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Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners


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9 hours ago, rkt.india said:

I don't disregard Chahar, Bhubi. They are decent bowlers, just won't win you big tournaments. Chahar has fitness issues too. You need an attack with combination of pace and swing bowlers.

decent ?? Bhuvi numbers are literally outstanding in most areas of t20 . Main uske stats pe bas uska naam badal ke Kuldeep sen rakh du na legend declare ho jayega wo 

 

This is something that people wont accept no matter what, Rabada numbers are so middling in this format again no one will accept , Hazelwood-starc numbers against top sides take a serious hit yet bhuvi will be called minnow basher. Of course its pace bias 

 

So does chahar get disregarded for his lack of fitness ?? No , its coz he lacks pace . 

 

1st thing u need bowlers who understand this format , then u need to create a variety in bowling attack among all . This pace/swing/seam/bounce/slower one all are weapons but at the end execution matters. We keep talking about these young bowlers skill set , i agree they have but jaake ye bhi dekho na ki execution kaisi hai . 

Im all of having variety in attack and having bowlers for condition but if you dont know how to bowl in this format conditions wont turn bad bowling into good .

 

 

Pakistan bowlers with all skillset yet when they lacked in execution in 2 overs vs Zimb , Zimb was off to fiery start. Infact in most of their recent games its opp bowlers with less pace who have done better then their seamers and im talking about India-SL 

Starc has everything but has been a struggle in t20 coz he doesnt play this format much be it domestic , league or much international . Hence the format has evolved so much but he hasnt and has been a struggle for long. 

Cummins have all the skillset but again hasnt cracked the format 

 

U need bowlers 1st who understand how to bowl in this format. This format has evolved a lot now so its just not limited to pace anymore . 

I wud have loved if we had someone with pace who can bowl hard length but unfortunately we dont and the ones who can do that role are either below avg in the format or very very very raw.  If and when ready ill have kuldeep sen name 1st but till then its just not realistic ,neither do i endorse having bowlers who are below avg in the format. Rather get beaten with your best then someone struggling 

 

Edited by Ankit_sharma03
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30 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

I dont think anyone will have a problem with someone skilled and someone who has contol , i mean no one has a problem with bumrah no one

Why do u guys i think i have a problem pace ?? I dont - i love archer , bumrah , shaheen , rauf and current wood. 

 

Everyone likes a high quality finished product. 

 

But, in most cases, high quality quicks are not created overnight.

 

One has to accept the pain of some indifferent performances before a high quality finished product is created. 

 

In India, we usually want low ceiling and high floor players .... who basically will rarely be very poor but will not have a stellar career either.

 

Basically safe bowlers. 

 

Bumrah is one of those rare pacers who had the accuracy of a line and length medium pacer and the pace and bounce of a fiery fast bowler, right from the start of his career. 

 

So, he progressed through the ranks. Won't happen in case of most other fast bowlers. 

 

 

 

30 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

Why do u people think trundler means always a bad bowler ?? Or cant see the specific bowler being talked about. Nobody here talked about getting unadkat . I just hate the disregard guys like bhuvi-chahar get just coz they lack pace. Ffs they get the job and thats what matters. 

 

 

 

Yes, Bhuvi gets the job done ... but I strongly believe that a Quick pacer with T20 skills will do the job much better and be a much more proficient wicket taker. 

 

 

Edited by express bowling
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22 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

  • Reason for Pakistan defeat is mostly batting - pak batsman cant play pace n bounce in Aus and its not this generation they havent enjoyed Aussie conditions ever 
  • About bowling they did get their lengths wrong in 1st 2 overs vs Zimb - but thats baal ki khaal nikalana . Although this cud have hurted more if they wud have faced better sides like England or Aus in those conditions coz they wont crumble like Zimb 
  • Not having a seam bowling all rounder ,subcontinent men Shadab-nawaz are so effective that 6th bowler doesnt get tested much and if it does guys like Itfikhar and khushdil take care of it but tht wont happen in Aus 
  • Shaheen is clearly not match fit 

And if u start digging deep in stats ill mention same thing again our bowlers may lack pace but somehow they have ended up performing better then Pak bowler all 3 last games (including last 2 game of asia cup) . Even SL seamers did better then Pakistan in Asia cup. Somehow pakistan has to find where do they end up leaking more runs then opp fast bowlers despite having all pace and skill and on most occasion even falling short on wkts . 

Pakistani batsmen were always gonna struggle at mcg and perth, but they have choked both the games despite playing an unfit premier bowler i still dont think the team is as bad as it looks on the points table and wont be surprised if they win the next three.

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8 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

decent ?? Bhuvi numbers are literally outstanding in most areas of t20 . Main uske stats pe bas uska naam badal ke Kuldeep sen rakh du na legend declare ho jayega wo 

 

This is something that people wont accept no matter what, Rabada numbers are so middling in this format again no one will accept , Hazelwood-starc numbers against top sides take a serious hit yet bhuvi will be called minnow basher. Of course its pace bias 

 

So does chahar get disregarded for his lack of fitness ?? No , its coz he lacks pace . 

 

1st thing u need bowlers who understand this format , then u need to create a variety in bowling attack among all . This pace/swing/seam/bounce/slower one all are weapons but at the end execution matters. We keep talking about these young bowlers skill set , i agree they have but jaake ye bhi dekho na ki execution kaisi hai . 

Im all of having variety in attack and having bowlers for condition but if you dont know how to bowl in this format conditions wont turn bad bowling into good .

 

 

Pakistan bowlers with all skillset yet when they lacked in execution in 2 overs vs Zimb , Zimb was off to fiery start. Infact in most of their recent games its opp bowlers with less pace who have done better then their seamers and im talking about India-SL 

Starc has everything but has been a struggle in t20 coz he doesnt play this format much be it domestic , league or much international . Hence the format has evolved so much but he hasnt and has been a struggle for long. 

Cummins have all the skillset but again hasnt cracked the format 

 

U need bowlers 1st who understand how to bowl in this format. This format has evolved a lot now so its just not limited to pace anymore . 

I wud have loved if we had someone with pace who can bowl hard length but unfortunately we dont and the ones who can do that role are either below avg in the format or very very very raw.  If and when ready ill have kuldeep sen name 1st but till then its just not realistic ,neither do i endorse having bowlers who are below avg in the format. Rather get beaten with your best then someone struggling 

 

I always considered bhubi one of the best t20 bowlers because of his good ER. He is probably the best defensive bowler going around in T20s. But in T20 cricket, spinners need to be defensive, pacers need to be aggressive at least in first 15 overs.

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9 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Everyone likes a high quality finished product. 

 

But, in most cases, high quality quicks are not created overnight.

 

They areprep in domestic not in Wcs

Mark wood has been on scene for years and its now he has been getting continous run in t20 coz before he was struggling. Go check how many games he use to get ???

 

9 hours ago, express bowling said:

One has to accept the pain of some indifferent performances before a high quality finished product is created. 

 

That u have to understand that it takes time so dont hurry, let them get ready and then think of a place like Wc

 

See at the end teams will think of teams good. If RR didnt back kuldeep at a lower level dont expect Indian team wud just 6 mnths prior to wc

 

9 hours ago, express bowling said:

In India, we usually want low ceiling and high floor players .... who basically will rarely be very poor but will not have a stellar career either.

 

Basically safe bowlers. 

 

Bumrah is one of those rare pacers who had the accuracy of a line and length medium pacer and the pace and bounce of a fiery fast bowler, right from the start of his career. 

 

Nobody has a problem with bumrah , get someone with that control ..............i wont even care if he doesnt pick wkts also then. 

 

 

9 hours ago, express bowling said:

So, he progressed through the ranks. Won't happen in case of most other fast bowlers. 

 

 

Yes, Bhuvi gets the job done ... but I strongly believe that a Quick pacer with T20 skills will do the job much better and be a much more proficient wicket taker. 

 

 

 

We have quick bowlers with t20 skills but they lack execution as of now which makes those skills irrelevant . 

All this getting ready will make sense for a WC like next one in 2024 coz u have 2 yrs......................between this IPL to Wc we had just 6 months and u cant make such Raw bowlers ready in 6 months

 

So u need to understand it takes time so dont push 

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9 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

Starc is a lefty ,margin of error is less,and Cummins has lost pace .

cummins have always been struggling in t20, nothing new ...........happens every year in IPL too . Guys like Shami , cummins , jadeja are not varying their lengths in this format which is why they have struggled and more so towards the death. Cant be predictable in this format 

 

In t20 its lefties actually who have done better. Starc execution of yorkers have gone down big time which ends up slot balls , he is currently struggling even in PP which is why Aus have stopped bowling him in PP too. Lack of playing this format hasnt made him learn defensive bowling to which has become very important in Wcs now 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

They areprep in domestic not in Wcs

Mark wood has been on scene for years and its now he has been getting continous run in t20 coz before he was struggling. Go check how many games he use to get ???

 

 

That u have to understand that it takes time so dont hurry, let them get ready and then think of a place like Wc

 

See at the end teams will think of teams good. If RR didnt back kuldeep at a lower level dont expect Indian team wud just 6 mnths prior to wc

 

 

Nobody has a problem with bumrah , get someone with that control ..............i wont even care if he doesnt pick wkts also then. 

 

 

 

We have quick bowlers with t20 skills but they lack execution as of now which makes those skills irrelevant . 

All this getting ready will make sense for a WC like next one in 2024 coz u have 2 yrs......................between this IPL to Wc we had just 6 months and u cant make such Raw bowlers ready in 6 months

 

So u need to understand it takes time so dont push 

 

 

When have I wanted a rookie unprepared quick for the World Cup  !!!!

 

 

1)   I talk about trying them out in low key bilateral LOIs. See where they stand.  Mhambrey could have fine tuned their skills by working with them for 4 months.  Pick them only if they look ready after 4 months of hard work before the WC. 

 

 

2)  For the World Cup, I wanted Siraj and Shami in the mix.  

 

In the end they had to take both, which I anyway anticipated, but messed up their preparation by keeping them out of the mix. 

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9 hours ago, rkt.india said:

I always considered bhubi one of the best t20 bowlers because of his good ER. He is probably the best defensive bowler going around in T20s. But in T20 cricket, spinners need to be defensive, pacers need to be aggressive at least in first 15 overs.

In PP he has the 2nd best S/r in world , first is hazelwood whose sample size is small and his numbers change massively against better sides. 

 

I dont think he is defensive bowlers but just not someone who takes wkts in bulk which chahar does. 

 

But with such high totals defensive bowling is as good as any specially when u have guys like Bumrah-ashwin-axar-arshdeep at other end coz even they dont leak easy. Runs has to come from somewhere which is where teams give wkts in bulk. Unfortunately this attack didnt play together and loosing bumrah created a massive hole 

 

As far as spinner vs pacer for defensive role- whoever can do it .

Bhuvi went at 5.5 last game as compare 8 RR of game, 10 runs was the diff right their. Cud have done better but still difference was made 

 

Even PP can be broken in 2 parts 1-4th overs where u need to take wkts and 5-6th where bowlers need to close PP without giving much runs . 

 

Even if he isnt a guy who runs through sides well as of now their aint any other too. U only pick whatever best u have 

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9 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

Length isn't working because pace has gone down ,and starc's Yorkers are always a double edged sword.His style  of bowling was like this ,both in terms of line and length ,either go for runs or get wickets.

 

Starc in earlier career didnt use to leak to, its his execution thats gone now . His skill have gone down and lack of playing this format hasnt let him develop a plan B 

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9 hours ago, the don said:

Pakistani batsmen were always gonna struggle at mcg and perth, but they have choked both the games despite playing an unfit premier bowler i still dont think the team is as bad as it looks on the points table and wont be surprised if they win the next three.

no its not a bad team but Aus conditions are not for them like UAE is not for us . Thoda sa balance off hai but good team in most conditions 

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51 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

I don't disregard Chahar, Bhubi. They are decent bowlers, just won't win you big tournaments. Chahar has fitness issues too. You need an attack with combination of pace and swing bowlers.

What phaast bowlers did we have in 83, or 2007? Sreesanth had the worst economy and average and was benched. Our spinners and Swing bowlers did it for us. if you have quality, you can win with 5 spinners and zero fast bowlers also. 

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9 hours ago, the don said:

Haris Rauf is the best fast bowler in t20s, nobody is ready to have that conversation.

best is bumrah-archer - all phase and somewhat nortje 

then its just phases 

 

PP- Hazelwood, shaheen, bhuvi 

 

After that its wood vs nortje vs Rauf 

  • wood has just performed this yr , also eco is high but man his wkt taking has been bonkers this yrs, absolute bonkers. In wkt taking he wins over both 
  • Nortje- he is actually SA spearhead not rabada . He is an all phase guy and someone whose eco is also good . In Eco he wins over both
  • Rauf is good all around- may not take wkts in PP but doesnt leak runs either. 

 

Bumrah-Archer shud always be 1st 2 names then ur spoiled for choices 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, kruiser said:

What phaast bowlers did we have in 83, or 2007? Sreesanth had the worst economy and average and was benched. Our spinners and Swing bowlers did it for us. if you have quality, you can win with 5 spinners and zero fast bowlers also. 

Sreesanth and RP both were fast bowlers. Sreesanth helped us win with wickets of Hayden and Gilchrist. RP and sreesanth both had 18 wickets combined and sreesanth wasn't benched. He played all the games. 

Edited by rkt.india
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9 hours ago, kruiser said:

if you have quality, you can win with 5 spinners and zero fast bowlers also. 

Totally agree - against right opposition someone shud do it. 

Wont be surprised if SL-Afghan do that in future

 

9 hours ago, kruiser said:

Whatever may be the pace, it is the skills that matter. And fielding to back it up. 

skills and its execution 

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1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Totally agree - against right opposition someone shud do it. 

Wont be surprised if SL-Afghan do that in future

 

skills and its execution 

You know no cricketer is perfect, no matter how good a skill you have, execution will always have issues that's where you need something extra like extra pace to offset the error in execution. 

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9 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Sreesanth and RP both were fast bowlers. Sreesanth helped us win with wickets of Hayden and Gilchrist. RP and sreesanth both had 18 wickets combined and sreesanth wasn't benched. He played all the games. 

one game, he was bad in 80% other games . His career of 10 games just has two good game and one very avg game . 9 out of his 10 games were in SENA. 

In final he leaked at 11 whereas game was under 8 RR 

 

No one shud ever take Sreesanth name when it comes to white ball cricket specially t20. He almost ruined us in 2011 final and 2007 t20 Wc final too . 

1 game men to rahane bhi kya khela tha 2015 Wc against SA 

 

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