Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[Vilander]

5 hours ago, vishalvirsingh said:

Prasidh ,avesh, shardul seem to be in contention of getting a game for sure.

 

Seems bumrah and ishant are being talked as under performing.

Bumrah is not at his best pace, line and length. 

Ishant is not a solution to future problems.

Avesh and Prasidh who ever is in better form could play.

 

Shammi shardul siraj and one pacer and Ashwin should play OR 4 pacers n hanuma as spin all rounder if it's wet conditions.

Siraj Shammi and prasidh shardul could be an option. Siraj and shardul swing and Shammi and prasidh will create pace n bounce.

 

This has got to be the approach not playing Siraj is freaking sumb

[Jay]

6 hours ago, vishalvirsingh said:

Prasidh ,avesh, shardul seem to be in contention of getting a game for sure.

 

Seems bumrah and ishant are being talked as under performing.

Bumrah is not at his best pace, line and length. 

Ishant is not a solution to future problems.

Avesh and Prasidh who ever is in better form could play.

 

Shammi shardul siraj and one pacer and Ashwin should play OR 4 pacers n hanuma as spin all rounder if it's wet conditions.

Siraj Shammi and prasidh shardul could be an option. Siraj and shardul swing and Shammi and prasidh will create pace n bounce.

 

Vunrah is bowling as fast as ever. He is consistently above 140. He is going through that early umesh yadav phase. 

 

Length is gone right now. He will bounce back unless money and fame gets to him. 

[rkt.india]

On 6/25/2021 at 6:35 PM, New guy said:

249 was NOT a good score on a complete green pitch pitch cloudy and  swinging conditions. No matter how many times you repeat it. Our pace bowlers took 1 wicket in 64 overs in those conditions

 

You say the target was 130, but without conceding the lead of 32, their target would be near 200

I saw the game. Neither it was a complete green pitch nor had a lot of movement. Ball moved a lot only in the first innings of India. 

[express bowling]

I would like this bowling lineup for the first test vs England ....

 

7. Ashwin / Jadeja .... Spinner allrounder 

8. Shardul ... Swing Bowler + Batting ability 

9. Shami ... Fast Bowler

10. Siraj ... Swing Bowler at sharp pace

11. Bumrah .. Fast Bowler

 

....  Siraj is a must. He can swing the ball at pace + is in great form.

....  I think Bumrah will bounce back after the WTC Final humiliation. Want him to play.

.... Shardul as a swing bowler cum lower order batsman will add a lot of value in England. Plus he is a fighter.

....  2 swing bowlers + 2 fast bowlers + 1 spinner will cover all the bases in England.

.... In England and other SENA countries, 4 pacer combination is warranted as it helps keep all the pacers fresh. Unrelenting pressure is applied.

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by express bowling

[ShoonyaSifar]

IF Kohli does decide to drop any of the three senior pacers, he will pick Umesh ahead of Siraj, at least for first couple of tests. Thakur will also keep warming the bench till the series is lost. That's how egoist Kohli-Shastri are 

[vishalvirsingh]

7 hours ago, Jay said:

Vunrah is bowling as fast as ever. He is consistently above 140. He is going through that early umesh yadav phase. 

 

Length is gone right now. He will bounce back unless money and fame gets to him. 

i said he has been told ideal length in English conditions ( nearly full length) and He is still not able to bowl at that length. it is like teaching a boy to do addition and he still carelessly makes mistakes.

i trust that BHARAT MOTTU ARUN would have told ideal bowling length to ISHANT, SHammi and Bumrah but still only ishant bowled the ideal length. in second innings he got hurt and he could only bowl 6 overs and thats why we could not break their partnership.  Ishant has learnt the length after a very very long time.

 

bumrah did bowl the right length in his last 4 to 5 overs and got few snicks too, one pujara  missed to catch.

 

he has one line and length and it seems that he is not flexible enough to change that. shammi's length was also not ideal , but he was beating the batsman almost at will and he was a bit unlucky as some catches of his bowling went to areas where no fielders were available.

boom boom is a phenomenal talent and he will bounce back big time for sure but currently for english conditions , he is not the best bowler, BHUVI and even DEEPAK CHAHAR are better options. 

in ENGLAND, it is not SHEER PACE that Suceeds but Line, length and SWING. even a Sandeep Sharma or bhuv or deepak chahar can take a bucket full of wickets.

i trust bharat arun will change the bowling attack and get Shardul, siraj in the bolwing MIX with SHammi and then we will have a potent attack for these conditions , ishant if fit is also good for english conditions. but SWING GURU BHuvi and his chela DEEPAK CHAHAR should be flown to england and i will not be surprised if such a decision is taken too.

[Jay]

19 minutes ago, vishalvirsingh said:

i said he has been told ideal length in English conditions ( nearly full length) and He is still not able to bowl at that length. it is like teaching a boy to do addition and he still carelessly makes mistakes.

i trust that BHARAT MOTTU ARUN would have told ideal bowling length to ISHANT, SHammi and Bumrah but still only ishant bowled the ideal length. in second innings he got hurt and he could only bowl 6 overs and thats why we could not break their partnership.  Ishant has learnt the length after a very very long time.

 

bumrah did bowl the right length in his last 4 to 5 overs and got few snicks too, one pujara  missed to catch.

 

he has one line and length and it seems that he is not flexible enough to change that. shammi's length was also not ideal , but he was beating the batsman almost at will and he was a bit unlucky as some catches of his bowling went to areas where no fielders were available.

boom boom is a phenomenal talent and he will bounce back big time for sure but currently for english conditions , he is not the best bowler, BHUVI and even DEEPAK CHAHAR are better options. 

in ENGLAND, it is not SHEER PACE that Suceeds but Line, length and SWING. even a Sandeep Sharma or bhuv or deepak chahar can take a bucket full of wickets.

i trust bharat arun will change the bowling attack and get Shardul, siraj in the bolwing MIX with SHammi and then we will have a potent attack for these conditions , ishant if fit is also good for english conditions. but SWING GURU BHuvi and his chela DEEPAK CHAHAR should be flown to england and i will not be surprised if such a decision is taken too.

100% agreed. Booms is a generational talent but he is not a swing bowler. He sucks in swing conditions. Not saying g he can't learn but this is not the time to experiment. But I would have him as an option to clean up tail or bowl as first change using his pace and bounce to hurt opposition batsmen. Rough them up. 

 

He is very similar to Archer in that regard but obviously booms has more potential. 

[vishalvirsingh]

1 hour ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

IF Kohli does decide to drop any of the three senior pacers, he will pick Umesh ahead of Siraj, at least for first couple of tests. Thakur will also keep warming the bench till the series is lost. That's how egoist Kohli-Shastri are 

No dear ..Siraj is 100 % Sure to be in the 11 in the first test for england.

[express bowling]

9 minutes ago, Jay said:

100% agreed. Booms is a generational talent but he is not a swing bowler. He sucks in swing conditions. Not saying g he can't learn but this is not the time to experiment.

 

 

Bumrah was swinging the ball consistently in WI 2019 and England 2018 test series.

[Jay]

5 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Bumrah was swinging the ball consistently in WI 2019 and England 2018 test series.

Agreed. But for some reason he has lost it now hey? Hopefully he can get It back. I truly hope so. He is a generational  talent. 

[vishalvirsingh]

3 hours ago, express bowling said:

I would like this bowling lineup for the first test vs England ....

 

7. Ashwin / Jadeja .... Spinner allrounder 

8. Shardul ... Swing Bowler + Batting ability 

9. Shami ... Fast Bowler

10. Siraj ... Swing Bowler at sharp pace

11. Bumrah .. Fast Bowler

 

....  Siraj is a must. He can swing the ball at pace + is in great form.

....  I think Bumrah will bounce back after the WTC Final humiliation. Want him to play.

.... Shardul as a swing bowler cum lower order batsman will add a lot of value in England. Plus he is a fighter.

....  2 swing bowlers + 2 fast bowlers + 1 spinner will cover all the bases in England.

.... In England and other SENA countries, 4 pacer combination is warranted as it helps keep all the pacers fresh. Unrelenting pressure is applied.

 

NO BUmrah in english wet /swinging conditions, he needs time to bounce back and he is not the best 3 or 4 fast bowlers that india have in swinging /southampton type conditions, if conditions are hot boom can be played.

i would prefer BHuvi or chahar but if they are not available , i will prefer Prasidh or Avesh Khan or even Umesh ahead of ISHANT as Ishant is very good but is at a retiring age and has some fitness issues now- if he is fighting fit , i am good wth ishant.

 

Some one said that SHAMMI cannot bowl more than 6 to 7 over spell and he requires some rest to come back for the second spell. shammi is Most important so he will be in the 11. but we need to get other pacers who can bowl even 8 over spells at full speed if required.

 

Shardul swings and I suppose he has improved his batting so he has to play. Siraj and Shammi are our best pacers so they have to play. 4th fast bowler can be a High energy Prasidh or Avesh or Umesh Yadav.

for WET and Rainy conditions , only ashwin as spinner is good enough or even he can be replaced by Hanuma VIHARI as batsman cum offspinner.

select your team as per the conditions that are offered though ASHWIN IS Pure gold, if he is played , he will always be an asset. 

But it is wise to select a pacer in wet and swinging conditions.

[express bowling]

31 minutes ago, vishalvirsingh said:

i said he has been told ideal length in English conditions ( nearly full length) and He is still not able to bowl at that length. it is like teaching a boy to do addition and he still carelessly makes mistakes.

i trust that BHARAT MOTTU ARUN would have told ideal bowling length to ISHANT, SHammi and Bumrah but still only ishant bowled the ideal length. in second innings he got hurt and he could only bowl 6 overs and thats why we could not break their partnership.  Ishant has learnt the length after a very very long time.

 

bumrah did bowl the right length in his last 4 to 5 overs and got few snicks too, one pujara  missed to catch.

 

he has one line and length and it seems that he is not flexible enough to change that. shammi's length was also not ideal , but he was beating the batsman almost at will and he was a bit unlucky as some catches of his bowling went to areas where no fielders were available.

boom boom is a phenomenal talent and he will bounce back big time for sure but currently for english conditions , he is not the best bowler,

 

 

Check out Jamieson's pitch map. He bowled even shorter than Bumrah did. If you see Boult's pitch map, he bowled similar lengths as Bumrah.

 

It is not just about bowling everything full or fullish 

 

The main thing that demarcated NZ seamers from Indian pacers is ... the NZ seamers were trying to set up batsmen while ours did not.

Bowling a couple of deliveries back of a length and then bowling a fuller one ... or moving a couple away and then bringing one back in. 

 

Our pacers should bowl with more intent and according to specific plans ... and they will do well.

 

This is why I want Siraj, who is currently a master of setting up batsmen.

[Jay]

1 minute ago, vishalvirsingh said:

NO BUmrah in english wet /swinging conditions, he needs time to bounce back and he is not the best 3 or 4 fast bowlers that india have in swinging /southampton type conditions, if conditions are hot boom can be played.

i would prefer BHuvi or chahar but if they are not available , i will prefer Prasidh or Avesh Khan or even Umesh ahead of ISHANT as Ishant is very good but is at a retiring age and has some fitness issues now- if he is fighting fit , i am good wth ishant.

 

Some one said that SHAMMI cannot bowl more than 6 to 7 over spell and he requires some rest to come back for the second spell. shammi is Most important so he will be in the 11. but we need to get other pacers who can bowl even 8 over spells at full speed if required.

 

Shardul swings and I suppose he has improved his batting so he has to play. Siraj and Shammi are our best pacers so they have to play. 4th fast bowler can be a High energy Prasidh or Avesh or Umesh Yadav.

for WET and Rainy conditions , only ashwin as spinner is good enough or even he can be replaced by Hanuma VIHARI as batsman cum offspinner.

select your team as per the conditions that are offered though ASHWIN IS Pure gold, if he is played , he will always be an asset. 

But it is wise to select a pacer in wet and swinging conditions.

Man ashwin's record vs stokes, Warner and lefty greats in general is impeccable. Just unbelievable. 

[express bowling]

7 minutes ago, vishalvirsingh said:

NO BUmrah in english wet /swinging conditions, he needs time to bounce back and he is not the best 3 or 4 fast bowlers that india have in swinging /southampton type conditions, if conditions are hot boom can be played.

 

 

Bumrah was our best pacer in England 2018 tour.

 

Moreover, in June, the ball swings more whereas in August, seam bowlers do well too in England.

 

It will be a fallacy if we try to build a pace attack in August based on conditions in June.

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by express bowling

[vishalvirsingh]

1 minute ago, Jay said:

Man ashwin's record vs stokes, Warner and lefty greats in general is impeccable. Just unbelievable. 

exactly that's why i expect england to prepare conditions that ensure ash fails. if ash gets a little bit help, he will destroy england batting line up in 15 to 20 overs. He and Australian off spinner and RASHID are the 3 BEST SPINNERS in the WORLD.

 

England will ensure that Conditions do not favour SPIN. CURATOR would have been given instructions in RED colour underlined. curator would test bowling and spinning multiple times to ensure SPinners hate that PITCH.

 

ash got a few NZ wickets on a wet pitch which had nothing for SPINNERS.

 

ash has nothing to prove now , even BOOM is also a great fast bowler but they dont fit into these conditions.

[vishalvirsingh]

4 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Bumrah was our best pacer in England 2018 tour.

 

Moreover, in June, the ball swings more whereas in August, seam bowlers do well too in England.

 

It will be a fallacy if we try to build a pace attack in August based on conditions in June.

 

my statements are based on the assumption that england will offer southampton type conditions to us in test matches. 

[express bowling]

16 minutes ago, vishalvirsingh said:

my statements are based on the assumption that england will offer southampton type conditions to us in test matches. 

 

 

Ex players were saying that it will be drier in August.

 

And if they give a green top then it will help Shami and Bumrah too.

[Jay]

i dont know why but could n.z just be bumrah's bogey team? he for some reason under performs vs them in tests. Even in odi to a lesser extent. N.z just appear to be these phony bunch of nice guys which doesnt really excite our key players like bumrah. I feel like bumrah and co excel when there is real animosity. 

[Mosher]

Saini is not playing today. India going in with 2 swing bowlers - Bhuvi and Chahar 

[Suhaan]

1 minute ago, Mosher said:

Saini is not playing today. India going in with 2 swing bowlers - Bhuvi and Chahar 

So beautiful