Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[express bowling]

33 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Disagree with this. What Asia Cup and these 2 ODIs have shown is that Ashwin is by far the best finger spinner right now.  Proper wicket taking threat.  He is landing that inswinging slider and turning the ball both ways - proper wicket taking threat. 

 

He is above Jadeja and Axar in the pecking order. 

 

Jadeja hasn't scored at all and his hitting technique is worse than ever.  One fluke boundary to third man doesn't change that. He was looking to rotate strike and when trying to power hit , he was hitting straight to the fielder.

 

Bowling only when better bowlers already broke the game open and when he got hit by Hazlewood, he disappeared only to come back for the last wicket.

 

Cheap wickets don't count and neither do fluke runs.  

 

Ashwin is probably the better hitter at this point.  

 

Thakur has limitations - low release, low pace , poor accuracy, can't bowl with new ball , gives more runs above par at the death than he can ever score with bat,  can only take wickets if wicket is gripping, can't catch or field. 

 

The solution is simple. 

 

If Kuldeep is your best spinner and Ashwin your best false-shot inducing finger spinner,   what is the need for an extra spinner for cover. 

 

If Kuldeep and Ashwin are getting hit, Jadeja will be hidden like yesterday. 

 

Prasidh over Thakur is an obvious call at this point .  

 

But we need another pacer to cover for Jadeja/Axar.

 

Bumrah, Hardik have had back issues in the past. They can't play all games. Shami may have taken a fifer but his speed is not impressive and he doesn't look like he has enough gas in the tank for such a long tournament. 

 

Prasidh also coming back from injury. 

 

So we actually need another pacer to rotate all of them .

 

Ashwin is either back up for Kuldeep if Kuldeep has a niggle and can be played in Chennai/Delhi etc.

 

Also can be played at 8 if a deeper lineup is required. 

 

If we had SKY and Hardik at 6/7, we could have gone even harder and crushed a 420-430 score. 

 

5 pacers + Pandya + Ash + Kuldeep + batters is the way to go. 

 

This defensive idea of playing extra spinner has to stop. If your best 2 spinners or 5 bowlers struggle, the 6th will also struggle .

 

 

 

Jadeja will play. The TM have made it clear.

 

He is playing as a batter who bowls somewhat. And not as a better spinner than Ashwin. Ashwin can't bat at 7. 

 

Jadeja may not be good but there is nothing anyone can do about it at this point. 

[Lord]

39 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Once that carrom/straighter ones land or come out exactly how Ashwin wants..  He is a different beast..  

When an off spinner challenges both edges of the bat he is a different preposition altogether. 

I'll take current Ash over Axar anyday

 

Depends what you want. Axar is the best batter among all options (Axar/Jaddu/Ashwin/Sundar). In bowling I'd say all are roughly equal in a normal game. Here India was defending 400 so Ash could bowl test match stuff. Usually he's pretty defensive even though he has most variations.

[Nikhil_cric]

43 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Jadeja will play. The TM have made it clear.

 

He is playing as a batter who bowls somewhat. And not as a better spinner than Ashwin. Ashwin can't bat at 7. 

 

Jadeja may not be good but there is nothing anyone can do about it at this point. 

These are all hypotheticals.

 

You and I know that Prasidh is not going to replace Thakur either. I thought we were talking about ideal scenario. Even Ashwin is not getting in unless Axar is completely ruled out.

 

 

[express bowling]

54 minutes ago, Mosher said:

Umran was firing rockets in that Ipl season. What happened to him? Sad to see him regress. Hope he comes back stronger. Need someone to take him under wings and guide him. 

 

 

Bro, when Umran was bowling well in IPL 2022, he was primarily targeting the stumps at full pace. 150 k+ release speeds  and very skiddy off the deck meant he was very tough to handle. 

 

When he started playing for India, he was used as an enforcer.  He had to bowl atleast 4 short balls an over.

 

But as we have discussed earlier, he is a short pacer with round arm action and hence a very low release point. And this is not ideal for short ball barrages. The short balls don't rise high enough and he gets hit.

 

If Umran is encouraged to target the stumps at full pace, and use the bouncer as a surprise ball, he will do well again. 

 

I hope a sane mind in the TM realises this.

 

 

[express bowling]

26 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

These are all hypotheticals.

 

You and I know that Prasidh is not going to replace Thakur either. I thought we were talking about ideal scenario. Even Ashwin is not getting in unless Axar is completely ruled out.

 

 

 

There are a lot of talks going on behind the scene about including Prasidh.  There is some chance of this happening. 

 

But no one in the Indian cricket fraternity is suggesting that Jadeja be dropped. 

[Nikhil_cric]

32 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

There are a lot of talks going on behind the scene about including Prasidh.  There is some chance of this happening. 

 

But no one in the Indian cricket fraternity is suggesting that Jadeja be dropped. 

Insider info or?

[tapandrun]

39 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Bro, when Umran was bowling well in IPL 2022, he was primarily targeting the stumps at full pace. 150 k+ release speeds  and very skiddy off the deck meant he was very tough to handle. 

 

When he started playing for India, he was used as an enforcer.  He had to bowl atleast 4 short balls an over.

 

But as we have discussed earlier, he is a short pacer with round arm action and hence a very low release point. And this is not ideal for short ball barrages. The short balls don't rise high enough and he gets hit.

 

If Umran is encouraged to target the stumps at full pace, and use the bouncer as a surprise ball, he will do well again. 

 

I hope a sane mind in the TM realises this.

 

 

 Cutting down pace suggestions are v.common in Ind cricketing circles. They had same suggestion to Umesh as well in his early days.

There is a post match interview of then captain MS who suggested Umesh bowl at lower spectrums.

 

In his second IPL season Umran was v.good, hitting Ind quasi superstars on the helmets making then uncomfortable. Bowling into 150.

With every single match he was upping his top speeds. 

 

He is skiddly over 150kmph, is not easy to play. Should be developed into more potent bowler donot tell him about any other skill tell him bowl fast bowl at stumps or try hitting the batter (toe and head as it was said in older times)

 

Control will come with time , Lee was wayward in his early days, but when it clicked he was a match winner

[Need4Speed]

3 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Bro, when Umran was bowling well in IPL 2022, he was primarily targeting the stumps at full pace. 150 k+ release speeds  and very skiddy off the deck meant he was very tough to handle. 

 

When he started playing for India, he was used as an enforcer.  He had to bowl atleast 4 short balls an over.

 

But as we have discussed earlier, he is a short pacer with round arm action and hence a very low release point. And this is not ideal for short ball barrages. The short balls don't rise high enough and he gets hit.

 

If Umran is encouraged to target the stumps at full pace, and use the bouncer as a surprise ball, he will do well again. 

 

I hope a sane mind in the TM realises this.

 

 

What the loser staff is doing..making all the money and dont understand this

[MK55]

6 hours ago, Suhaan said:

Really love Umran

How I wish ,he comes back with a roar

 

 

Totally mismanaged. 
When it comes to raw pace, he a level above anyone else. It’s not even close. And that’s true also at the international level. 

 

[rkt.india]

8 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

He had the tools...  A genuine express pacer.   He tried to cut down his pace to gain control due to outside pressure & probably his run up as well.   Likes of Shami saying to him pace is not everything & god knows what other feedback he got. 

We wasted him I think. 

 

Only thing he has right now is age on his side...  To make a comeback. 

He could only play because Bumrah and prasidh were injured.

[Vijy]

7 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Bro, when Umran was bowling well in IPL 2022, he was primarily targeting the stumps at full pace. 150 k+ release speeds  and very skiddy off the deck meant he was very tough to handle. 

 

When he started playing for India, he was used as an enforcer.  He had to bowl atleast 4 short balls an over.

 

But as we have discussed earlier, he is a short pacer with round arm action and hence a very low release point. And this is not ideal for short ball barrages. The short balls don't rise high enough and he gets hit.

 

If Umran is encouraged to target the stumps at full pace, and use the bouncer as a surprise ball, he will do well again. 

 

I hope a sane mind in the TM realises this.

 

 

short pacer with round arm should go malinga route. go full and fast, and hopefully learn a good slower ball for deception as well. use bumper (bouncer) occasionally

[express bowling]

7 hours ago, tapandrun said:

 

 

He is skiddly over 150kmph, is not easy to play. Should be developed into more potent bowler donot tell him about any other skill tell him bowl fast bowl at stumps or try hitting the batter (toe and head as it was said in older times)

 

Control will come with time , Lee was wayward in his early days, but when it clicked he was a match winner

 

I don't agree with this approach. Pace becomes the most potent weapon only when it is reasonably well directed and mixed with either bounce or movement or preferably both. 

 

Umran looked so potent in IPL 2022 because he was reasonably accurate at 143 k to 153 k and getting some late indip from time to time too.  

 

He lost accuracy because he was told to intimidate. At his pace, he will naturally intimidate if he does not spray the ball. 

 

Umran should be told to attack the off stump at full pace.  If I were the bowling coach, this is the simple instruction I would give him. 

[Mosher]

ESPNcricinfo understands that with just 13 players around - Mukesh Kumar was called up ahead of the second ODI which Jasprit Bumrah missed - India might be forced to use local first-class players, who are part of the Saurashtra team, to chip in in the field if needed.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/india-axar-patel-shubman-gill-and-shardul-thakur-not-in-rajkot-for-third-odi-vs-australia-1400020

 

What's happening??? 

 

 

[singhvivek141]

27 minutes ago, Mosher said:

ESPNcricinfo understands that with just 13 players around - Mukesh Kumar was called up ahead of the second ODI which Jasprit Bumrah missed - India might be forced to use local first-class players, who are part of the Saurashtra team, to chip in in the field if needed.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/india-axar-patel-shubman-gill-and-shardul-thakur-not-in-rajkot-for-third-odi-vs-australia-1400020

 

What's happening??? 

 

 

Update : some players are down with viral fever.

Edited September 26 by singhvivek141

[Mosher]

1 hour ago, Mosher said:

 

Deleted 

Edited September 26 by Mosher

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, Mosher said:

ESPNcricinfo understands that with just 13 players around - Mukesh Kumar was called up ahead of the second ODI which Jasprit Bumrah missed - India might be forced to use local first-class players, who are part of the Saurashtra team, to chip in in the field if needed.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/india-axar-patel-shubman-gill-and-shardul-thakur-not-in-rajkot-for-third-odi-vs-australia-1400020

 

What's happening??? 

 

 

 

The local guys, who bring their bats and wickets, will get to play. 

 

And they will bat first and go home. 

[Need4Speed]

11 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

I don't agree with this approach. Pace becomes the most potent weapon only when it is reasonably well directed and mixed with either bounce or movement or preferably both. 

 

Umran looked so potent in IPL 2022 because he was reasonably accurate at 143 k to 153 k and getting some late indip from time to time too.  

 

He lost accuracy because he was told to intimidate. At his pace, he will naturally intimidate if he does not spray the ball. 

 

Umran should be told to attack the off stump at full pace.  If I were the bowling coach, this is the simple instruction I would give him. 

ya with his short height..bouncer should just come as a surprise weapon..the express pace he has can get him bowled,lbws easily..he has shown he can bowl accurate bouncers occassionally..if he develops..slight movement..with newer ball..with older his Waqarish action may give him..reverse swing..and plus occassional slight slow ball..will be great..

[Mosher]

23 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

The local guys, who bring their bats and wickets, will get to play. 

 

And they will bat first and go home. 

 

[Lord]

41 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

The local guys, who bring their bats and wickets, will get to play. 

 

And they will bat first and go home. 

 

still better than playing Mukesh Koomar

[tapandrun]

13 hours ago, Mosher said:

ESPNcricinfo understands that with just 13 players around - Mukesh Kumar was called up ahead of the second ODI which Jasprit Bumrah missed - India might be forced to use local first-class players, who are part of the Saurashtra team, to chip in in the field if needed.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/india-axar-patel-shubman-gill-and-shardul-thakur-not-in-rajkot-for-third-odi-vs-australia-1400020

 

What's happening??? 

 

 

Every1 has a personal emergency altogether.  bcci can fly-in players if they want , should not be a big deal.

U can play with 13 players