as well. They get excited with extra bounce n bowl wrong lengths

 

Still 130 shud have been chasable , its a batting failure in the end 

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51 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

They bowled badly at start but pulled things back, one of their bowlers is clearly unfit 

In Warmup game against england they also bowled bad lengths ............so not surprised today as well. They get excited with extra bounce n bowl wrong lengths

 

Still 130 shud have been chasable , its a batting failure in the end 

 

 

Pakistani pacers depend a lot on swinging the ball to pick wickets, even the quicker ones. (  Shoaib and Imran were exceptions ).

 

One of the biggest reasons why they generally do poorly in Australia and SA and do well in England and NZ. In the 1992 WC, the ball swung quite a bit.

 

Rauf can pick wickets using bounce and he has looked good. 

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9 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Pakistani pacers depend a lot on swinging the ball to pick wickets, even the quicker ones. (  Shoaib and Imran were exceptions ).

 

One of the biggest reasons why they generally do poorly in Australia and SA and do well in England and NZ. In the 1992 WC, the ball swung quite a bit.

 

Rauf can pick wickets using bounce and he has looked good. 

 

Major reason for them struggling in these countries have been actually batting

 

i was listening to cricvizpodcast they did mention two things

 

  • pak have found less swing in both games 
  • balls above 140k have swung less then the ones below 140k 

 

 

Edited by Ankit_sharma03
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2 hours ago, express bowling said:

Allowing a weak team like Zimbabwe to score 130 on this fast and bouncy pitch, is a bowling failure on the part of Pakistan. 

 

If not for allrounder Wasim, they would have been handed a bigger defeat. 

 

Frankly speaking, Pakistan is becoming a bad advertisement for 140 k+ bowling in T20s. 

 

 

still brother , it was Pak batting that flopped miserably.

 

Pak bowlers did a fair JOB in keeping them at 130.  it was helpful to bowlers for first 8 overs only...i saw highlights. 

it clearly showed that if rizwan and babar are out, Pak batting finds it difficult to chase even small scores.

i would say pak batting choked......

against india they could manage 158 was a surprise.

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