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Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners


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1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

1)  Their pace is 128 to 136 mostly and not 135 to 140

2) In the death overs they bowl full tosses instead of yorkers. Low full tosses work only if quick.

3) The successful T20 pacers like Bumrah or Mslings bowl 140 to 145 or higher and not 135 to 140.

 

 

Looks like on face value the criteria is 1) - Pace between 135-140 kmph (2) - Able to bowl some yorkers in the last overs.  Sometime u donot get what u order.

 

145 kmph is too fast for Ind TM and selectors, faster is comes ever much faster it goes is their moto

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5 hours ago, tapandrun said:

Just looking at what these 2nd string bowlers bring, looks like its kind of data-analytics/ data-driven thing.

Shorter explanation would be slower it comes slower it goes, so all sub 140 kmph bowlers are selected. For bare minimum  pace that would not be easily toyed around by intnl batters would be around 135 kmph where batters will not be able to plant their foot and slog it leg-side. And then add some yorker capabilities.

 

So looking at this there are 2 major factors for selection - (1) - Pace between 135-140 kmph (2) - Able to bowl some yorkers in the last overs.

 

all the bowlers who are selected in absence of top string Ind bowlers fits in this 2 criteria  - Avesh, Mukesh, Singh (additionally he is LAF too) etc

 

 

 

 

We talk about seniority quota in batting but there is a domestic veteran quota in bowling too. It has less to do with what pace they are bowling at imo. 

I wouldn't mind if these bowlers were Chris jordan level with the bat but they're proper tailenders most of them 

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1 hour ago, rollingstoned said:

We talk about seniority quota in batting but there is a domestic veteran quota in bowling too. It has less to do with what pace they are bowling at imo. 

I wouldn't mind if these bowlers were Chris jordan level with the bat but they're proper tailenders most of them 

Once any1 is selected in 15 there will be some kind of priority in Ind its experience and seniority regardless the team combination.

Today Parag had to be dropped as Jaiswal was back and Ind played with 4 openers and a batter who got 100 in last match had to play out of his position because there was some1 with relatively more experience.

 

In this series Ind batting ends at no.6 they could easily add Rana to bowling which strengthen not just bowling but batting too but he is sitting-out because of few relatively more  experience bowlers who cannot contribute with the bat.

 

Bowlers not able to provide anything with bat has been long standing issue with the team and there is no clear cut directives to TM from selectors or some1 sane who can tell then that they need to bring in bowlers who could bat.

 

Imo these low potential tried and failed bowlers are making back to Ind t20 side is just because they are in goldilocks zone of what Ind TM thinks is a perfect pace for t20 bowling  130-140 and able to bowl few yorkers in the end (v.high chances that this is because of some kind of data they got) and as pointed out if they could contribute with bat that would have been gr8 even with that pace but neither can the bat nor they are good fielder they are slowest fielders.

Dube, Sundar, Avesh, Mukesh they all are slow how many slow movers can one t20 side have ??

 

 

 

 

Edited by tapandrun
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58 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

Once any1 is selected in 15 there will be some kind of priority in Ind its experience and seniority regardless the team combination.

Today Parag had to be dropped as Jaiswal was back and Ind played with 4 openers and a batter who got 100 in last match had to play out of his position because there was some1 with relatively more experience.

 

In this series Ind batting ends at no.6 they could easily add Rana to bowling which strengthen not just bowling but batting too but he is sitting-out because of few relatively more  experience bowlers who cannot contribute with the bat.

 

Bowlers not able to provide anything with bat has been long standing issue with the team and there is no clear cut directives to TM from selectors or some1 sane who can tell then that they need to bring in bowlers who could bat.

 

Imo these low potential tried and failed bowlers are making back to Ind t20 side is just because they are in goldilocks zone of what Ind TM thinks is a perfect pace for t20 bowling  130-140 and able to bowl few yorkers in the end (v.high chances that this is because of some kind of data they got) and as pointed out if they could contribute with bat that would have been gr8 even with that pace but neither can the bat nor they are good fielder they are slowest fielders.

Dube, Sundar, Avesh, Mukesh they all are slow how many slow movers can one t20 side have ??

 

In our pursuit of having a strong batting lineup until the eighth position, we are making significant compromises in our bowling department.

 

Both Abhishek and Shivam are primarily sixth bowling options, but they are now required to fulfill the quota for the fifth bowler due to the team management's desire for deep batting. As a result, our bowling is suffering.

 

It appears that the team management is not prioritizing the development of all-rounders. They believe that Axar, Pandya, and Washington can cover all the bases at positions six, seven, and eight. Therefore, they are not interested in developing any other options from positions nine to eleven, as Kuldeep, Bumrah, and Arshdeep are expected to fill those roles.

 

This approach create a problem with backups. We went to the T20 World Cup with only three fast bowlers (Bumrah, Arshdeep, and Siraj). Had one of them been injured, we would have been left searching for backups in Avesh and Mukesh. Our pace bowling bench strength is currently quite weak, and our backup options are not up to the mark.

 

What we need now is to strengthen our batting order without compromising our bowling. Deepak Chahar has not been able to regain fitness to play at number eight, Thakur has been inconsistent, and Harshal Patel has not been able to replicate his IPL success at the international level. All of them are now 32-33 years old, by next T20 WC they would be 34-35, far from an ideal scenario.

 

We should consider Harshit Rana, who is 22 years old and has the potential to play effectively for us for the next 10-12 years.

Edited by singhvivek141
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15 minutes ago, Need4Speed said:

UPDATE on Mayank Yadav: He has started bowling with full run up and intensity in NCA.BCCI is targeting him to play him in Duleep Trophy ..there are also slim chances he may play against Sri Lanka or Bangladesh..

The plan is to make him ready to play against Australia later..

 

Australia in the first tourney does seem possible...BCCI ain't that brave.

Plus for Aus series...we will have Bumrah, Shami, Siraj playing already...doubt Mayank will get any nod.

 

SL series I have no hopes...Bangladesh series he may play as it's in Oct, unless the fetish for Avesh, Mukesh dies.

 

Edited by singhvivek141
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32 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

Australia in the first tourney does seem possible...BCCI ain't that brave.

Plus for Aus series...we will have Bumrah, Shami, Siraj playing already...doubt Mayank will get any nod.

 

SL series I have no hopes...Bangladesh series he may play as it's in Oct, unless the fetish for Avesh, Mukesh dies.

 

5 test series man we need 7 bowlers imo.

 

Bumrah

Siraj

Rana

Shami

Thakur for batting / AR ish

Himanshu if possible

Akashdeep

 

I would rotate all of them

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19 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

Australia in the first tourney does seem possible...BCCI ain't that brave.

Plus for Aus series...we will have Bumrah, Shami, Siraj playing already...doubt Mayank will get any nod.

 

SL series I have no hopes...Bangladesh series he may play as it's in Oct, unless the fetish for Avesh, Mukesh dies.

 

I am also thinking SL is low possibility..Bangladesh may be realistic..against Aus they may play him..as it slong series..so rotation of bowlers is possible..but it also depends upon how much fitness he shows for long formats..may be India A tour of Australia is in pipeline

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16 minutes ago, Kron said:

5 test series man we need 7 bowlers imo.

 

Bumrah

Siraj

Rana

Shami

Thakur for batting / AR ish

Himanshu if possible

Akashdeep

 

I would rotate all of them

Himanshu..is still finding his feet..will take some time for him to come into reckoning..but very good prospect..

I hope Mayank Yadav is fully fit for Test matches and is in the mix..

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28 minutes ago, Need4Speed said:

Himanshu..is still finding his feet..will take some time for him to come into reckoning..but very good prospect..

I hope Mayank Yadav is fully fit for Test matches and is in the mix..

Mayank can't even finish 4 overs though bro without breaking down. He is a damn good talent but yea body isn't ready. 

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17 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

He should leave for SENA and

 

 

Mayank isn't match-fit yet.

 

He himself gave an update that he just started bowling full tilt recently.

 

17 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

arrange few more tickets for Harshit,Tyagi,Himanshu,Umran

 

In this age of T20s, express pacers are getting a raw deal all over the world except SA and Pakistan.

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Gus Atkinson's development and management , whether by accident or design , has been excellent. 

 

He is naturally explosive and durable for sure. 

 

But the key has been not playing too much red ball cricket at a young age. 

 

Just like Pat Cummins. 

 

Only 14 first class games until his 26th birthday .

 

Young fast bowlers of genuine pace need intensity not volume .

 

A great model/approach to develop quicks for the long term 

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