Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, Kron said:

Himanshu and sakib too

Sakib is long way behind at the moment.

 

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, Kron said:

5 test series man we need 7 bowlers imo.

 

Bumrah

Siraj

Rana

Shami

Thakur for batting / AR ish

Himanshu if possible

Akashdeep

 

I would rotate all of them

Himanshu may not be there.

Mukesh Kumar might creep back in the team. 

[Suhaan]

58 minutes ago, express bowling said:

No realistic chance of Mayank coming back before the Bangladesh series. He may play Duleep Trophy before that. 

 

Will we be stuck with Mukesh, Avesh etc. in  SL  !!

He should leave for SENA and arrange few more tickets for Harshit,Tyagi,Himanshu,Umran

[express bowling]

17 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

He should leave for SENA and

 

 

Mayank isn't match-fit yet.

 

He himself gave an update that he just started bowling full tilt recently.

 

17 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

arrange few more tickets for Harshit,Tyagi,Himanshu,Umran

 

In this age of T20s, express pacers are getting a raw deal all over the world except SA and Pakistan.

[Kron]

Umran doesn't break down in tests so umran can be given a try in A tour. 

 

Tyagi umran should be developed 

 

If they do well in A tour then can play inntest series as well

[Nikhil_cric]

Gus Atkinson's development and management , whether by accident or design , has been excellent. 

 

He is naturally explosive and durable for sure. 

 

But the key has been not playing too much red ball cricket at a young age. 

 

Just like Pat Cummins. 

 

Only 14 first class games until his 26th birthday .

 

Young fast bowlers of genuine pace need intensity not volume .

 

A great model/approach to develop quicks for the long term 

[Kron]

33 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Gus Atkinson's development and management , whether by accident or design , has been excellent. 

 

He is naturally explosive and durable for sure. 

 

But the key has been not playing too much red ball cricket at a young age. 

 

Just like Pat Cummins. 

 

Only 14 first class games until his 26th birthday .

 

Young fast bowlers of genuine pace need intensity not volume .

 

A great model/approach to develop quicks for the long term 

Interesting. 

Back in 80s and 90s they used to play a lot more first class cricket albeit at lower intensity. 

[Suhaan]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Mayank isn't match-fit yet.

 

He himself gave an update that he just started bowling full tilt recently.

 

 

In this age of T20s, express pacers are getting a raw deal all over the world except SA and Pakistan.

But here even in Odis ,only Avesh,Mukesh are considered

Even if they look beyond they don't go any further than Khaleel, Deshpande

[express bowling]

32 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

But here even in Odis ,only Avesh,Mukesh are considered

Even if they look beyond they don't go any further than Khaleel, Deshpande

 

This is a specialty of the Dravid regime with Laxman chipping in on occasions. And Agarkar too has really disappointed with his Zim tour bowler picks. 

 

Kohli / Shastri, Dhoni / Kirsten, Ganguly/ Wright all introduced the quicker pacers of their respective eras.

 

Even Dhoni,  not known for backing pace,  introduced Umesh, Aaron, Shami, Bumrah and the very tall Pankaj Singh.

 

Rohit said that he picked the WC 23 squad and his choice was Bumrah, Shami, Siraj, Hardik, Prasidh. All quicks. 

 

Usually it is when Dravid or Laxman are left in charge with a temporary captain, that we get these all trundler attacks. 

Edited July 11, 2024 by express bowling

[express bowling]

Gus Atkinson was bowling 135 k to 145 k ... average pace of 139 k.  

 

It is really good pace but nothing extraordinary.

 

But the English were talking about his pace every over like he was bowling 145 +. 

 

Usually our commentators don't even mention the pace of our 135 to 145 k pacers even once in a match. 

 

 

[Kron]

51 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

This is a specialty of the Dravid regime with Laxman chipping in on occasions. And Agarkar too has really disappointed with his Zim tour bowler picks. 

 

Kohli / Shastri, Dhoni / Kirsten, Ganguly/ Wright all introduced the quicker pacers of their respective eras.

 

Even Dhoni,  not known for backing pace,  introduced Umesh, Aaron, Shami, Bumrah and the very tall Pankaj Singh.

 

Rohit said that he picked the WC 23 squad and his choice was Bumrah, Shami, Siraj, Hardik, Prasidh. All quicks. 

 

Usually it is when Dravid or Laxman are left in charge with a temporary captain, that we get these all trundler attacks. 

Problem is dravid feels sorry for these guys. They suck him to him to be his friend and then he obliges. 

[tapandrun]

9 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

In our pursuit of having a strong batting lineup until the eighth position, we are making significant compromises in our bowling department.

 

Both Abhishek and Shivam are primarily sixth bowling options, but they are now required to fulfill the quota for the fifth bowler due to the team management's desire for deep batting. As a result, our bowling is suffering.

 

It appears that the team management is not prioritizing the development of all-rounders. They believe that Axar, Pandya, and Washington can cover all the bases at positions six, seven, and eight. Therefore, they are not interested in developing any other options from positions nine to eleven, as Kuldeep, Bumrah, and Arshdeep are expected to fill those roles.

 

This approach create a problem with backups. We went to the T20 World Cup with only three fast bowlers (Bumrah, Arshdeep, and Siraj). Had one of them been injured, we would have been left searching for backups in Avesh and Mukesh. Our pace bowling bench strength is currently quite weak, and our backup options are not up to the mark.

 

What we need now is to strengthen our batting order without compromising our bowling. Deepak Chahar has not been able to regain fitness to play at number eight, Thakur has been inconsistent, and Harshal Patel has not been able to replicate his IPL success at the international level. All of them are now 32-33 years old, by next T20 WC they would be 34-35, far from an ideal scenario.

 

We should consider Harshit Rana, who is 22 years old and has the potential to play effectively for us for the next 10-12 years.

 

The process of creating back-ups have been not properly followed, the like for like replacements approach has created a problem.

Like for like is not a upgrade model but a downgrade model, you are trying to find a lesser version of better player. Say for Bhuvi's replacement was D.Chahar so the approach is not to get better player potentially but get some1 with similar ability, this approach is not trying to get better version but similar version which can compromise on ability.

 

 

Replacements have to be upgrades or high potentials. yes if there is need for stop-gap or change on the fly then bring like for like. Ind's longterm plan is like for like which is creating bench of similar but lesser abilities of the current roster.

 

In t20s teams need bowlers who can bat hit the ball for 4/6, Ind has resources to create multiple teams. Test is different format, Odi is different format and T20 is v.different and fast evolving and changing format.

 

 

Sundar is highly rated by some, not sure that is for test or some other format, but he is not t20 material. Off spin has to come from a pure batter where they will be use only when needed.  Sundar lacks hitting ability to hit 6/4 lacks power to bat at 6/7/8, do not think he has 10 over in him.

 

 

In T20s finding balance between bowling and batting is not possible either they are good batting side or good bowling side. Its not like test or even Odis where just 1 allrounder can balance the things. In t20s teams needs to find multiple players with multiple skills.

2/3 batters who can bowl. 2/3 bowlers who could bat (in terms of hitting 4/6 in last few balls), 1-2 batter who could bat from 1 to 6.

 

RR and Pak found a good bowling line-up template if you donot have mystery or malinga/pathirana (who are pure wkt taker being v.economical).

 

 

 

  

 

  

 

Edited July 11, 2024 by tapandrun

[tapandrun]

9 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

Australia in the first tourney does seem possible...BCCI ain't that brave.

Plus for Aus series...we will have Bumrah, Shami, Siraj playing already...doubt Mayank will get any nod.

 

SL series I have no hopes...Bangladesh series he may play as it's in Oct, unless the fetish for Avesh, Mukesh dies.

 

Australian grounds and pitches are hard and Asian bowlers finds it hard there for their initial tour. 

Do not think Ind will risk Mayank in playing 11 unless he is able to cope-up with conditions really quick in warm-ups or TM really need him.

Think its 100% that he will travel to Aus may be as net bowler or with-in 15 but with v.less chances to give him a game.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 11, 2024 by tapandrun

[rkt.india]

56 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

Australian grounds and pitches are hard and Asian bowlers finds it hard there for their initial tour. 

Do not think Ind will risk Mayank in playing 11 unless he is able to cope-up with conditions really quick in warm-ups or TM really need him.

Think its 100% that he will travel to Aus may be as net bowler or with-in 15 but with v.less chances to give him a game.

 

 

 

 

Mayank currently should be eased out in T20s and then ODIs.  he needs to make his T20 debut asap, on SL tour if possible.

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, tapandrun said:

Australian grounds and pitches are hard and Asian bowlers finds it hard there for their initial tour. 

Do not think Ind will risk Mayank in playing 11 unless he is able to cope-up with conditions really quick in warm-ups or TM really need him.

Think its 100% that he will travel to Aus may be as net bowler or with-in 15 but with v.less chances to give him a game.

 

 

 

 

Yup...it won't happen.

At max, it would end as a repeat of Kartik Tyagi in 2020-21.

Played few warmup games, terrorized batters with his hostile fast bowling.

Then warmed the bench anc carried the drinks, only to be ditched forever.

[Need4Speed]

11 hours ago, Kron said:

Mayank can't even finish 4 overs though bro without breaking down. He is a damn good talent but yea body isn't ready. 

some tuning needed I think..someone was telling that his right leg is very straight so he puts a lot of strain on his lower back and sides..if they are able to tune it slightly so leg also bear some of the pressure..the atleast that kind of injury may reduced..

I am not an expert on this..some others here know better..and I hope the BCCI must have hired some good consultant to fix those minor issues without affecting his natural pace..

[Need4Speed]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

Mayank currently should be eased out in T20s and then ODIs.  he needs to make his T20 debut asap, on SL tour if possible.

To start with..if he can atleast be regular in T20s..and fully fit..I am fine with that..

its tempting to play him in Aus but I dont want him there even there is a slight chance he may get injured again..

If Mayank cant make it to Aus..then take a decision early and groom Harshit Rana for there..

[Need4Speed]

9 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Sakib is long way behind at the moment.

 

They didnt even play him in KKR xi..I was surpised to see that..after his very good performances in their trial matches..but hopefully in next season he will play..lets hope he stays injury free..he can be a good servant for Indian White Ball Cricket due to his death bowling skills..

[Mosher]

Dravid's son looks decent  Tall gets good bounce. 

 

Is he an AR?

 

 

Edited July 11, 2024 by Mosher

[tapandrun]

18 minutes ago, Need4Speed said:

They didnt even play him in KKR xi..I was surpised to see that..after his very good performances in their trial matches..but hopefully in next season he will play..lets hope he stays injury free..he can be a good servant for Indian White Ball Cricket due to his death bowling skills..

Its not common for IPL teams to give new Ind. fast bowler a chance in their 1st season unless there is injury to multiple players and their no other options or team has lost the chance to qualify.

Tyagi sat-out fr GT and played 1 match only and kind of blew his further chances, pace was all over the pace, changed the action again.

 

For ind uncapped player either they have to be leg-spinner or have those t20 kind of bowling variations.