Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[Need4Speed]

43 minutes ago, StraightDrive26 said:

Umran was very good yesterday. With little experience he bowled well and took a key wicket. The pitch yesterday was flat as a pancake with boundaries resembling the park next to my house, it is harsh to blame him for going for runs. The last thing we want is to reduce his pace for "accuracy". We have enough bowlers to do that. He just needs to bowl quick and learn the trades from experienced bowlers in the Indian team. Unfortunately yesterday he did not have anyone in the team as Shami was rested. But he did well and I will take 7.4 runs an over on that wicket. Remember Tickner and Duffy went for 76 & 100 respectively. While India was batting I actually thought India will not be able to defend anything under 400, such was the wicket.

Instead of stats padding Chahal if Rohit had given complete overs to Umran..who knows he might have finished with a 3 for at an ER of 6/6.5

[speedracer]

1 hour ago, Need4Speed said:

Haha..he is our Raw Astra..they need to groom him to be Brahmastra..

Umran has it in him..the question is

does the TM/coaching staff has it in them??

They will drop him. That's why stats are misleading. You can't calculate pressure, intimidation factor and fear factor into an equation. Like bumrah even when he doesn't pick wickets, he puts pressure on batsmen who are then forced to attack other bowlers like we saw in bgt. Same with siraj. Other bowlers benefit from this as batsmen will now have no choice but to attack which is a risky option if you have fielders out etc. 

[tapandrun]

Umaran was not particularly bad today, he made a good come back in 2nd over, but understandably given a break for a spinner - Ind was playing 3 spinners and the fear of due is always there, tough 380 is a huge total but Ind nearly lost a week back after scoring 350.

 

I think the problem was today he was neither express nor was he able to stop boundaries-just 1 ball bowled over 150

 

He has to add yorkers into his armoury, he seems to be not using bouncers with a fear to leaking runs. if he is cutting down bouncer he need a good yorker.

 

 

Sundar doe not look like a good options in T20Is and ODis - When power hitting is required. In today's match he was not troubling the LH batters at all.

Edited Wednesday at 01:24 AM by tapandrun

[Adamant]

16 hours ago, speedracer said:

No he should be persisted with regardless. Boobi harshu etc got plenty of chances. Ummy should be given more games and shouldnt be discarded because he can be used as a secret weapon to hurt batsmen.

Did I say we should drop him. 

Are you guys so sensitive that saying that he should improve on the economy front sounds like a abuse to you? 

 

He can play an important part in world cup only if he gets a hold of his eco rate especially the wide of off good length balls which are mercilessly cut to boundaries. 

 

Imagine what would England do to him if they catch him bowling like this. 

Top teams aren't afraid of pace as much as they are of pace + control. 

 

Our fans are really behaving like pakistani fans here, no one can utter a word against their speedster just bcoz he bowls 150.

 

Janaab abhi kuch bhi nahi ukhada Umran ne, thoda sabr karo. 

[Adamant]

21 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

ER has to be considered in the context of the match, pitch and boundary size.

 

We have scored at almost 8 an over in our innings despite faltering in the 2nd half.

 

8 to 8.5 an over is par on this flat pitch and in this small ground.

 

Umran has given away 52 runs from 7 overs at 7.4 runs an over and has dismissed the rampaging Conway.

 

I will take this from anyone, let alone a rookie.

 

I watched him bowl and he bowled a lot of balls wide of off stump, if he does the same ve England or Aus he will be demolished. 

 

The fact that Conway was speeding along and other bowlers got rid of 4 top order bats with a huge target helped his cause. 

 

Sorry, that was in no way a good performance. Especially looking at the way he bowled. 

 

If Bhuvi or Chahar got smashed with 1 wkt to show you and your other chelas would have called them lucky. 

[Adamant]

Before the Umran brigade gets lal riled up  i have always said that - 

There are a total of 3 quality young talents in India as far as fast bowling is concerned 

 

Top Tier 

Kartik Tyagi

 

Second Tier

Prasidh

Umran

 

 

[speedracer]

26 minutes ago, Adamant said:

Did I say we should drop him. 

Are you guys so sensitive that saying that he should improve on the economy front sounds like a abuse to you? 

 

He can play an important part in world cup only if he gets a hold of his eco rate especially the wide of off good length balls which are mercilessly cut to boundaries. 

 

Imagine what would England do to him if they catch him bowling like this. 

Top teams aren't afraid of pace as much as they are of pace + control. 

 

Our fans are really behaving like pakistani fans here, no one can utter a word against their speedster just bcoz he bowls 150.

 

Janaab abhi kuch bhi nahi ukhada Umran ne, thoda sabr karo. 

He is more dangerous than all trundler brigade due to his pace and bounce on flat pattas. He should be persisted with. It's not his fault moron rohit doesn't set the field right for him. Plus he always bowls during the hardest period. Why not open with him. Why bowl hardick and sundar Lel.

[Adamant]

5 minutes ago, speedracer said:

He is more dangerous than all trundler brigade due to his pace and bounce on flat pattas. He should be persisted with. It's not his fault moron rohit doesn't set the field right for him. Plus he always bowls during the hardest period. Why not open with him. Why bowl hardick and sundar Lel.

He is not an opening bowler, as simple as it gets, doesn't move the ball an inch, not his fault though as it's very hard to move the ball at that pace, not everyone can be Akhtar. 

Edited Wednesday at 01:08 PM by Adamant

[Suhaan]

Koolie fans have a desperate hatred towrds youngsters

[Suhaan]

37 minutes ago, Adamant said:

He is not an opening bowler, as simple as it gets, doesn't move the ball an inch, not his fault though as it's very hard to move the ball at that pace, not everyone can be Akhtar. 

You must be watching something else ,he does move the ball

Cricket is never played with fear,you expect everyone to be economical 

He's still learning his art

 

Edited Wednesday at 01:47 PM by Suhaan

[speedracer]

47 minutes ago, Adamant said:

He is not an opening bowler, as simple as it gets, doesn't move the ball an inch, not his fault though as it's very hard to move the ball at that pace, not everyone can be Akhtar. 

He is better than all trundlers though. 

[Need4Speed]

He is doing good withiut even having back of donestic experience..needs to be given consistent runnof 10 matches..playing and dropping doesnt do any good for such youngster

 

England ne toh line and length walo ko bhi bura dhoya tha in semis..so they are no better than him in economy practically..

Edited Wednesday at 03:02 PM by Need4Speed

[Nikhil_cric]

Umran may have a lot of potential but he is not particularly balanced at the crease while trying to get side on and I feel that costs him his line and length. Also not enough snap in his wrists to produce a whole lot of backspin. 

 

In the 3rd T20I, I watched a bit of Arshdeep and he seems to have corrected his alignment issues and is running through the crease in a straight line. Just needs time to adjust to that now .

 

Somebody needs to work with Umran and especially Mavi whose head falls away during delivery so obviously. How the duck is he allowed to bowl like that without being corrected? What are our domestic/IPL coaches doing?

[Need4Speed]

1 hour ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Umran may have a lot of potential but he is not particularly balanced at the crease while trying to get side on and I feel that costs him his line and length. Also not enough snap in his wrists to produce a whole lot of backspin. 

 

In the 3rd T20I, I watched a bit of Arshdeep and he seems to have corrected his alignment issues and is running through the crease in a straight line. Just needs time to adjust to that now .

 

Somebody needs to work with Umran and especially Mavi whose head falls away during delivery so obviously. How the duck is he allowed to bowl like that without being corrected? What are our domestic/IPL coaches doing?

Thats what I dont understand..when ICF members can spot such issues..what the hell these coaching\staff doing..cant they spot and start correcting on such aspects..

they are getting paid so heavily..and doing nothing it seems..unless they are doing it silently..

who fixed Arshdeep's issue..?

[speedracer]

2 hours ago, Need4Speed said:

Thats what I dont understand..when ICF members can spot such issues..what the hell these coaching\staff doing..cant they spot and start correcting on such aspects..

they are getting paid so heavily..and doing nothing it seems..unless they are doing it silently..

who fixed Arshdeep's issue..?

There are many dumb people in positions they shouldn't be in this world. People who aren't qualified for the job dur to nepotism, favouritism etc. So it could explain why they are so ignorant. 

 

There are lot of fools around. Don't overestimate their intelligence. 

 

I work in financial advice/planning. You wouldn't believe how many clients actually have no idea about where their retirment funds are sitting. There are quite a few who don't even know they have multiple superannuation funds they have an account with lol.

Edited Wednesday at 08:43 PM by speedracer

[Mesky99]

8 hours ago, Adamant said:

He is not an opening bowler, as simple as it gets, doesn't move the ball an inch, not his fault though as it's very hard to move the ball at that pace, not everyone can be Akhtar. 

Umran does move the ball, you obviously did not watch the Irani cup game, watch right here. https://www.bcci.tv/videos/5557526/timber-strike-courtesy-umran-maliks-cracking-yorker?tagNames=2022

Bowl angles in and late movement away, umran is a attacking pacer and for someone with such pace his consistency hitting the hard length is terrific, his only issue is his fuller deliveries, he is a skiddy express pacer unlike akthar who had a deceptive action at times out right clear chucking, umran will skid on and may go for runs, the hard length is very important for him.

 

[Texan]

Umran should be given a longer rope. I hope TM doesn't just drop him abruptly. He should not have even been dropped in the earlier games either. They should also try to give him the new ball to see how he performs. He might be able to knock a few wickets early when batsmen are not settled.

 

Umran on his part should also try to add a couple of weapons. He can bowl yorkers but he needs to use them more. At his pace, even low full tosses can be pretty lethal. Also, he should try to add a slower ball to his repertoire as batsmen are trying to predict his pace and play their shots.

 

But nothing good will come out of this if TM doesn't give him the confidence that they have his back. I mean we gave lambu Ishant Sharma such a long rope only because he was lambu and due to that one spell he bowled, so surely, Umran deserves more chances. Umran has consistently picked up crucial wickets in the middle overs. He hasn't had a single ODI so far where he didn't pick a single wicket. In fact, in the 7 games he has played so far, in 5 of those he has picked at least 2 wickets. He deserves to stay.

[Need4Speed]

5 hours ago, Texan said:

Umran should be given a longer rope. I hope TM doesn't just drop him abruptly. He should not have even been dropped in the earlier games either. They should also try to give him the new ball to see how he performs. He might be able to knock a few wickets early when batsmen are not settled.

 

Umran on his part should also try to add a couple of weapons. He can bowl yorkers but he needs to use them more. At his pace, even low full tosses can be pretty lethal. Also, he should try to add a slower ball to his repertoire as batsmen are trying to predict his pace and play their shots.

 

But nothing good will come out of this if TM doesn't give him the confidence that they have his back. I mean we gave lambu Ishant Sharma such a long rope only because he was lambu and due to that one spell he bowled, so surely, Umran deserves more chances. Umran has consistently picked up crucial wickets in the middle overs. He hasn't had a single ODI so far where he didn't pick a single wicket. In fact, in the 7 games he has played so far, in 5 of those he has picked at least 2 wickets. He deserves to stay.

I hope this IPL comes soon and Dale Steyn removes whatever garbage Mhambrey and co fed into his brain and reignite his pace bowlers instincts..

Umran needs a detox from whatever our TM is doing to him..

Edited Thursday at 04:17 AM by Need4Speed

[vishalvirsingh]

second ODI Pitch at Raipur where Indian Pacers got their team at a score under 110 was a green and a challenging Pitch.

i was SURPRISED to note that Gill score 50 not and rohit scored a quick fire 51 off 40 balls- i was delighted to see the HITMAN's form and kind of knew that he will score a 100 soon.

New zealand batsman were not settled and probably are great hitters but they came out to blast Indian bowlers ..in first match bracewell exploited the pitch and mediocricity of INDIAN Pace and Spin attack.

only Siraj and Kuldeep Yadav impressed me and Shammi in the second Match. Shardul did bowl somebad deliveries and batsman became confident against him and then he bowled some sharp balls and thats how he got wickets.

i am worried about UMRAN, he bowls some great balls and some "HIT ME " balls exactly as Umesh YADAV used to do. Umran has to improve. Indian selectors and rohit/hardik need to know that genuine fast bowlers are a gamble - one ball could be a SNORTER and other ball could be a HIT me ball. even SHoaib and Brett lee also used to do that. One has to have Patience with genuine fast bowlers.

why are they backing CHahal, bishnoi is a better bet for odi and T20 , even Rahul chahar is a better option than CHAHAL. why are they selecting MUSCLEMAN CHahal all the time.

[Adamant]

8 hours ago, Mesky99 said:

Umran does move the ball, you obviously did not watch the Irani cup game, watch right here. https://www.bcci.tv/videos/5557526/timber-strike-courtesy-umran-maliks-cracking-yorker?tagNames=2022

Bowl angles in and late movement away, umran is a attacking pacer and for someone with such pace his consistency hitting the hard length is terrific, his only issue is his fuller deliveries, he is a skiddy express pacer unlike akthar who had a deceptive action at times out right clear chucking, umran will skid on and may go for runs, the hard length is very important for him.

 

Show me videos of hik moving the ball in ODIs. Don't care about anything else. 

 

If he moves the ball he would do it in odos too