Raghav_12 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 You know the beautiful thing about H2Hs, they come around to bite you in the backside. Let's see what the Novak-Rafa H2H ends up as. I have a feeling it'll get to a point where the Rafa fans will be squirming because if Nadal is great then Fed due to the H2H, then surely someone else who has a better H2H vs is therefore greater than Nadal? H2H means shitm, it really does. Only slam numbers count. No. Slam numbers are important but at the end just one of the factors in deciding overall greatness. Djokovic is just about half of Nadal's slams but they are not that far in terms of actual standings in greatness. Djokovic should be counted in the same league as Nadal and Federer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketics Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Murray looking good and fresh after his marriage. Looks like all the distraction is gone. Though he will have in his back of his mind that Djoko did not participate in this last week's tournament. Looking forward to this week and then the rolland garros. Brilliant set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bones Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 No. Slam numbers are important but at the end just one of the factors in deciding overall greatness. Djokovic is just about half of Nadal's slams but they are not that far in terms of actual standings in greatness. Djokovic should be counted in the same league as Nadal and Federer. Federer Distance.... Nadal Great Distance..... Djokovic Great Distance.... Everyone else I'm talking about the current era of course. I'm a Novak fan and you guys know it, but I'm happy to accept he is nobody compared to Nadal. Nadal fans should also except his nobody compared to Fed. Nadal needs to win 3 more slams, if he does he is GOAT in my book. If Djokovic wins 9 more slams, which is never happening, he would be GOAT, simple because of who they had to beat for their slams. But ultimately Slam numbers count that's it. Rafa would sacrifice his H2H vs Fed in an instant for 3 more slams. I think you all would as well. So don't for one moment even try to pretend H2H is even a factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bones Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 Djoko-Nadal is 20-23 and 3-9 in majors. Will never ever turn out to be as disastrous as 10-23 with 2-9 in majors. Majors are important' date=' yeah but H2H also is important, especially when it is so skewed in one person's favor. If Federer-Nadal were 15-18 or 14-19 nobody would have made a hue and cry about it, it is just that the margin is so huge and in majors Nadal has owned Federer so badly.[/quote'] Problem with these H2H and I've said it before, a lot of those matches are in RG. Nadal is the one who isn't playing Novak and Fed enough in the finals and semis of other slams. So it's stupid to use H2H as an example. If you want to do that, can we then add an extra point to Djokovic and Fed's scores for all the slams Nadal is getting beaten early on? The difference between Djokovic and Nadal is 6, that's 6 RG matches. Would the score be 3-9 if they had played more at Aus, US or Wimbledon? I doubt it. Hence why H2H are so silly to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I don't know why you should discount performance in RG, Federer too is awesome in SW19 and Djoko is great in Melbourne but that pales in comparison to what Nadal has done in RG.Not Nadal's fault that he is so much more superior to other's on that surface.It is something like discounting Sachin's performance in Sydney(where he averages 100+) and taking other venues thus somehow proving that some X,Y,Z has done better than him in Australia. but we all know that nobody in the last 20-30 years has a record close to Sachin there. And forget RG check this out Grand Slam matches: Nadal, 9–3 Australian Open: Djokovic, 1–0 French Open: Nadal, 6–0 Wimbledon: Tied, 1–1 US Open: Nadal, 2–1 It is tied 3-3 even if you remove RG where he clearly has dominated Djoker http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djokovic%E2%80%93Nadal_rivalry#Analysis Grand Slam matches:Nadal 9-2 Australian Open: Nadal, 3–0 :cantstop: French Open: Nadal, 5–0 Wimbledon: Federer, 2–1 US Open: Have not met Remove RG and it is still 4-2 in Rafa's favor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federer%E2%80%93Nadal_rivalry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bones Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 I don't know why you should discount performance in RG, Federer too is awesome in SW19 and Djoko is great in Melbourne but that pales in comparison to what Nadal has done in RG.Not Nadal's fault that he is so much more superior to other's on that surface.It is something like discounting Sachin's performance in Sydney(where he averages 100+) and taking other venues thus somehow proving that some X,Y,Z has done better than him in Australia. but we all know that nobody in the last 20-30 years has a record close to Sachin there. And forget RG check this out Grand Slam matches: Nadal, 9–3 Australian Open: Djokovic, 1–0 French Open: Nadal, 6–0 Wimbledon: Tied, 1–1 US Open: Nadal, 2–1 It is tied 3-3 even if you remove RG where he clearly has dominated Djoker http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djokovic%E2%80%93Nadal_rivalry#Analysis Grand Slam matches:Nadal 9-2 Australian Open: Nadal, 3–0 :cantstop: French Open: Nadal, 5–0 Wimbledon: Federer, 2–1 US Open: Have not met Remove RG and it is still 4-2 in Rafa's favor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federer%E2%80%93Nadal_rivalry Once again you're missing the point and I hope you're able to get this through your thick skull this time. In both the Djokovic-Nadal H2H and Nadal-Fed H2H, most of Nadal's wins are at RG. It tells us one thing, Nadal has been lucky enough to face Djokovic and Fed there so he can have this positive H2H. But Nadal has always been there in finals for Fed or Novak elsewhere. The H2H stats are so misleading. Novak and Rafa have played 6 matches, half of their slam matches in RG because both are very good on clay. Rafa obviously is way better on that surface. But Djokovic is better on the other surfaces but if he gets to the semis or finals Rafa is either not there at all or he's been knocked out earlier on. So why then use these stupid H2H as examples? Is it Novak's fault that Rafa wasn't good enough to face him in the final of AO this year or Wimbledon last year? Who's to say that 3-9 wouldn't be 5-9? That's why H2H is useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 It indeed isn't Novak/Federer's fault that Nadal wasn't good enough to meet them as many times on other 3 surfaces(especially w.r.t Djoker). Yeah the stats would have been a bit better for Djoker in that case, not equal to Nadal but closer. However the greatness of Nadal is that if he runs deep into the other 3 tourneys he runs Djoker hard(3-3 is the indicator). With Federer it seems Nadal has to only turn up to beat his foe, the domination has been complete. 3 times they have met in Australian Open, 3 times Nadal won, twice very comfortably(once with a blistered hand :cantstop:). With Federer it doesn't matter for Nadal, even Nadal who gets knocked out in 3rd round would beat eventual champion/runner up Federer on most occasions because of the psychological advantage(similar to Anand Kasparov, in the late 90s a first placed in form Anand would quite often lose to the last placed out of sorts Kasparov on many occasions in super tournaments). H2H isn't useless. As someone else pointed it definitely is one of the many criteria in the GOAT debate and in that component of the debate Nadal triumphs Federer convincingly and Djoker only marginally. Majors he has 14, probably he can add 1-3 more so will be almost near Federer when both hang their boots. World Tour Finals,Masters 1000,ATP World Tour 500 series,Davis Cup,Olympic medals, etc also decide who is GOAT. Presently Federer is GOAT in my books but Nadal is very close !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raghav_12 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Federer Distance.... Nadal Great Distance..... Djokovic Great Distance.... Everyone else I'm talking about the current era of course. I'm a Novak fan and you guys know it, but I'm happy to accept he is nobody compared to Nadal. Nadal fans should also except his nobody compared to Fed. Nadal needs to win 3 more slams, if he does he is GOAT in my book. If Djokovic wins 9 more slams, which is never happening, he would be GOAT, simple because of who they had to beat for their slams. But ultimately Slam numbers count that's it. Rafa would sacrifice his H2H vs Fed in an instant for 3 more slams. I think you all would as well. So don't for one moment even try to pretend H2H is even a factor. I don't agree that difference between Djokovic and Nadal is as great as you are making it out to be. You have to take into consideration that Djokovic won all of his grandslams despite presence of Nadal and Federer in them. Djokovic has good number of masters as well which usually has full strength from ATP circuit. If Djoko continues like this (he has won all masters this year he participated) for some more time, he'll edge Federer out as the second best player of this century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adi B Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Federer Distance.... Nadal Great Distance..... Djokovic Great Distance.... Everyone else I'm talking about the current era of course. I'm a Novak fan and you guys know it, but I'm happy to accept he is nobody compared to Nadal. Nadal fans should also except his nobody compared to Fed. Nadal needs to win 3 more slams, if he does he is GOAT in my book. If Djokovic wins 9 more slams, which is never happening, he would be GOAT, simple because of who they had to beat for their slams. But ultimately Slam numbers count that's it. Rafa would sacrifice his H2H vs Fed in an instant for 3 more slams. I think you all would as well. So don't for one moment even try to pretend H2H is even a factor. Nailed it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep1706 Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 You have to take into consideration that Djokovic won all of his grandslams despite presence of Nadal and Federer in them. That is true for Nadal as well. Nadal has played 20 slam finals and on 18 of those occasions he has played Federer or Djokovic in semi/final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelig Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Nishikori is in great form :hmmm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raghav_12 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Rome QFs Djoko - Nishikori Rafa-Wawrinka Federer - Berdych Ferrer - Goffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 For Federer's sake I hope he gets knocked out by Berdych/Nadal goes down to Wawrinka. Another loss at the hands of Rafa will be too much to take for me :(( The so called rivalry is a one way beatdown and worsening the H2H will impact his legacy adversely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumar713 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Nishikori is in great form :hmmm: Believe in Nole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumar713 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 For Federer's sake I hope he gets knocked out by Berdych/Nadal goes down to Wawrinka. Another loss at the hands of Rafa will be too much to take for me :(( The so called rivalry is a one way beatdown and worsening the H2H will impact his legacy adversely. :nervous: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bones Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 Federer and his fans knows that on clay even against an off form Nadal he'll come out 2nd bes vs Nadal, that's not going to change. So I don't think it'll do any of the damage you mention. That said, it is starting to look like gradually Nadal is building momentum. He played very well yesterday vs Isner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raghav_12 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Federer and his fans knows that on clay even against an off form Nadal he'll come out 2nd bes vs Nadal, that's not going to change. So I don't think it'll do any of the damage you mention. That said, it is starting to look like gradually Nadal is building momentum. He played very well yesterday vs Isner. Yes. He did. But he is not consistent enough. That's why he is not going to win RG 15. That is sad reality which Nadal fans should accept well in advance. :(( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 This years french will be rafa, wimbledon federer and us will be nole. Sent from my GT-S5830D using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raghav_12 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 This years french will be rafa, wimbledon federer and us will be nole. Sent from my GT-S5830D using Tapatalk 2 Lol Only third prediction is right. For second prediction you are late by 3-4 years and for first by 1-2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 SW19 this year may be the last real shot Federer has at adding to his majors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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